New England cities

[UrbanLifter]

Of the cities in the poll, Providence by far is more vibrant, upbeat and moving forward. Providence gets my vote.

[HartfordTycoon]

^^Everyone likes Providence. I know, I Know it's fantastic. Sarcasm intended. At least we are still holding at second place. A very distant second.......

Give us a few more years, we are definately on the rise in Hartford, and CT in general. I just had to chime in, I can't let people forget that we're here.

[CtownMikey]

^^I think a real test for both cities will come soon when it is time to fill our downtown condos and apts. when all construction is done. Both retail and residential needs to be full in my understanding for a high rise condo/apt tower to be successful and profitable. Then, will more proposals be made and gone through with?

http://news.tbo.com/news/metro/MGB089OZXIE.html

Just because we build it, doesn't mean they will come

I personally want Hartford AND Providence to succeed for the very obvious reasons of course.

[HartfordTycoon]

^^I think a real test for both cities will come soon when it is time to fill our downtown condos and apts. when all construction is done. Both retail and residential needs to be full in my understanding for a high rise condo/apt tower to be successful and profitable. Then, will more proposals be made and gone through with?

http://news.tbo.com/news/metro/MGB089OZXIE.html

Just because we build it, doesn't mean they will come

I personally want Hartford AND Providence to succeed for the very obvious reasons of course.

At least we don't have to worry about anything close to the oversaturation that Tampa faces in the above article. 30 Development currently planned for the area. I could have told them that was overkill. I hope we do not make the same mistakes, we should only build what can be absorbed easily.

[runawayjim]

just saw this one iwth the whole re-org thing...

first, someone mentioned boston... why would boston be the best new england city? i don't necessarily think so, in fact, i'd pick providence over boston any day. spend a major amount of time in each city... providence is smaller and doesn't have everything that boston does, but in a way, it has more.

re: fall river... the only reason i knew about it before i moved to providence 2 years ago is because i was in the boy scouts and we camped out on the battleship there. now that i live here, i hear it's a dump.

re: heroin from northampton... i have a feeling most of new england is supplied by willimantic. there was a HUGE writeup about willi in the hartford courant about 2 years ago or so mentioning the drugs and prostitution. willimantic is actually a beautiful city if you look past all that stuff. like many of the towns in RI and MA and CT, it fell when the mills and manufacturing left. it has this huge textile mill on the river that was converted into apartments i believe (and i'm pretty sure that, unlike RI, they're lower cost housing). and main street has some funky shops and restaurants. they converted an old post office into a brewpub/restaurant (kind of like the trinity in providence, but bigger). they've been cleaning it up. i haven't been back there in quite some time. i might have to visit sometime. i went to uconn, so i spent some time in willi as well. i've always sort of liked it.

i'm surprised at the selection of cities here though... why no burlington or new haven or worcester? some of them are quite random (fall river?!?!). anyways, i obviously voted for providence. hartford doesn't have much going for it to make it a terribly great place to want to live, fall river's fall river. manchester's in new hampshire and i don't really have any desire to live there (and i've heard from people that it's expensive to own up there). and springfield is really close to hartford, but i've never spent much time there.

i am not surprised by the metro area numbers. it's really dense right around providence and you don't have to get too far outside of hartford for it to really spread out. and springfield is a city in its own right, why combine it with hartford? if you're gonna do that, then combine hartford and new haven or new haven and new york (although once you get to new york the lines start to get a little fuzzy as to where the metro region is).

in contrast to what garris said, i wouldn't consider hartford in the NYC metro. hartford is more a new england city than what fairfield and new haven counties are like (although new haven is a combo of NYC and new england).

[HartfordTycoon]

hartford doesn't have much going for it to make it a terribly great place to want to live, fall river's fall river. manchester's in new hampshire and i don't really have any desire to live there (and i've heard from people that it's expensive to own up there). and springfield is really close to hartford, but i've never spent much time there.

i am not surprised by the metro area numbers. it's really dense right around providence and you don't have to get too far outside of hartford for it to really spread out. and springfield is a city in its own right, why combine it with hartford? if you're gonna do that, then combine hartford and new haven or new haven and new york (although once you get to new york the lines start to get a little fuzzy as to where the metro region is).

in contrast to what garris said, i wouldn't consider hartford in the NYC metro. hartford is more a new england city than what fairfield and new haven counties are like (although new haven is a combo of NYC and new england).

