210 Trade | EpiCentre

[Charlotte_native]

Still don't get why they cann't announce tenants, unless of course, they have no deals in place.

Okay, what about the restaurant/Nightlife/Entertainment end? Lucky Strike isn't happening, and the FOX Sports Grille thing is sounding really iffy. Whats the real scoop???? It certainly isn't that puffy feature in "Uptown Charlotte magazine".

Ruths Chris at 230 South Tryon was basically a done deal for about 3 months before they announced it. With large commercial leases like this, and attorneys creating the leases (no fill in the black worksheets like we little people use for contracts), things are negotiated for months. Until they are done and sealed, they are not what we would consider solid. Until they are solid, they don't get annouced. It is actually pretty simple.

Does anyone know the retail mix of the Grubb stuff on the corner of Colony? In Elizabeth? Metropolitan has only annoucned their anchor tenants.

This is really typical for nothing to be announced until it is more than certain, it is just disappointing to us since we can't wait to find out.

[Charlotte_native]

It has also been a while since a big space in center city has gone under. Cans, McCormick & Schmicks, Buckhead, most of the newcomers seem to be doing quite well. I would say this market looks quite ripe for potential tenants, especially those that would like to be in the bottom of a building with hundreds of residential units office all around, sports venues within blocks, and a handful of hotels.

[ElricSeven]

I agree $20 a ticket no matter what the experence to see a movie would come & go in this town very quickly.

If you get a truly upscale experience it would stick. I'm not talking about your usual high-volume, cattle call movie theater.

[monsoon]

That's what people said about the $75 steak, $400 psf condo, and Tiffany & Co.

Yeah but you are talking about a Hollywood movie now. I don't see many couples shelling out 65 bucks (including some nasty popcorn and a drink) to see stull like Snakes on a Plane, or Jackass Number Two. (And forget families going at those prices) This might have a chance of working if they show more unique films that can't be had on DVD at Blockbuster or off Pay Per view in a few weeks. Stuff that might be unique in the CLT area.

[schmopperX]

If you get a truly upscale experience it would stick. I'm not talking about your usual high-volume, cattle call movie theater.

But don't you think we need a high volume theater downtown? I do.

[ElricSeven]

But don't you think we need a high volume theater downtown? I do.

It would be nice, but I think it would be cost prohibitive compared to plunking down a big-box style theatre past the outer beltway.

[atlrvr]

The Loew's Theatre in downtown Boston is PACKED with people from what appears to me every socio-economic-cultural background out there....it is also attached to the Ritz-Carlton hotel.....I would say that VERY few of the people who go to it live nearby, and that most people take the trains/busses in to spend a evening "downtown"....oh yeah, and it has 19 screens. Tickets seemed expensive to me $10/person, but it's been a while since I had gone to the movies, so maybe that's normal now. I guess my point is, with enough attraction to warrant making downtown an evening destination, I think that a large downtown theatre can work based on volume, BUT, I agree with Aussie Luke's idea of including seveal (maybe 30%) of the screens to be "high dollar" that have much nicer amenities, better food/beverage selections, etc. And to Metro's suggestions, maybe 1-2 screens should be reserved for Art/Indie films.

There is no reason that each niche can't be served at EpiCentre, and the mix would probably make it long-term more successful.

Edited August 29, 2006 by atlrvr

[ElricSeven]

Sure, you'd have to show movies that are the most popular and/or appeal to an upscale crowd (e.g., Sideways). knowing your fiscally prudent lifestyle, I think you're applying your own common sense to this option. Most people are looking for a reason to throw their money away on this stuff. Really. Someone making a $6,000 a month mortgage payment in Dilworth isn't going to bat an eyelash at paying double ticket price if they get to eat and drink and make an experience out of this. Not to mention saving 45 minutes in driving time, and being able to hit the town right after the show. Partying folks easily drop $160-$200 on a Friday night at the bar. This would probably end up being cheaper and more entertaining.

Look around at all the $50K, $70K and more cars in this town. People here have a lot of money.

[monsoon]

There is no reason that each niche can't be served at EpiCentre, and the mix would probably make it long-term more successful.

It's hard to imagine that happening when their goal is to fill it with national chains. Unless they do something unique, nobody is going to bother to go there for entertainment options unless they happen to live in downtown, or they happen to be there for something else. Bars and restaurants work, but beyond that it is a tough sell when everything they offer can be had in the suburbs for less money and you don't have to pay to park. So given they have a potential base of about 15K (lets say 30K to be generous) people to pull from, I don't think the business case works out that well for a lot of these places that are going to take a lot of money to construct in the Epicenter. Lets all remember the epicenter would not even exist if the city council had not been willing to let loose of the land at a very high discount. This is the most likely reason that more hasn't happened and why there still is a lot of un-rented retail space near there.

