Jump to content

210 Trade | EpiCentre


monsoon

Recommended Posts


In terms of Epicenter I hope these financial woes possible foreclosure do not drag on for years .   

If a redevelopment is to take place why not a major employer oh one based across the street buy the block with the exceptions of hotels and redevelop some for the bank and then some apartments and some ground floor retail (and include affordable housing)   Yes I am talking about you BANK OF AMERICA  you are committed  to these causes  (affordable housing, center city development etc) this project needs your help and is across from the bank owned Ritz Carlton and your bank owned office towers.   How about a mid rise tower with some office space on lower levels and apartments above including some affordable units.  

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, RANYC said:

That current and unfortunate phenomenon isn't unique to bus stations.

But unfortunately hate crimes around transit have become too common around the country.  I don't think it's about transit per se, other than it does bring all sorts of people together, including the worst among us.

https://www.mprnews.org/amp/story/2020/05/06/metro-transit-investigating-assault-at-green-line-station

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/miami-woman-called-anti-asian-slurs-during-encounter-over-masks-on-county-bus/2412739/?amp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/03/12/san-francisco-man-charged-with-hate-crimes-in-alleged-sexual-assault-at-san-jose-diridon-station/amp/

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/syrian-teen-attack-san-diego-trolley-investigated-hate-crime-2019-10-17/

http://www.twulocal100.org/story/asian-american-bus-operator-intervenes-stop-hate-crime-himself-assaulted

https://www.amny.com/news/disgusting-subway-spitter-commits-yet-another-anti-asian-hate-crime-aboard-moving-5-train/amp/

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/shocking-beating-of-man-on-subway-under-investigation-by-nypd-hate-crimes-taskforce.amp

https://qns.com/2021/03/bigot-assails-woman-on-subway-in-flushing-in-latest-anti-asian-hate-crime/

https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/public-safety/2021/03/14/he--took-away-my-freedom---anti-asian-hate-crime-survivor-fights-back

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-02-22/asian-american-man-attacked-rosemead?_amp=true

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/30/982745950/attack-on-asian-woman-in-manhattan-as-bystanders-watched-to-be-probed-as-hate-cr

https://chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/politics/2021/3/26/22340749/asian-american-hate-crimes-inhe-cho-atlanta

https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/local/man-receives-18-month-sentence-for-portland-bias-crime/283-d8419bf9-384e-4046-81ea-90ec8c7d637c

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I' d like to be clear on the argument here and relate it back to the message thread title.   

You've sent me 14 links to Asian hate incidents in the context of a discussion about the Epicenter's decline and the role of the CTC in that decline.  (By the way, Asian targeting, like any race-based targeting, is repugnant and embarassing, but given you posted 14 links, can you more roundly share the argument you're implying?)

I had made a point that, in theory, putting entertainment nodes along mass transit corridors (bus or rail) makes a lot of sense and attempts to get maximum value out of our substantial investments in transit.  Creating car-less access to places where lots of people congregate seems to be a good idea. 

Given that both light rail and buses stop at (or next to) the Epicenter, this adjacency would appear to be the model for what Charlotte should do with any planned entertainment districts where residents and tourists drink and revel in large numbers.  Arranging for car-less mobility to get people to and from a nightlife cluster/corridor should have been the one good thing Epicenter did - even if it ultimately failed for any number of other reasons.

But now, some of us contend that the CTC is killing the Epicenter.  Can we elaborate?

  • Is the CTC problematic as a mass transit node because of its ease of access and ability to "bring all sorts of people together?"  Given most transit hubs similarly break down barriers to access for lots of different people, then was it a bad idea to locate Epicenter next to a mass transit center? 
  • Is it that the CTC is unique among bus depots in its danger?  Is the CTC mismanaged, causing it to be uniquely dangerous?  Are bus depots in general dangerous, which creates the problem for Epicenter?  Is the CTC actually dangerous, or perceived as dangerous? 
  • Based on the implied line of reasoning in the preceding posts here, are there lessons for Gateway?
Edited by RANYC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RANYC said:

Is it that the CTC is unique among bus depots in its danger?  Is the CTC mismanaged, causing it to be uniquely dangerous?  Are bus depots in general dangerous, which creates the problem for Epicenter?  Is the CTC actually dangerous, or perceived as dangerous? 

While I don't want to weigh in on the characteristics of bus terminals in general, I will suggest that one of the things that makes some people concerned about the environment that CTC creates is the sense that people loiter there (this was an unfortunate word choice since these folks are not loitering, they are just waiting for their next bus). The perception of discomfort that people outside the CTC have largely comes from  the presence of these "loiterers". Their number could be  greatly reduced with higher frequency bus service which would reduce the amount of time people need to spend at CTC waiting for their transfer.

Edited by kermit
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: CTC. 
 