I would have to respectfully disagree. I posted a while back but Hartford is number 2 nationally for the highest average salaries, only second to the SF Bay Area. Hartford is also one of the most affordable metros in the Northeast. High Salary+Low Cost of Living=Pretty Damn Good Place to Live, if you ask me. Also Hartford is all new england, but the NYC influence can be detected all the way to Springfield and beyond. Springfield is heavily influenced by Hartford, maybe they are their own metro, but in their own newspaper they list local Hartford Events as local events for the weekend. Maybe that's because things actually come here and not to Springfield. I agree about the combo effect in New Haven, it's easily detectible. I personally think Hartford is a great location. In the middle of New England, low cost living, high paying jobs, equidistant from NYC and Boston. Less than a Half hour to Springfield or New Haven, less than an hour to New London and SE CT attractions. I mean c'mon where in the world does this damn stigma come from? I really don't get it personally.

[runawayjim]

I would have to respectfully disagree. I posted a while back but Hartford is number 2 nationally for the highest average salaries, only second to the SF Bay Area. Hartford is also one of the most affordable metros in the Northeast. High Salary+Low Cost of Living=Pretty Damn Good Place to Live, if you ask me. Also Hartford is all new england, but the NYC influence can be detected all the way to Springfield and beyond. Springfield is heavily influenced by Hartford, maybe they are their own metro, but in their own newspaper they list local Hartford Events as local events for the weekend. Maybe that's because things actually come here and not to Springfield. I agree about the combo effect in New Haven, it's easily detectible. I personally think Hartford is a great location. In the middle of New England, low cost living, high paying jobs, equidistant from NYC and Boston. Less than a Half hour to Springfield or New Haven, less than an hour to New London and SE CT attractions. I mean c'mon where in the world does this damn stigma come from? I really don't get it personally.

The stigma comes from this list. The only new england cities on the list are Hartford and Springfield. Granted, they moved down the list, which is good.

Hartford doesn't have the nightlife that New Haven or Providence have. The low cost of living in hartford is related to the crime rate. once you move just north of the city or just west, the cost of living increases. east hartford isn't the best of locations, but if you go just east to manchester, cost goes up.

i have no doubts that the quality of life in hartford is getting better and that there's a lot of potential, but as someone who used to live in CT (for many years) and went to school not far from hartford (uconn), i have to say that i am not at all impressed by hartford as a city. new haven is a much better place to live in my opinion.

[HartfordTycoon]

We are all entitled to our opinions. Greater New Haven can't touch greater Hartford. All of the malls suck, the movie theaters suck, everything is below the greater Hartford level. That might not be something you are familiar with, but trust me it's the truth. The nightlife is good, depending on what type of scene you like. I go to hip hop clubs, most of you probably don't. To me Hartford has better nightlife and prettier girls, but those are at the places I frequent.

[Jerry2]

Didn't they shut down a thread because people couldn't debate intelligently without ridiculous slander? Tycoon, are you an adult ? I don't think runawayjim insulted in any way. He just stated that the poll should include different cities and that he preferred New Haven and Prov. and New Haven wasn't even on the list. Saying that Hartford has cuter girls sounds like an elementary schoolchild ...Conn. is not a foreign country. It's our next door neighbor.

[HartfordTycoon]

Didn't they shut down a thread because people couldn't debate intelligently without ridiculous slander? Tycoon, are you an adult ? I don't think runawayjim insulted in any way. He just stated that the poll should include different cities and that he preferred New Haven and Prov. and New Haven wasn't even on the list. Saying that Hartford has cuter girls sounds like an elementary schoolchild ...Conn. is not a foreign country. It's our next door neighbor.

I am an adult, a young adult. I'm 24 with a sense of humor. Lighten up, my friend. I'm a college educated Specialty Underwriter for Chubb Insurance Company and sit on the Board of Directors of a Hartford Non-Profit. Like you said, saying we have prettier girls is nothing to seriously debate. Let's keep it light.

[Cotuit]

Didn't they shut down a thread because people couldn't debate intelligently without ridiculous slander?

Yes, and I'm ever so annoyed that a few continually ruin things for the many. I'm even more annoyed however when the many allow themselves to be baited by the few.

[HartfordTycoon]

Seriously though, I will defend my city. I am very proud of where I come from and think this is a great area. I don't say anything mean or hurtful to anyone and always focus on the positive. I mean can't adults have a laugh or two? I am telling the truth about the malls and movie theaters though, extremely sub-par in New Haven County, compared to what's in Hartford County.

[runawayjim]

Seriously though, I will defend my city. I am very proud of where I come from and think this is a great area. I don't say anything mean or hurtful to anyone and always focus on the positive. I mean can't adults have a laugh or two?

i've never said anything slanderous about hartford, just stating facts (and i consider that most dangerous cities list to be facts). i have nothing against hartford, it's just not one of my favorite cities. i see it's potential, but it needs a lot of work.

and yes, we do need a few laughs... i don't frequent hip hop clubs, i prefer bars with a good beer selection and good music (preferably live). new haven has a better music scene than hartford, and more of those good beer bars (and not as many hip hop clubs).