It's one thing to hype of a place with pretty entertainment renderings to sell condos. Its quite another to deliver on that, and it would not be the first time in this city that a developer has implied more than he could deliver to potential homeowners.

BTW, you can't build a city like Boston overnight no matter how much money is thrown at it. Not when the city council is more than content to let the city continue to sprawl out of control outside of the loop and there is practically no investments like this elsewhere in town.

[49er]

it almost sounds like epicentre is being called a failure before its complete! Let us be patient and reserve judgement for when its open and how things shake out. i really see an opportunity for an 8-12 screen theater that is only different in the fact that its located downtown. with the booming populaton, numerous visitors and distance from any other theater I think it would work fine. Forget upscale, let it be for everyone. I remember hearing a long time ago that theater operators were only interested if patrons could validate for free parking.

[atlrvr]

Metro....I don't think you give people enough credit. Just because people chose to live in teh suburbs doesn't mean that there isn't some innate attraction to bright lights, tall buildings, and swarms of people. It's why in small town's, people cruise Main St. and in NYC, the bridge and tunnelers make a night of going "into the city".

It's also not like EpiCentre is the only attraction downtown. It's conceivable that someone who wants to see an art film, might eat at Sonoma, and then walk a block to a movie, or that someone who want to see Snake on A Plane will want to get a pizza and a pitcher of beer from Fuel before the movie, and then 4 more beers from Buckhead Saloon afterwards, or that a bunch of women from Ballantyne of Lake Norman might plan a girls night out with spa treatment at Modern, a dinner at Bently's, and then chose to see a move at one of the more upscale cinema's with wine, before crashing at the Ritz Carlton, or maybe a group of teens want to go downtown, and can do everything that they would in the suburbs, except get out of the suburbs for the night....I sure wished I could have.

[AuLukey]

I remember hearing a long time ago that theater operators were only interested if patrons could validate for free parking.

That's the only viable way that they are going to keep consistant business. Because, if you include parking, you're looking at at least an extra five bucks to see a movie in uptown when you could drive four or five miles out and park for free at several theatres that are just as nice in quality. I know that this theatre will serve people that live uptown, but that's not enough to generate a constant flow of patrons.

[rockhilljames]

Metro....I don't think you give people enough credit. Just because people chose to live in teh suburbs doesn't mean that there isn't some innate attraction to bright lights, tall buildings, and swarms of people. It's why in small town's, people cruise Main St. and in NYC, the bridge and tunnelers make a night of going "into the city".

It's also not like EpiCentre is the only attraction downtown. It's conceivable that someone who wants to see an art film, might eat at Sonoma, and then walk a block to a movie, or that someone who want to see Snake on A Plane will want to get a pizza and a pitcher of beer from Fuel before the movie, and then 4 more beers from Buckhead Saloon afterwards, or that a bunch of women from Ballantyne of Lake Norman might plan a girls night out with spa treatment at Modern, a dinner at Bently's, and then chose to see a move at one of the more upscale cinema's with wine, before crashing at the Ritz Carlton, or maybe a group of teens want to go downtown, and can do everything that they would in the suburbs, except get out of the suburbs for the night....I sure wished I could have.

Atlvr is talking about my surburban ass. Despite living in Rock Hill, I'll be a regular at Epicenter once it's complete. I already go to Jillian's, Tavern on the Tracks, Connelly's, Discovery Place, the Mint and other Charlotte attractions. Being able to cruise downtown to check out a movie, eat some dinner or catch a show would kick ass. Bowling afterwords would be...interesting. I hope they have Karoke.

[NCgfx]

I work at a restaurant Uptown. You would not believe the number of out-of-town guests that are searching for a theatre.

[ElricSeven]

That's the only viable way that they are going to keep consistant business. Because, if you include parking, you're looking at at least an extra five bucks to see a movie in uptown when you could drive four or five miles out and park for free at several theatres that are just as nice in quality. I know that this theatre will serve people that live uptown, but that's not enough to generate a constant flow of patrons.

I figure that a lot of people would go after work on Friday. Note also that a significant portion of the people have reserved parking Uptown already. When I commuted, I would just park at my usual space and walk from there. Throw in light rail, busses, etc., there are lots of venues. Again too, it would probably be part of dinner at the movie then night on the town. People seem to find a way to park and go out partying.

[dubone]

Also, there are no movie theaters inside what Dougie called the inner ring (Rt 4 - Wendover - Eastway, etc.), which is the most densely populated section of the city. An uptown movie theater would serve that whole market, especiall with all the busses and rapid transit destined for the building next door.

Movie theaters are a dying business. But in the central part of Charlotte, they have all already died off (I'm not counting Manor). So putting one back in to follow the recent growth in population moving to the central part of the city makes a lot of sense. Especially if it follows a business model that is full of buzz and interest, such as one that offers dining, drinking, and the latest in movie theater gizmos.