The solution was to move the bus-riders away. So the current situation is just a hold-out until it could  be bulldozed and built elsewhere. 

It seems the wiser thing to do would have been to invest money into CTC. Upgrade the station to appeal to wider swaths. Pump money into it. 
 

I am sure there are a few key routes that could work with the right frequency, reliability and a decent station terminus. 

Edited by AirNostrumMAD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cityplanner said:

Unfortunately buses at non-rush hours likely attract a clientele that cannot afford a car, so being right next to the bus station helps that demographic access the Epicentre. 

Hmm, if Charlotte is to be a next-level city with a multi-dimensional view of mobility, then it can't have this mindset - jumping to a conclusion that "clientele" not in their own cars are a problem, or that public transportation (in this case, bus) riders as a class are deplorable.  I think this is the wrong approach and probably has a dangerous slippery slope.

Edited by RANYC
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


25 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Hmm, if Charlotte is to be a next-level city with a multi-dimensional view of mobility, then it can't have this mindset - jumping to a conclusion that "clientele" not in their own cars are a problem, or that public transportation (in this case, bus) riders as a class are deplorable.  I think this is the wrong approach and probably has a dangerous slippery slope.

Well, I’m very pro-transit and have worked in CATS advocacy within government.

Facts are facts.  Bus riders at off hours are not high-income.  Should transit be improved so that it appeals to more people?  Yes.  But denying facts serves no purpose.  Shall we pretend that bus riders who use the transit center late at night are upper-income?  If so, what good would that do?

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Cityplanner said:

Well, I’m very pro-transit and have worked in CATS advocacy within government.

Facts are facts.  Bus riders at off hours are not high-income.  Should transit be improved so that it appeals to more people?  Yes.  But denying facts serves no purpose.  Shall we pretend that bus riders who use the transit center late at night are upper-income?  If so, what good would that do?

"Bus riders at off hours are not high-income." - Who said they were, and who said they had to be?

But denying facts serves no purpose. - What facts have been denied?

Shall we pretend that bus riders who use the transit center late at night are upper-income?   Clearly, no one in this thread is generalizing bus riders as high-income.  But, by the same measure, it's just as gross a generalization to say that a transit center full of bus riders who happen to be low-income must therefore be a source of crime hindering the Epicenter?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, RANYC said:

"Bus riders at off hours are not high-income." - Who said they were, and who said they had to be?

But denying facts serves no purpose. - What facts have been denied?

Shall we pretend that bus riders who use the transit center late at night are upper-income?   Clearly, no one in this thread is generalizing bus riders as high-income.  But, by the same measure, it's just as gross a generalization to say that a transit center full of bus riders who happen to be low-income must therefore be a source of crime hindering the Epicenter?

All I stated was the exact text in each of my posts, and then you attacked my “mindset” and claimed that I view certain groups of people as “deplorable” and a “problem”.  I found your response extremely offensive and judgmental.  Don’t read things into what people say.  I say what I mean and mean what I say.  If I wanted to make disparaging statements, I would, but I did not.  I simply stated facts.  As someone who is and has been heavily involved in pro-transit and pro-social justice work, I am very offended by your posts.   You’re the one who is making offensive statements.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm convinced a big part of the CTC crime is the design of the place. It's dark, it feels like it's underground due to the light rail bridge above it and the shops on either side of the bus bays, and there obviously wasn't any real money put into the materials of it. It just feels like a bad place to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Cityplanner said:

All I stated was the exact text in each of my posts, and then you attacked my “mindset” and claimed that I view certain groups of people as “deplorable” and a “problem”.  I found your response extremely offensive and judgmental.  Don’t read things into what people say.  I say what I mean and mean what I say.  If I wanted to make disparaging statements, I would, but I did not.  I simply stated facts.  As someone who is and has been heavily involved in pro-transit and pro-social justice work, I am very offended by your posts.   You’re the one who is making offensive statements.

I used to go there from time to time - just to clumsy and not coherent, I don't know, just didn't get it.  Let's be real about the situation, it's just a poorly structured building and the lack of usage has nothing to do with the transit location or crime - it would still be a bust.  I do think your post infers a hint of (poor black people are the problem and they scare the white people away). which isn't true, it was a failed plan and a failed design......stop trying to blame poor or "low-income" black people for everything damn thing.    It's in the middle of the city and like any city, you're gonna see a lot of crazy stuff and if anyone is too afraid to venture to the Epicentre during off hours due to crime should just stay in the burbs. It is basically the same in all urban cities, especially near vibrant areas.

