defining the "midwest"

[ShowMeKC]

I greatly disagree on fragmenting the Midwest.

Kansas is in no way Midwestern, it is more similar to Oklahoma, not Missouri, Iowa, or Illinois. I live just miles from Kansas and you can see visually a difference between these two states.

I'm proud to say i'm in the same region as Chicago.

[hood]

Though it borders Lake Superior, I would place Minnesota in with the Great Plains group. It has more in common with that group, and its major urban center isn't associated with the Great Lakes, but rather is essentially the "capital" of the Great Plains region.

Minnesota is the state that is hardest to classify, the trouble with calling it Great Plains is that you'd be lumping Minneapolis/St Paul in with the Great Plains, they really don't fit at all. I guess I would turn to someone who lives in Minnesota and ask them whether the city culture of Minneapolis/St Paul dominates the state or what? But, obviously Minn is geographically Great Plains.

[marathon]

Minnesota is the state that is hardest to classify, the trouble with calling it Great Plains is that you'd be lumping Minneapolis/St Paul in with the Great Plains, they really don't fit at all. I guess I would turn to someone who lives in Minnesota and ask them whether the city culture of Minneapolis/St Paul dominates the state or what? But, obviously Minn is geographically Great Plains.

I live in Minnesota

The northwestern quarter of Minnesota and the eastern half of North Dakota are a single, homogeneous region centered on the Red River Valley. The southern strip south of MSP is essentially indistinguishable from Iowa. The Twin Cities region is heavily linked to the region to its north and west, and is the commercial and cultural hub of the Great Plains. The only part of Minnesota that is closer linked to the Great Lakes is, not surprisingly, the largely decaying northeast section north and east of Duluth.

[Snowguy716]

Though it borders Lake Superior, I would place Minnesota in with the Great Plains group. It has more in common with that group, and its major urban center isn't associated with the Great Lakes, but rather is essentially the "capital" of the Great Plains region.

Minnesota is extremely hard to define. The west and south are dominated by agriculture whether it be dairy farms (in the central/southeast), sugar beets (northwest) or corn/soybeans (everywhere). Therefore, the culture is based on agriculture. These areas tend to be settled by German/Scandinavian heritage, thus we have a massive amount of Lutherans.

In the central/North it is all forest/lake land. This area is dominated by timber industries and tourism. Further east you have the taconite/Iron ore mining industry that dominates Duluth.

Minneapolis, I would say, is not dominated by any one of these things anymore. Minneapolis/St. Paul have a very diversified economy with manufacturing mainstays like 3M and agribusiness like General Mills, but there is also Target, the 2nd largest University in the country (student pop. wise) and plenty of high tech-med. tech development. It's just a diverse, modern city.

SW Prarie Region:

NW Prarie Region:

Far North Peat bogs:

Southeast River region:

Lakes Region:

Boundary Waters:

North Shore:

How can you classify that into one group?

[Phizzy]

How can you classify that into one group?

And, you could ask the same of Michigan and most other states.

[Recchia]

^Wow, I'm amazed at how nice some of those Great Lakes beaches are. They look just like the ocean, just with smaller waves.

[Phizzy]

^Wow, I'm amazed at how nice some of those Great Lakes beaches are. They look just like the ocean, just with smaller waves.

Sometimes the waves are big.

[dimebag1980]

It's the same issue in the South. People love simple categorizations of places which is why you have something called the Midwest, but travel across it and it is quite varied. Some of the most difficult discussions that we have had here at UrbanPlanet is how to divide up the site geographically. Nobody is satisfied. LOL

I'd be fine with slightly more complex characterizations. It is funny how varied the midwest is as you drive across it. It truly is like you're traveling from one region to another, to another.

And as recently as when I joined here, the South was divided into two categories. I didn't have a problem with it, but apparently some people didn't like considering Arkansas a Gulf state for whatever reason.

There really is no good way to do it without adding quite a few more categories.

[AvianKeahi]

Just to add to the confusion...

East of the Rockies in North America, there are only three major biological zones, or "biomes." The only place the three come together is in the Midwest, and specifically, Minnesota. This creates a widely diverse landscape and because of this it is sometimes hard to characterize the Midwest. it is one of the most biologically diverse regions in North America.

Adding to this diversity is the fact that the Upper Midwest is at the intersection of the three major weather systems on North America: The Prevailing Westerlies, the Gulf Coast currents and the Canadian air masses. That's why this region has such extremes in weather.

All in all, this creates a particularly rich ecosystem!

