210 Trade | EpiCentre

[Cityplanner]

I'll get on my Libertarian soapbox and state that owning commercial real estate is not something that government should do.  If the developers aren't making money on the Epicentre, in a prime location, then they should spend their own money repositioning the property.  Or they could file for bankruptcy and reduce their debt load that way and then be able to charge lower rents.

[KJHburg]

Been there done that.  City owned this site as the old convention center with the pyramids on top then sold it for a deal to a developer.  I think the city needs to GET out of retail and entertainment deals as Cityfair was a failure, this has problems and now they are talking about doing something with Mr Tepper.   I say let entertainment districts develop on their own like Southend and NoDa and they will be much more successful in the long run.  

[KJHburg]

someone asked in another restaurant bites the dust thread about how much space is available at the Epicenter

Here is what Legacy CRE is advertising there

https://www.legacycre.com/listings/#/property/365690

[cltcane]

19 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Been there done that.  City owned this site as the old convention center with the pyramids on top then sold it for a deal to a developer.  I think the city needs to GET out of retail and entertainment deals as Cityfair was a failure, this has problems and now they are talking about doing something with Mr Tepper.   I say let entertainment districts develop on their own like Southend and NoDa and they will be much more successful in the long run.  

I think this would be a great way for BofA to spend some of the $1B it has committed to advancing racial equality and economic opportunity.  Subsidize rent and/or provide low/no interest loans to small and minority-owned businesses to create a diverse retail destination (and small farmers market!) in the shadow of their world HQ building.

Edited August 9, 2020 by cltcane

[kermit]

^ would make very good PR. Shadow of HQ building, 50/50 economic mobility ranking, etc.

Great idea!

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Same concept as  

Edited August 14, 2020 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[j-man]

Let me just say this.....I’m my honest opinion, the way that the Epicenter was constructed is its biggest downfall. It’s kind of an inconvenience to people who want to just walk around,  shop, club, and go to bars casually on STREET LEVEL! I walk uptown a lot and it’s like I have to mentally force myself to go to the epicenter to get food or something from there because of ALL of the steps I would have to climb, all the corners and curves you have to maneuver around like a mace, and the amount of floors it takes to get to a certain place. I’d much rather shop, bar hop, and grab quick food as I’m walking or jogging casually from somewhere  that is street level, not in a big complex that takes so much energy to get around and up and down in. 

[Matthew.Brendan]

Stolen from r/charlotte 

 

[kermit]

 

Strangely I am kinda upbeat about the longer-term prospects of uptown and intown retail. I think the approaching commercial RE gutting will result in much lower lease rates for retail -- giving us a much better tenant mix.

Edited October 7, 2020 by kermit

[Madison Parkitect]

Welp, that'll pretty much do it.

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

How is Vault still surviving? I know Howl at the Moon is looking elsewhere as well. Will be interesting to see how the future unfolds with this complex and what direction the owners take it. Even before Covid, I know the owners were basically wanting to push the reset button on the tenants anyways for the most part. More family oriented stuff and stores/shops that are open during the day will provide more foot traffic throughout the entire day unlike the once club dominant environment which essentially made half the epicentre closed the first half of the day.

Edited October 7, 2020 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[KJHburg]

3 of the 5 locked out are bars which are 100% closed and the restaurants are able to operate at 50% but there is hardly anyone uptown working.  No tourists in the hotels at the Epicenter.   Uptown retail and restaurants is the most affected by all the stay at home workers and no tourists more so than any other part of the city.   I feel like our city has done a terrible job trying to help them too. 

[RANYC]

Does anyone on the Council actually live in Uptown?  Would be nice to carve out resident-based representation for Uptown given its strategic importance and regional symbolism, and the unique aspects of truly urban living. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by RANYC

[Madison Parkitect]

The Reps for Uptown are either Larken or Malcolm Graham, depending on where in Uptown, but I don't think either of them live there specifically.

[Cadi40]

I do believe Uptown Charlotte needs some nightlife at the Epicenter, but not to the extent in which it's currently at. If I could renovate the Epicenter I'd add the following:

- A TJ Maxx or similar retailer 

- An Urban Target store

- Reserve clubs for the upper floors, limited to about 2-4 establishments

- Expand outdoor dining 

- Add some new fast food dining options

- Include a Zara or an Urban Outfitters, a fast fashion store would do well at this location

- Add some sort of technology store here

- Add trees and upgraded lighting 

[15895]

Charlotte needs to close some streets for large outdoor dining areas for restaurants to basically operate at near full capacity but with plenty of social distancing. 
 

also, hopefully CLT is giving it’s restaurants grants for outdoor heating for the colder weather months. 

[Cityplanner]

I agree with the posts above.  As I've said for years, if Greenville, SC has plenty of "upscale mall chain" clothing stores in its downtown area (Brooks Brothers and many more), Charlotte can, and should.  I'd think that most people uptown are too old to be interested in going clubbing at the Epicentre; surely there are better uses for the space.

[15895]

41 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

I do believe Uptown Charlotte needs some nightlife at the Epicenter, but not to the extent in which it's currently at. If I could renovate the Epicenter I'd add the following:

- A TJ Maxx or similar retailer 

- An Urban Target store

- Reserve clubs for the upper floors, limited to about 2-4 establishments

- Expand outdoor dining 

- Add some new fast food dining options

- Include a Zara or an Urban Outfitters, a fast fashion store would do well at this location

- Add some sort of technology store here

- Add trees and upgraded lighting 

TJ Maxx, Zara, Target (Due to Metropolitan)  etc. seems so unlikely. Urban outfitters probably is a stretch.