Rethink, re-purpose and re-design the thing...it could probably work.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Durhamite said:

I used to go there from time to time - just to clumsy and not coherent, I don't know, just didn't get it.  Let's be real about the situation, it's just a poorly structured building and the lack of usage has nothing to do with the transit location or crime - it would still be a bust.  I do think your post infers a hint of (poor black people are the problem and they scare the white people away). which isn't true, it was a failed plan and a failed design......stop trying to blame poor or "low-income" black people for everything damn thing.    It's in the middle of the city and like any city, you're gonna see a lot of crazy stuff and if anyone is too afraid to venture to the Epicentre during off hours due to crime should just stay in the burbs. It is basically the same in all urban cities, especially near vibrant areas.

Rethink, re-purpose and re-design the thing...it could probably work.

I agree with your assessment. The Epicenter was successful for a time. The social/party scene isn't the same as when the Epicenter opened. Breweries and bars with other amenities than just dancing and loud music are in now days. Uptown used to be the center of the bar/club scene, now South end is now the center of the bar/brewery scene since clubs are not as popular now days

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who owns those lots near CTC in that quadrant?  I’ve been shocked that these lots have stayed undeveloped for so long especially the one right next to the 3rdst/CC light rail station. I think development will help CTC. I was excited but at the same time surprised that Moxy hotel chose the location they did. The surrounding area around our arena is severely under utilized as well. The arena actually has a lot of retail slots along trade but only has a barber shop. I mean there’s  no where but up for the Epicentre right now lol so things should  improve. Are the epicentre owners competent? Do they have a vision or plan on what they want the epicentre to become?  Precovid there were talks about tenant shifts etc but not much from them now. If anything Covid has helped expedite tenants leaving. Owners should have a blank slate for all the vacancies. Just hope they have a concrete vision. 
 

Another thought too, I really think the failed 50+ story condominium really changed the trajectory of the epicentre. Instead of high end expensive condos, we were left with a middle of the pack Marriott hotel (Aloft) for years. Imagine a Vue caliber tower on top of the epicentre, coupled with atherton mill type retail (Sephora, lulumon, anthropology, etc). And if the epicentre was thriving with all of this, we wouldn’t be deep diving into CTC analytics lol. CTC would merely just be exactly that, our CTC. 

Edited by CharlotteWkndBuzz
Link to comment
Share on other sites


10 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

Quite. Look at the roofing at Epicenter on Google maps. It is horrifying. 

This is an old pic, but I was really surprised when the hotel didn't utilize the rooftop part of the Epicentre.  Could have been a massive outdoor event space or seating area.  Like I said earlier though, it's at rock bottom pretty much, only direction is up from here.  

old.thumb.png.7a9e15dd91398ede0c011525c20be7f2.png

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, theronhobbs said:

At the time of the 2D (and 3D) Google imagery, the hotel tower was under construction. There was a construction elevator on 4th Street, and the roof was used as a lay-down area during the course of construction. Building inspections would not allow the roof to be used as any type of storage afterwards as well. While the building does have its issues, this image was a temporary condition.

041921.JPG

The standing water on other sections of the roof stands s a counter point. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Rufus said:

Anyone know how this is affecting Aloft, AC, and Residence Inn? I'm really more interested in Aloft since it has been there the longest. Is it fairly busy? Is it holding up well? 

The Aloft is a mixed bag as the older one from a guest perspective. There are definitely better hotels Uptown now. On Marriott's own website it has some pretty awful reviews and only a 3.3 / 5.0 from ~550+ people on Marriott's website, with the main complaints recently being cleanliness, water pressure, the parking deck / bad valet / parking cost, and noise. Several reviews point out all the closed spots in Epicentre, but typically assume the blame is fully on COVID ("shame to see businesses closed around it due to COVID"). 

In addition to Marriott's own website it has a 4.0 from Google Reviews, 3.5 from TripAdvisor, a 4.0 from Expedia, and a 3.0 from Yelp. 

Edited by CLT2014
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

The Aloft is a mixed bag as the older one from a guest perspective. There are definitely better hotels Uptown now. On Marriott's own website it has some pretty awful reviews and only a 3.3 / 5.0 from ~550+ people on Marriott's website, with the main complaints recently being cleanliness, water pressure, the parking deck / bad valet / parking cost, and noise. Several reviews point out all the closed spots in Epicentre, but typically assume the blame is fully on COVID ("shame to see businesses closed around it due to COVID"). 

In addition to Marriott's own website it has a 4.0 from Google Reviews, 3.5 from TripAdvisor, a 4.0 from Expedia, and a 3.0 from Yelp. 

I feel like the Aloft brand is sort of the hotel version of the Epicentre: might have been on-trend 10-15 years ago but times have changed and the brand hasn't. I don't know anyone who actively looks to stay in an Aloft hotel anymore. I mean, this is the first photo you see when you go to their website. The color, shape design, and photo look like they're 10 years old. The whole website looks like it might as well be for Simon Malls.

image.thumb.png.deaa5c7113504f3b0360227cb7c0c714.png

Edited by Madison Parkitect
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.