[MJLO]

Kind of wierd, but if you take the five Great lakes states, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, and Wisconsin. Combined they are the largest population center in the country. Although Densitywise, the Mid atlantic, and new england states would take the trophy.

It's just wierd geographically, and even politically when you take Michigan, which has 10 million people, with the state of South Dakota, which doesnt have even a million. And then say they are essentially the same place.

[RustTown]

I don't think population has much to do with it. There are many and better reasons why South Dakota and Michigan feel worlds apart, and it's definitely not just population and location. Like the South, the Midwest, as has been said, has quite a few different sub-regions, but they are all tied together, if only loosely, by the fact that the region was pretty much settled over the same period of time. What we call the Midwest was once the Northwest, and that's where the connection comes from if even the culture and geography varies from state to state.

[dixiecupdrinking]

This reminds of of a part of "The Great Gatsby" where Gatsby vaguely claims to be from a Midwestern family of high stature. When pressed for a more exact location he says "San Francisco."

[MJLO]

I don't think population has much to do with it. There are many and better reasons why South Dakota and Michigan feel worlds apart, and it's definitely not just population and location. Like the South, the Midwest, as has been said, has quite a few different sub-regions, but they are all tied together, if only loosely, by the fact that the region was pretty much settled over the same period of time. What we call the Midwest was once the Northwest, and that's where the connection comes from if even the culture and geography varies from state to state.

I don't know, I'd say people play a big part in it. Places like Michigan, Illinois, and Ohio really are two states in one, The majority of the people in these places live in large densely populated, and concentrated urban centers, and politically control the state. Places Like SD are more uniform in how the people act and think thru-out. While Geographically they are worlds apart. They are also worlds apart ideologically.

[GRDadof3]

Is there a purpose to this whole "define the midwest" thing? Like much of the Country, it's hard to place "labels" on regions or their people, and why do it?

Wow, I'm amazed at how nice some of those Great Lakes beaches are. They look just like the ocean, just with smaller waves.

And there's no nasty "salt getting in your mouth" to contend with. Many people are shocked when they first see Lake Michigan that you can't see the other side.

[JFER1980]

The midwest to me has always been the following states. Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio. Possibly and probably Minnesota. Certainly not Pennsylvania or the Dakotas.

[PghUSA]

If not Pennsylvania then why are the Steelers in the same division as Cleveland and Cinncinnati? Why are the Pirates in the same division as St. Louis, Cincinnati, Chicago, and Milwaukee?

Pittsburgh is as much mid-west as it is east coast IMHO.

[marathon]

The midwest to me has always been the following states. Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio. Possibly and probably Minnesota. Certainly not Pennsylvania or the Dakotas.

The Dakotas are much more midwestern than Ohio.

The Appalachian area of southwest Pennsylvania, southeast Ohio, and most of West Virginia is all fairly indistinguishable, but Pennsylvania is technically in the Northeast, Ohio is technically in the Midwest, and West Virginia is technically in the South.

[PghUSA]

Technically you are correct, Pennsylvania is an "eastcoast" state, but if you define "eastcoast" as those touching the headwaters of the Atlantic (which the Delaware river and bay do) then wouldn't "midwestern" be the area of the nation between the two "great divides"? Historically and demographically speaking humans have defined themselves by what areas they could float to, rivers, lakes and bays were the interstate highways of the era that settled our nation. In fact many railroads, highways and thus interstates and thus air traffic corridors have traced these ancient water thruways. If you consider that Pittsburgh and Buffalo are both at the headwaters of "western" byways. The same way Denver is. Pittsburgh actually touches Cincinnati, St. Louis and Minneapolis all by just floating down river, Philadelphia is several mountain ranges and several more interstate tunnels away. What could be a better classification is the "mountain east" and "mountain east" but even then you have problems. Pittsburgh the city is actually a lot more like Cleveland, Buffalo, Detroit and Cincinnati, as much as it is like Philadelphia and New York. None of those urban centers could geographically be expressed as "mountain east".

I love how a review of "Lucky Numbers" a movie set in Harrisburg and based on a real life Pittsburgh TV station scam in 1980, describes the classic "midwest" feel. How the weatherfront over the eastern great lakes that walloped Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit and Pittsburgh was described last year as the "great midwest storm", how Pittsburgh was the only "eastcoast" city to host the "midwest" FarmAid concert. How many Ohioans use Pittsburgh International airport to fly into and out of midwestern Ohio, I could cite many many more examples. The one thing for sure though is that Pittsburgh is the borderline, wether it is midwest or eastcoast of that line is debatable. Read my signature for another philosphers view on what region Pittsburgh is in.