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Signature: Really Feasible?

bnaflyer

By bnaflyer
in Nashville

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chris holman Town

chris holman

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qaushell,

I was wondering if the reservations for Signature Tower are going as expected or beyond expectations? And just to say that if Tony G sales out the entire building before completion once construction begins like The Viridian, will that affect the market of the future condos he plans to build?

Meaning: will he continue to build affordable condos downtown?

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gaushell Whistle-Stop

gaushell

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qaushell,

I was wondering if the reservations for Signature Tower are going as expected or beyond expectations? And just to say that if Tony G sales out the entire building before completion once construction begins like The Viridian, will that affect the market of the future condos he plans to build?

Meaning: will he continue to build affordable condos downtown?

I don't want to attempt to speak for Tony or his staff. Even if I knew the answer I wouldn't feel comfortable givine out that information.

I can tell you that here in Memphis there a ton of condos selling downtown, but no real high end units (compared to Sig). And we have a lot more units already developed than Nashville. Not many high end units are planned which is market driven - though I know of one that will be awesome (1 Beale).

At any rate, the high end market is by nature a narrow segment.

How any of this impacts future development is to be seen. Will be interesting to watch.

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sleepy Burg

sleepy

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I can tell you that here in Memphis there a ton of condos selling downtown, but no real high end units (compared to Sig). And we have a lot more units already developed than Nashville. Not many high end units are planned which is market driven - though I know of one that will be awesome (1 Beale).

At any rate, the high end market is by nature a narrow segment.

How any of this impacts future development is to be seen. Will be interesting to watch.

I think the penthouse condo at Waterford Place was up for sale for around 2 million awhile back. Don't know if they ever got it.

But you're right, the high-end condos in downtown Memphis presently seem to be $500,000 or so, the Mirabella and places like that. Don't have a clue if One Beale is aiming at Sig Tower prices or not, though I'm sure they'd be happy to get it. :P

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Hankster Town

Hankster

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I count 88 units reserved as of this morning. Two of the town homes on the 59th have been spoken for. Better hurry, they're going fast! :unsure: Where can I find an extra 3 mil?

I just counted 90 as of 8 PM! Yee Hah! That's well over 20% already!

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bnaflyer Whistle-Stop

bnaflyer

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Since I started this topic a while ago, I thought it would be appropriate to update and admit that some of my skepticism of this project has been allayed. As my original post indicated, I am generally skeptical of claims by developers, many of whom at heart are descendants of the carnival promoters of yesterday. I was generally skeptical of this project, which seemed grandiose and implausible. And I believed (and believe) that the Nashville condo market is becoming overheated and is definitely due for a correction.

All that being said, I have talked with people who are a lot more plugged in than I am and believe that this project probably has a 60% chance of actually being built. When I first posted this thread, I would have put the odds at around 20%. The developer still has some major hurdles--the financing requirements of this deal are pretty tight in light of its huge size. If the market corrects before people have ponied up deposits and the final financing has been approved, the project will collapse. But, for what it's worth, I think the odds are it is going forward.

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gusrock1414 Crossroads

gusrock1414

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BNA FLYER,

Don't let all these people on this website convince you that everything is great with the condo market. My fears are somewhat alleviated in that there is pinup demand for urban living downtown. However, signature is just too expensive and I don't see it working out. Just because the condos are reserved, doesn't mean they are bought. I know two or three people that have reserved and are not planning on buying. I do believe there is a lot of demand for the condos 250k-450k bc they are affordable unlike signature. You can make money off of those as investments and if you want to live there. I actually think the cumberland condos for sale are a steal right now.

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jice Burg

jice

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I know two or three people that have reserved and are not planning on buying.

What exactly is going through the heads of people who reserve with no intention of actually buying??? What's the point? Just to have a chance to screw over Tony G., as well as those who actually do have interest in buying?

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Skyscrapergeek Burg

Skyscrapergeek

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What exactly is going through the heads of people who reserve with no intention of actually buying??? What's the point? Just to have a chance to screw over Tony G., as well as those who actually do have interest in buying?

I agree jice. Since we're in a skeptical mood about ST, I have a hard time believing that someone with enough brains to make the necessary cash to put down several thousand on a condo would be stupid enough to give Tony an interest free loan for a few months. I don't "buy" it. :blink::rofl:

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Urban Hiker Crossroads

Urban Hiker

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BNA FLYER,

Don't let all these people on this website convince you that everything is great with the condo market. My fears are somewhat alleviated in that there is pinup demand for urban living downtown. However, signature is just too expensive and I don't see it working out. Just because the condos are reserved, doesn't mean they are bought. I know two or three people that have reserved and are not planning on buying. I do believe there is a lot of demand for the condos 250k-450k bc they are affordable unlike signature. You can make money off of those as investments and if you want to live there. I actually think the cumberland condos for sale are a steal right now.

My uncle's made a ton of money flipping units in Florida and has averaged 3-4 times his deposit amount over the last few years. He's got a unit in ST and has encouraged me to get one too. I wish I had 5 grand to roll the dice.