[ZachariahDaMan]

From pictures I have seen, Providence seems the nicest.

[HartfordTycoon]

i've never said anything slanderous about hartford, just stating facts (and i consider that most dangerous cities list to be facts). i have nothing against hartford, it's just not one of my favorite cities. i see it's potential, but it needs a lot of work.

and yes, we do need a few laughs... i don't frequent hip hop clubs, i prefer bars with a good beer selection and good music (preferably live). new haven has a better music scene than hartford, and more of those good beer bars (and not as many hip hop clubs).

Exactly, which is why different locations work out better for different people. I don't go to bars with live music. That's not my thing. I might go to concert if a particular artist I like is performing and those shows are almost always in Hartford or Springfield. I'm also active in the Hip Hop scene and would like to see Hartford become New England's Hip Hop Mecca (it practically already is).

[runawayjim]

Exactly, which is why different locations work out better for different people. I don't go to bars with live music. That's not my thing. I might go to concert if a particular artist I like is performing and those shows are almost always in Hartford or Springfield. I'm also active in the Hip Hop scene and would like to see Hartford become New England's Hip Hop Mecca (it practically already is).

the one thing hartford has that new haven and providence lack is the meadows. and now new haven doesn't even have the colisseum anymore (they're idiots for tearing it down). providence is finally going to do a full renovation of the civic center... i mean the dunk. and providence also has the tweeter center half an hour away.

oh yeah, one comment you made that i will dispute... new haven is at best half an hour from hartford, never under (unless it's the middle of the night and you're doing 80+).

[HartfordTycoon]

... new haven is at best half an hour from hartford, never under (unless it's the middle of the night and you're doing 80+).

You're probably right. My perception may be a bit skewed as I have traveled in the middle of the night doing 80 many many times.

[MadVlad]

Actually, the Webster Theatre has been getting as many good acts, if not better acts, than Toad's has for the past few years. There's also Sully's which has great music live very often. New haven lost a lot of it's music potential when they closed down places like the Moon, the Urban Jungle (or whatever Fernando called it before he closed), and the Coliseum. Toad's has definitely set the bar in the past, but I feel it has been surpassed in recent years. New Haven is still hopping, but it isn't as musically vibrant as it once was...

[damus]

Regarding our own NE cities, from the perspective of a newcomer, I'm surprised people would lump Boston and Providence together as a metro, as I know people who wouldn't lump Providence together with Cranston or Warwick, let alone Boston. For most people I know living in Boston, Providence might just as well be Baltimore or Philly. Same goes for Springfield and Hartford.

I don't like bringing back such an old discussion, but I can't believe no one pointed out that while Hartford and Springfield shouldn't be lumped together, that Hartford and New Haven are basically the same media market, sharing television stations. There are many great shopping areas located between the two cities that people from either general area frequent. You could also "lump" the greater waterbury section of CT as well as Eastern CT into the Hartford/New Haven market, which would put Hartford well over 2 million.

[runawayjim]

I don't like bringing back such an old discussion, but I can't believe no one pointed out that while Hartford and Springfield shouldn't be lumped together, that Hartford and New Haven are basically the same media market, sharing television stations. There are many great shopping areas located between the two cities that people from either general area frequent. You could also "lump" the greater waterbury section of CT as well as Eastern CT into the Hartford/New Haven market, which would put Hartford well over 2 million.

the way i look at metro regions is how people travel to work and where they travel from. this puts new haven in new york's metro. but this could potentially also put providence in boston's (and maybe vice versa). it's difficult to say so lines are drawn. you could say that southeastern CT is also in hartford's, or throw all of CT in there.

the fact is that metro regions often overlap when you look at them, but you can't count people twice, so they draw the lines.

[blackstone]

the way i look at metro regions is how people travel to work and where they travel from. this puts new haven in new york's metro. but this could potentially also put providence in boston's (and maybe vice versa). it's difficult to say so lines are drawn. you could say that southeastern CT is also in hartford's, or throw all of CT in there.

the fact is that metro regions often overlap when you look at them, but you can't count people twice, so they draw the lines.

new haven is not filled with people that commute to new york. i have worked a lot in nyc, taking trains in from milford. i have never had a problem finding a seat, at any time in the morning. on the way back, the train is practically empty at milford. maybe you think that they drive into nyc from nh. no one in there right mind drives to manhattan from new haven, but those that do are surely a small handful. if you have data that backs up your contention, i would like you to share it with everyone here.