Does downtown or Midtown Atlanta even have those retailers? Pretty positive it’s no.

im going to guess no for Houston & Dallas also. Houston, Charlotte, Atlanta & Dallas are not Greenville or Charleston. Too expensive vs. strip malls (or SouthEnd, Metropolitan in the case Of Charlotte)
 

I mention that because Charlotte should focus on what’s attainable and grow on it. Fact is, restaurants, bars, etc will contribute much more than retailers. (There will never be a mass of retail in uptown just like there isn’t in Atlanta, Houston, Dallas.) 

Studio Movie Grille are the type of venues needed. I loved eating uptown, go to the movies then go to a few bars (Lucky’s arcade, the various other ones) chill at Amelie’s and go out for more drinks. 

I find it frustrating that the reputation - particularly by newcomers - act like Epicenter wasn’t hip enough or that it was too mainstream for them. It was such an amazing addition at the time. And it’s not going to get any better than it was. And it will either be bars and restaurants again or it will possibly meet the same fate as the Polk Building. Torn down and replaced with a mediocre apartment building and maybe a smaller office tower that has an Orange Theory and a Starbucks and sundries that closes at 7pm and closes on Sunday’s. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by AirNostrumMAD

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Charlotte needs to close some streets for large outdoor dining areas for restaurants to basically operate at near full capacity but with plenty of social distancing. 
 

also, hopefully CLT is giving it’s restaurants grants for outdoor heating for the colder weather months. 

That starts this weekend between 5th and 6th street on Tryon with outdoor music, events, et.: https://uptowncharlotte.com/uptownweekends

Restaurants like SeaLevel are participating. If you want to dine on Tryon, you can get takeout from a window and then go eat in the road. Whether people will turn up to eat in the road without full service versus other options in town, we'll see. 

They'll also have a pumpkin patch at Truist Field where you can buy the most expensive pumpkins in the city, LOL and movie nights (Jurassic World this weekend). 

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by CLT2014

[Cityplanner]

2 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

im going to guess no for Houston & Dallas also. Houston, Charlotte, Atlanta & Dallas are not Greenville or Charleston. Too expensive vs. strip malls (or SouthEnd, Metropolitan in the case Of Charlotte)

FYI rents on Main Street in Greenville are about the same or higher than in other retail areas in town.   So the economics are likely similar.

Charlotte seems to have people in it who are afraid of going uptown.  I've never heard of anyone in Greenville being afraid to go downtown, but perhaps they exist. Maybe that's the difference: fear?

[CLT2014]

18 minutes ago, Cityplanner said:

FYI rents on Main Street in Greenville are about the same or higher than in other retail areas in town.   So the economics are likely similar.

Charlotte seems to have people in it who are afraid of going uptown.  I've never heard of anyone in Greenville being afraid to go downtown, but perhaps they exist. Maybe that's the difference: fear?

Greenville's downtown is also mainly a shopping / entertainment district versus a vertical office park. Most major Greenville employers are out in the suburban areas, especially given the metro areas large manufacturing and industrials industry. This results in a Main Street that is by and large shops and restaurants (versus lobby areas) for locals and visitors. You can also park in numerous city owned garages around Main Street for free for the first hour, just $2 in the second hour, and $1 each hour after any day of the week. In a car dependent metro like Greenville, this means a stay at home mom can drive to downtown Greenville to get coffee with a friend on a Wednesday morning and pay $0 - $2 in parking for the coffee date. In Uptown Charlotte, that stay at home mom isn't getting coffee Uptown. It is too much of a hassle, attractions are spread out (we have no "Main Street"), and yes, the safety perception is worse in Charlotte than Greenville. The reality is many people aren't taking the train (including people that live right on it) and they aren't going to pay $15 to park in a garage that is more expensive than their coffee when there are so many other options in the city where parking isn't expensive due to office workers. Hence the only people that come to Uptown mid-week, are forced to be there by their employers. The fact that Uptown is a ghost town without people being forced to be there by employers shows we have a long way to go to making it a destination and not an office park.

Edited October 7, 2020 by CLT2014

[kermit]

11 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

 The fact that Uptown is a ghost town without people being forced to be there by employers shows we have a long way to go to making it a destination and not an office park.

This is undeniably true, but don't forget that the Arena/Hornets, Panthers and the Knights did a pretty good job bringing thousands into uptown regularly in the pre-plague era. It was a destination for events like the ACC championship game.

[atlrvr]

I think it's healthy now that inner ring neighborhoods are now taking away the responsibility of Uptown to be something for everyone.  Midtown Manhattan is also a ghost town, but doubt anyone is too concerned.

South End has seen a much lower relative decline in foot traffic than Uptown.

Not sure my point other than I think Charlotte having 2 different but complimentary submarkets is better for the city than Greenville (though I do like downtown Greenville for a day trip)

 

[15895]

3 hours ago, Cityplanner said:

FYI rents on Main Street in Greenville are about the same or higher than in other retail areas in town.   So the economics are likely similar.

Charlotte seems to have people in it who are afraid of going uptown.  I've never heard of anyone in Greenville being afraid to go downtown, but perhaps they exist. Maybe that's the difference: fear?

Do you have a source that can compare the retail areas of Charlotte’s downtown to Atlanta (or Dallas/Houston)? 
 

im just. Curious how larger cities in the southeast compare to Charlotte. 

[KJHburg]

Just now, AirNostrumMAD said:

Do you have a source that can compare the retail areas of Charlotte’s downtown to Atlanta (or Dallas/Houston)? 
 

im just. Curious how larger cities in the southeast compare to Charlotte. 

downtown Atlanta has very little retail same in downtown Dallas and Houston all cities have been to recently.  Downtown Fort Worth on the other hand has a very vibrant retail scene in the Sundance Square area.  https://www.dfwi.org/     Downtown Fort Worth despite is size smaller than Houston and Dallas is very vibrant.