210 Trade | EpiCentre

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Epicentre's decline started towards the tail end of Enso's life.  It was a culmination of things, not just one singular thing.  As someone mentioned above, there was a shift in what people liked to do.  When I first moved here, the club scene was huge.  Club Crush (where the Francis now sits, formerly, Novel Station).  Alley Cats, The Forum, Bar Charlotte.  That's what you did everyday from Wednesday through Saturday.  There weren't breweries, top golf, white water center, etc.  The only thing in South End was Uptown Cab and Nikko.

Fast forward to today and it needs some help.  We can stop dreaming about it being razed and something else being built...the thing isn't going anywhere.  So, let's just be hopeful for it's future.  It needs a massive overhaul, rebranding is a must, and I really think with the right tenant shuffle, this thing can get back on track.  It has two attached hotels (within a block radius of 7 total), across from the Ritz, close to the arena, direct light rail access...CTC redevelopment will def play an important role in this as well, but life can be revived in the Epicentre for sure.  

*Someone jokingly on here I think said we should just turn the whole thing into a casino lol.  That would be awesome...movie theater turn into a giant sports book.  My dream...

Edited April 16, 2021 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[michaelef]

It definitely needs some upgrades now. I'd like to see them find a way to encourage small local businesses almost like the micro retail at the RailYard, maybe a small food hall in one of the larger spaces that are unoccupied. 

Provide community events, make it the living room of uptown. 

[KJHburg]

In Nashville this morning.  Look at 5th and Broadway development on the site of their old convention center sound familiar to the Epicenter?  An office tower with Alliance Bernstein as the anchor developed by Spectrum of Charlotte and an apartment tower.  They have an Apple store, lots of retail and a food hall and National Museum of African American Music.  Now granted this is right on Broadway bar and entertainment strip and they gets millions more tourists than Charlotte.  It was a simple L shaped design not all these pathways and corridors like Epicenter.  Now I would love to see Spectrum buy this out of foreclosure or from the lender and redevelop it and keep the 2 hotels and the parking garage below but everything else to go.  Maybe an apartment tower and retail like this.  

HOMEPAGE - Fifth + Broadway (fifthandb.com)

5th + Broadway – Spectrum Companies (spectrumcos.com)

[Matthew.Brendan]

[RANYC]

25 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

In Nashville this morning.  Look at 5th and Broadway development on the site of their old convention center sound familiar to the Epicenter?  An office tower with Alliance Bernstein as the anchor developed by Spectrum of Charlotte and an apartment tower.  They have an Apple store, lots of retail and a food hall and National Museum of African American Music.  Now granted this is right on Broadway bar and entertainment strip and they gets millions more tourists than Charlotte.  It was a simple L shaped design not all these pathways and corridors like Epicenter.  Now I would love to see Spectrum buy this out of foreclosure or from the lender and redevelop it and keep the 2 hotels and the parking garage below but everything else to go.  Maybe an apartment tower and retail like this.  

HOMEPAGE - Fifth + Broadway (fifthandb.com)

5th + Broadway – Spectrum Companies (spectrumcos.com)

From your pics, I see a far superior design to what's currently in place at Epicenter, but I also think that the adjustments needed in order for Epicenter to get to more of this design appear very doable.

[QClifer]

I quit going to the epicenter before games/concerts and random Friday nights because of the people hanging around and felt unsafe. Maybe I’m the problem. 
clean up the bus station, 

Edited April 16, 2021 by QClifer

[Blue_Devil]

When we say midrise, do we mean a 7 story stick built? or something in the 12-15 range?

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, Blue_Devil said:

When we say midrise, do we mean a 7 story stick built? or something in the 12-15 range?

at this point anything but I am betting you could do a mid rise structure but I think residential is the key to making this project work again.  

[Blue_Devil]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

at this point anything but I am betting you could do a mid rise structure but I think residential is the key to making this project work again.  

That was meant for the Off Broardway shoes comment in the other thread lol

[Cityplanner]

10 hours ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

Epicentre's decline started towards the tail end of Enso's life.  It was a culmination of things, not just one singular thing.  As someone mentioned above, there was a shift in what people liked to do.  When I first moved here, the club scene was huge.  Club Crush (where the Francis now sits, formerly, Novel Station).  Alley Cats, The Forum, Bar Charlotte.  That's what you did everyday from Wednesday through Saturday. 

And when did we work?  I can’t fathom going clubbing 4 nights in a row.

[RANYC]

40 minutes ago, Cityplanner said:

And when did we work?  I can’t fathom going clubbing 4 nights in a row.

"People don't dance no mo', all they do is diss" - Goodie  Mob, circa 1998

[SgtCampsalot]

2 hours ago, Cityplanner said:

And when did we work?  I can’t fathom going clubbing 4 nights in a row.