[runawayjim]

new haven is not filled with people that commute to new york. i have worked a lot in nyc, taking trains in from milford. i have never had a problem finding a seat, at any time in the morning. on the way back, the train is practically empty at milford. maybe you think that they drive into nyc from nh. no one in there right mind drives to manhattan from new haven, but those that do are surely a small handful. if you have data that backs up your contention, i would like you to share it with everyone here.

i never said that new haven is filled with these people. but these people do exist. and some of them drive to other stations to take the train (cheaper fares, and most of the time it's faster to go down 95 to another train station, like bpt or ffld than take the train the whole way).

what i was trying to prove is that metro regions overlap no matter how you determine the boundaries.

[HartfordTycoon]

I don't like bringing back such an old discussion, but I can't believe no one pointed out that while Hartford and Springfield shouldn't be lumped together, that Hartford and New Haven are basically the same media market, sharing television stations. There are many great shopping areas located between the two cities that people from either general area frequent. You could also "lump" the greater waterbury section of CT as well as Eastern CT into the Hartford/New Haven market, which would put Hartford well over 2 million.

I like this guy already.

[HartfordTycoon]

i never said that new haven is filled with these people. but these people do exist. and some of them drive to other stations to take the train (cheaper fares, and most of the time it's faster to go down 95 to another train station, like bpt or ffld than take the train the whole way).

what i was trying to prove is that metro regions overlap no matter how you determine the boundaries.

True, but why does New York get to claim New Haven County, when at least as many people from NH County work in neighboring Hartford County as work in NYC? If we had a functional county government system in CT, this would not be happening to us. Hartford-New Haven would be one metro IMO, and would probably include New London County and Metro Springfield. Easily making us the 2nd largest metro in New England. I trully think that the areas that we are discussing in CT and W. Mass have way more "Metro-like" characteristics than any other place in the country that is not considered to be one metro area. This is a tremendous disadvantage because people from outside of the area can't see how interconnected it really is on paper. You have to experience it to understand it. You have to watch your "local" CT news that covers everywhere from Bridgeport to Hartford and everywhere in between. It does aggrevate me and I feel that we are being shortchanged in the Metro Rankings. I personally do not feel as if I am out of town until I leave CT or the Springfield area of MA, and I bet a lot of area residents feel the same way. I have been all over CT and none of it really felt foreign. Boston feels foreign, and so does Providence so it's not just a New England thing. People I know from NH don't consider Hartford to be out of town, but NYC is. But yet NYC is the metro they belong too? Makes sense to me.

[runawayjim]

True, but why does New York get to claim New Haven County, when at least as many people from NH County work in neighboring Hartford County as work in NYC? If we had a functional county government system in CT, this would not be happening to us. Hartford-New Haven would be one metro IMO, and would probably include New London County and Metro Springfield. Easily making us the 2nd largest metro in New England. I trully think that the areas that we are discussing in CT and W. Mass have way more "Metro-like" characteristics than any other place in the country that is not considered to be one metro area. This is a tremendous disadvantage because people from outside of the area can't see how interconnected it really is on paper. You have to experience it to understand it. You have to watch your "local" CT news that covers everywhere from Bridgeport to Hartford and everywhere in between. It does aggrevate me and I feel that we are being shortchanged in the Metro Rankings.

and there's just as many people in the hartford area working in new haven. the problem is, there's no other part of the country where so many cities, each with their own importance and smaller metro area, are so close to one another as they are in southern new england and the NYC metro.

local RI news covers the entire state of RI, SE MA, and even some stuff in eastern CT. the only difference is that there's no other cities of comparable size as close to providence as the cities in CT are.

the metro regions are generally used for statistics. the number of people in them matters only for certain things. if you use a different approach to determining the region, think of shopping. someone said that people from new haven go to hartford to shop and stuff. that happens a lot less than you think. they might go to wallingford or meriden, but rarely as far as manchester or west hartford. and the same goes for hartford going to new haven (although ikea sort of changed that). people from the bridgeport area are more likely to go to danbury or NY for shopping and entertainment. i don't think anyone goes to waterbury... i don't really blame them though. so in a way, the metro regions are more exact the way they're setup if you consider where people associate themselves with. i used to live just outside new haven and i never travelled to the hartford area for anything unless it was somethign specific (a store that wasn't in new haven for instance or hanging out with friends who lived up there). i associated with the new haven area and that became part of who i was. now it's changed to providence. it's a hometown pride sort of thing really i think. i have a feeling people from new haven wouldn't want to be consider to be part of the hartford metro. i just don't see how it'd really help them since they have their own thing going on down there and they're doing pretty good for themselves.