He has a unit in the new 52 story Trump Tower under construction in Tampa. Most of Trump's units are priced from 700's to $1.8 mil with some of the really big units north of that. What I found most interesting was that his per square foot pricing was about $400-600 per square foot which seems about like Sig T. Doesn't that seem cheap for a Trump condo in Tampa ? Especially considering all the Trump units have private elevators and really nice floorplans. Check out the site at www.trumptowertampa.com

Interestingly, my uncle doesn't think Sig T will fly but he says that for a few grand he's willing to see what happens and hold his spot.

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Hankster Town

Hankster

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Posted

My uncle's made a ton of money flipping units in Florida and has averaged 3-4 times his deposit amount over the last few years. He's got a unit in ST and has encouraged me to get one too. I wish I had 5 grand to roll the dice.

He has a unit in the new 52 story Trump Tower under construction in Tampa. Most of Trump's units are priced from 700's to $1.8 mil with some of the really big units north of that. What I found most interesting was that his per square foot pricing was about $400-600 per square foot which seems about like Sig T. Doesn't that seem cheap for a Trump condo in Tampa ? Especially considering all the Trump units have private elevators and really nice floorplans. Check out the site at www.trumptowertampa.com

Interestingly, my uncle doesn't think Sig T will fly but he says that for a few grand he's willing to see what happens and hold his spot.

I hope that most of the people reserving units in Sig Tower are NOT planning to "flip" their units, but are planning to live in them. This is my greatest concern about this project. If most of these reservations are people planning to "flip", then we are still not getting a true indication of what the real market is for highrise luxury condos in Nashville. I personally have some disdain for people who do this, because it's really the same thing as scalping tickets to a ballgame, but on a much grander scale. All this speculation leads to driving up prices higher and higher until some "bubble bursts". It's a very unhealthy thing, IMO and I wish it were illegal.

Having said that, I welcome you to the forum. It's great fun! (I hope you decide to hold on to your money unless you have any real plans of living there).

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bnaflyer Whistle-Stop

bnaflyer

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My uncle's made a ton of money flipping units in Florida and has averaged 3-4 times his deposit amount over the last few years. He's got a unit in ST and has encouraged me to get one too. I wish I had 5 grand to roll the dice.

Interestingly, my uncle doesn't think Sig T will fly but he says that for a few grand he's willing to see what happens and hold his spot.

When these sorts of stories become common, this is the sign of a market about to collapse. There is no way this kind of speculative frenzy in condo purchasing by people trying to make a quick buck will lead to anything but total financial disaster for people left owning these condos at some point. Mark my word.

Tulip bulbs anyone?

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tistic Unincorporated Area

tistic

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Posted

I personally have some disdain for people who do this, because it's really the same thing as scalping tickets to a ballgame, but on a much grander scale.

Holding signs, just like you see walking to a Titan's game?

"Cheap Condos" :alc: "Need Condos"

I actually differ a bit on the analogy of these investors to smarmy ticket scalpers. IMO, the folks investing, no matter how long they plan to hold onto the property, represent a legitimate part of the demand for the condos. One could argue they're almost like a place holder, getting each condo they own financed until another buyer comes along and they agree on a purchase price.

If anything, they'll drive up the cost for late comers while helping the project get financed in the meantime. Now that assumes, of course, that they actually follow-through on their deposit--if a significant number of investors puts their money down and wind up not buying, that's not good.

But I'm with SSG that these guys know the time value of money and they don't get their capital tied up in a project unless they're serious. While there may have been a sizeable number of folks "Registered" who didn't intend to buy, there probably isn't anybody "Re$erved" who doesn't actually intend to purchase if the building gets built. That's all guesswork on my part, but I feel pretty confident about it.

As for a bubble bursting, last week, former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan gave his ever influential opinion that there is no housing bubble left to burst. He said the housing market has made a soft landing, which really takes a lot of pressure off of developers of all types of housing, including Tony. The banks can relax, the consumers can relax, and the developers can, too. People need to be prudent with their money, but there's apparently no more threat of a big downturn due to overpriced housing that would send a tsunami to take out other projects. :ph34r:

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Jeeper12 Hamlet

Jeeper12

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Posted

When these sorts of stories become common, this is the sign of a market about to collapse. There is no way this kind of speculative frenzy in condo purchasing by people trying to make a quick buck will lead to anything but total financial disaster for people left owning these condos at some point. Mark my word.

Tulip bulbs anyone?

Investors have become a very important part of the food chain in condo development. Most real buyers aren't prepared to make a purchase decision so far in advance and/or put up a significant deposit. So, investors (together with some buyers who are prepared) have allowed projects to get underwritten and financed which gives all real buyers more choices later, albeit at slightly higher (hopefully) prices.

This model breaks down when developers and lenders are slow to raise deposits as investor activity becomes more intense. All the coastal markets that are crashing now are likely to bounce back sooner thanks to 20%-30% deposits. Despite the choppy waters in these markets I'm not aware of a single bank (or developer for that matter) suffering major losses. But a lot of investors are now scrambling to figure out how they're going to carry these condos that they never intended to even close on, let alone hold.

Praskin's uncle may be an opportunist but at least he's got real money in the Trump deal. If that market softens he'll have a harder time walking away from +/- $200k. This provides developers, lenders and the market with an important cushion and puts the risk or a downturn more squarely on the shoulders of the speculators (especially the late comers) which I think is appropriate given their potential rewards.

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