Working 4:30p-10p as a server for the dinner shift, go out 11pm - 2pm to live one's life, sleep until noon, run errands 1p-3:30pm. Good times.

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

6 hours ago, Cityplanner said:

And when did we work?  I can’t fathom going clubbing 4 nights in a row.

Lol I’m not saying I did that. Just saying each club had their popular nights that usually covered the bulk of the week. Basically, whichever night you wanted to go out, there was the go to club to go to that night. Point is, clubs were popular back then and were the bulk of the nightlife in Charlotte back then with no south end and no epicentre. 
 

As I was saying before you started to judge (I’m just messing) that there has been a gradual shift in what people like to do socially. And imo, it’s more of the outdoorsy/active lifestyle. Anyplace you can grab a beer and (insert random activity) is what ppl like to do now. Grab a beer and throw an axe/hit golf balls/dog park/WWC/patios/rooftops/breweries, etc. And to get back on track, this is probably the reason we won’t see a single club reopen in the epicentre’s future. I have no problem with live music venues like howl at the moon and tin roof but I already know howl at the moon isn’t coming back. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[Owenorange]

12 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Too soon

[gman430]

13 hours ago, QClifer said:

I quit going to the epicenter before games/concerts and random Friday nights because of the people hanging around and felt unsafe. Maybe I’m the problem. 
clean up the bus station, 

You have hit the nail on the head. All of the homeless people and crime around the complex which is in large part due to the bus depot being right there is why people including myself quit visiting. It just doesn’t seem like to me Epicentre management and the City of Charlotte were doing enough to combat the problem and still aren’t to this day. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by gman430

[Cityplanner]

Epicentre is really just the wrong use of the site.

A block surrounded by a Ritz-Carlton, BofA office buildings and business-oriented hotels ought to have things that appeal to higher-income office workers. 

Get rid of the businesses (if any remain) that attract a rough crowd and rebuild the site so that is elegant, it's easily accessible from the Ritz-Carlton and BofA office buildings and hotels, and so that it's not accessible from the bus station.

And then re-tenant it.  Bring in a small collection of high-end retail stores (things that ought to be in Founders Hall, but aren't) and business-oriented restaurants.

As Northlake Mall empties out, the stores that were on its upper level may choose to come to the Epicentre: an Apple store and a few others that I see on its directory: Chico's, Loft and White House Black Market are certainly stores that would appeal to some office workers uptown.  (Wow, where did all of the nicer store at Northlake go?)

[RANYC]

6 hours ago, gman430 said:

You have hit the nail on the head. All of the homeless people and crime around the complex which is in large part due to the bus depot being right there is why people including myself quit visiting. It just doesn’t seem like to me Epicentre management and the City of Charlotte were doing enough to combat the problem and still aren’t to this day. 

In theory, an entertainment complex with drinking would be well-placed adjacent to a node of mass transit.  Such placement offers greater access to multi-model patrons, and provides a non-car alternative to intoxicated revelers.  I've not been around Charlotte's Uptown bus terminal enough to have an opinion on whether it's a source of crime for a venue like Epicenter.  There's nothing inherently dangerous about a bus station as far as I know.  And while the homeless may be uncomfortable to look at, especially when shopping  or reveling, does homelessness itself pose a risk of violence to the onlooker?  Not denying, however, that tons of people don't want to be in or near spaces where they're visually reminded of homelessness and poverty, and make relatively quick leaps associating these situations with the threat of crime and harm.   

6 minutes ago, Cityplanner said:

Epicentre is really just the wrong use of the site.

A block surrounded by a Ritz-Carlton, BofA office buildings and business-oriented hotels ought to have things that appeal to higher-income office workers. 

Get rid of the businesses (if any remain) that attract a rough crowd and rebuild the site so that is elegant, it's easily accessible from the Ritz-Carlton and BofA office buildings and hotels, and so that it's not accessible from the bus station.

And then re-tenant it.  Bring in a small collection of high-end retail stores (things that ought to be in Founders Hall, but aren't) and business-oriented restaurants.

As Northlake Mall empties out, the stores that were on its upper level may choose to come to the Epicentre: an Apple store and a few others that I see on its directory: Chico's, Loft and White House Black Market are certainly stores that would appeal to some office workers uptown.  (Wow, where did all of the nicer store at Northlake go?)

I can agree with this...

[JacksonH]

11 hours ago, RANYC said:

There's nothing inherently dangerous about a bus station as far as I know.  

If you were an Asian business owner you might feel differently.

[RANYC]

2 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

If you were an Asian business owner you might feel differently.

That current and unfortunate phenomenon isn't unique to bus stations.

[KJHburg]

^^^ this family's shop is at the Charlotte Transportation Center aka bus station next to the Epicenter.   

Man caught on camera trashing Korean-owned convenience store in uptown Charlotte - News Break

[KJHburg]

In terms of Epicenter I hope these financial woes possible foreclosure do not drag on for years .   