Also, the lifestyle of the urbanites is to live in a smaller home, and live more of your life outside that home. Food isn't done in the kitchen or dining room, it is done at a restaurant. Exercise isn't done in the back yard, it is done in the park. Entertainment isn't done in the living room, it is done throughout the city. It is a new way of life, and it is catching on. "It's European".

[AuLukey]

You know what Charlotte could really use? A fancy-shmancy movie theatre that is used for premiers. Hey, it's better than showing the premier for Cars at the speedway. As if that would ever happen.

[turbocraig]

I read an article in Newsweek or Time a couple of months ago about the rise and fall of the movie theater. They focused on the whole "dying breed" thing for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the pathetic offerings Hollywood has served up over the past few years. Anyway, they spotlighted a woman who's father founded one of the largest movie theater companies in the world; the names of the company and hers escape me at the moment. She had spearheaded the (very controversial) move from traditional theaters to "destination theaters" with martini bars, high-end food, etc.. not unlike the Ballantyne Village theater. Their company was heading down the tubes and they needed to do something drastic if they were going to survive, and now they're one of the most successful chains again.

If that's the format that theaters are going to have to morph into in order to be viable, I can't think if a more appropriate place for one than this development.

Edited August 29, 2006 by turbocraig

[dubone]

If that's the format that theaters are going to have to morph into in order to be viable, I can't think if a more appropriate place for one than this development.

It is. Or at least that is what they've been saying/hinting at for years.

[nowensone]

I read an article in Newsweek or Time a couple of months ago about the rise and fall of the movie theater. They focused on the whole "dying breed" thing for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the pathetic offerings Hollywood has served up over the past few years. Anyway, they spotlighted a woman who's father founded one of the largest movie theater companies in the world; the names of the company and hers escape me at the moment. She had spearheaded the (very controversial) move from traditional theaters to "destination theaters" with martini bars, high-end food, etc.. not unlike the Ballantyne Village theater. Their company was heading down the tubes and they needed to do something drastic if they were going to survive, and now they're one of the most successful chains again.

If that's the format that theaters are going to have to morph into in order to be viable, I can't think if a more appropriate place for one than this development.

Interesting, yes, I've seen these kinds of places fail, and some be successful, at least as long as I lived in the area anyway. I much prefer them to a "normal" theatre, never have understood why they aren't more common. Yes, they cost you more, but the way the "normal" ones have gone up in price, there shouldn't be a significant difference. Actually, maybe that's a contributing reason to a revival if there is one..

[uptownliving]

it almost sounds like epicentre is being called a failure before its complete! Let us be patient and reserve judgement for when its open and how things shake out.

Its an ancient UP tradition to rip a building to shreads before and during construction, and then laud it as the best thing ever when it is complete.

[turbocraig]

^^Is it really more expensive though? A ticket to a "regular" theater is gonna cost you anywhere from $8.50-10.00 regardless, unless it's a matinee. If a theater offered you cocktails and restaurant-quality food before/during/after the show, I'm willing to bet you'd be better off at the end of the night than if you did all three separately.

[dubone]

And in a few cases, after it is complete .

[cinco]

Its an ancient UP tradition to rip a building to shreads before and during construction, and then laud it as the best thing ever when it is complete.

it's a mixture of "tough love" and "keepin' people honest".

for the record i maintain alls well with ghazi and this project... i remember when some were convinced that he wasn't going to make good on imploding the OCC.

[ElricSeven]

^^Is it really more expensive though? A ticket to a "regular" theater is gonna cost you anywhere from $8.50-10.00 regardless, unless it's a matinee. If a theater offered you cocktails and restaurant-quality food before/during/after the show, I'm willing to bet you'd be better off at the end of the night than if you did all three separately.

You'd have to pay for drinks and food also. The point here is that I think something akin to a Ritz Carlton version of the movie experience with more limited sized audiences and table or booth seating would do much better than a mega-multiplex. You could couple it with valet parking serviced to the Epicentre parking lot. It would be cool. No fighting for seats, eating cheap popcorn and drinking watered-down sodas in five gallon sweating cups. I mean, has anyone ever considered how lousy your choices of food and beverage are at the movie theatre? It's all hyper-processed SYSCO crap and stale candy marked up to outrageous prices. It makes McDonalds look like health food. I'd gladly pay more for a glass of wine and a real appetizer. And to be able to sit at a table or in a booth without some sweaty fat guy's love handles billowing over the armrests and taking up all my personal space...priceless.

It's no wonder the regular movie theater can't compete with a 50 inch HD home theater with surround sound. You can sit in your jammies and watch in the comfort of your own home. No reason to go out unless it is a real event, something more...