If a redevelopment is to take place why not a major employer oh one based across the street buy the block with the exceptions of hotels and redevelop some for the bank and then some apartments and some ground floor retail (and include affordable housing)   Yes I am talking about you BANK OF AMERICA  you are committed  to these causes  (affordable housing, center city development etc) this project needs your help and is across from the bank owned Ritz Carlton and your bank owned office towers.   How about a mid rise tower with some office space on lower levels and apartments above including some affordable units.  

[JacksonH]

13 hours ago, RANYC said:

That current and unfortunate phenomenon isn't unique to bus stations.

But unfortunately hate crimes around transit have become too common around the country.  I don't think it's about transit per se, other than it does bring all sorts of people together, including the worst among us.

https://www.mprnews.org/amp/story/2020/05/06/metro-transit-investigating-assault-at-green-line-station

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/miami-woman-called-anti-asian-slurs-during-encounter-over-masks-on-county-bus/2412739/?amp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/03/12/san-francisco-man-charged-with-hate-crimes-in-alleged-sexual-assault-at-san-jose-diridon-station/amp/

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/syrian-teen-attack-san-diego-trolley-investigated-hate-crime-2019-10-17/

http://www.twulocal100.org/story/asian-american-bus-operator-intervenes-stop-hate-crime-himself-assaulted

https://www.amny.com/news/disgusting-subway-spitter-commits-yet-another-anti-asian-hate-crime-aboard-moving-5-train/amp/

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/shocking-beating-of-man-on-subway-under-investigation-by-nypd-hate-crimes-taskforce.amp

https://qns.com/2021/03/bigot-assails-woman-on-subway-in-flushing-in-latest-anti-asian-hate-crime/

https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/public-safety/2021/03/14/he--took-away-my-freedom---anti-asian-hate-crime-survivor-fights-back

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-02-22/asian-american-man-attacked-rosemead?_amp=true

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/30/982745950/attack-on-asian-woman-in-manhattan-as-bystanders-watched-to-be-probed-as-hate-cr

https://chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/politics/2021/3/26/22340749/asian-american-hate-crimes-inhe-cho-atlanta

https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/local/man-receives-18-month-sentence-for-portland-bias-crime/283-d8419bf9-384e-4046-81ea-90ec8c7d637c

[RANYC]

I' d like to be clear on the argument here and relate it back to the message thread title.   

You've sent me 14 links to Asian hate incidents in the context of a discussion about the Epicenter's decline and the role of the CTC in that decline.  (By the way, Asian targeting, like any race-based targeting, is repugnant and embarassing, but given you posted 14 links, can you more roundly share the argument you're implying?)

I had made a point that, in theory, putting entertainment nodes along mass transit corridors (bus or rail) makes a lot of sense and attempts to get maximum value out of our substantial investments in transit.  Creating car-less access to places where lots of people congregate seems to be a good idea. 

Given that both light rail and buses stop at (or next to) the Epicenter, this adjacency would appear to be the model for what Charlotte should do with any planned entertainment districts where residents and tourists drink and revel in large numbers.  Arranging for car-less mobility to get people to and from a nightlife cluster/corridor should have been the one good thing Epicenter did - even if it ultimately failed for any number of other reasons.

But now, some of us contend that the CTC is killing the Epicenter.  Can we elaborate?

• Is the CTC problematic as a mass transit node because of its ease of access and ability to "bring all sorts of people together?"  Given most transit hubs similarly break down barriers to access for lots of different people, then was it a bad idea to locate Epicenter next to a mass transit center? 
• Is it that the CTC is unique among bus depots in its danger?  Is the CTC mismanaged, causing it to be uniquely dangerous?  Are bus depots in general dangerous, which creates the problem for Epicenter?  Is the CTC actually dangerous, or perceived as dangerous? 
• Based on the implied line of reasoning in the preceding posts here, are there lessons for Gateway?

Edited April 18, 2021 by RANYC

[kermit]

1 hour ago, RANYC said:

Is it that the CTC is unique among bus depots in its danger?  Is the CTC mismanaged, causing it to be uniquely dangerous?  Are bus depots in general dangerous, which creates the problem for Epicenter?  Is the CTC actually dangerous, or perceived as dangerous? 

While I don't want to weigh in on the characteristics of bus terminals in general, I will suggest that one of the things that makes some people concerned about the environment that CTC creates is the sense that people loiter there (this was an unfortunate word choice since these folks are not loitering, they are just waiting for their next bus). The perception of discomfort that people outside the CTC have largely comes from  the presence of these "loiterers". Their number could be  greatly reduced with higher frequency bus service which would reduce the amount of time people need to spend at CTC waiting for their transfer.

Edited April 18, 2021 by kermit

[Cityplanner]

Unfortunately buses at non-rush hours likely attract a clientele that cannot afford a car, so being right next to the bus station helps that demographic access the Epicentre.