210 Trade | EpiCentre

[Bled_man]

Please pardon my ignorance on this subject, but can anyone explain (or point me in the right direction) the flat rectangular shapes that seem to be built into the floors of this project. They are visible on the eastern side of the hotel base. From what I have seen on the webcam, the shapes are built and then concrete poured over them? I assume they are a reinforcement, but I can't seem to find a good definition online. Just curious if anyone knows.

To clarify, here's an image:

It is the formwork for the floor system of concrete beams and slabs. The rectangular shapes you see are the slab portions where the concrete will be 5-8" thick while the voids are where the beams are. The large voids running up and down in the picture are the girders and the smaller voids running side to side are the floor beams. Hope this helps.

[origin.clt]

It is the formwork for the floor system of concrete beams and slabs. The rectangular shapes you see are the slab portions where the concrete will be 5-8" thick while the voids are where the beams are. The large voids running up and down in the picture are the girders and the smaller voids running side to side are the floor beams. Hope this helps.

^ here is a graphical representation of that. the dark squares are column locations, the lightest blue are girders, the darker blue are beams, and slab layer covers all of them.

the green arrows demonstrate how a load placed at the location of the green circle is ideally transferred through the system and to the ground.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Mugen682

[lsu1977]

This is what I posted would happen last year. It has too...there is no way to strip down the exterior enough to make things works.

I am not sure. Last I talked to the architects, they are still keeping the metal panel on the job. The reason that it is a curtain-wall/metal project is crane-time. Ghazi has a clause with Flaherty and Collins about restriction of tower crane use. Ghazi does not want any cranes flying over the retail complex after a certain date. I believe each day F&C violates that is $10K.

There are things they can do to "cheapen" the building on the exterior. Aluminum slab covers, rail design, pool deck materials, and curtainwall manufacturor are some possible VE items.

Over 60% of the units are sold so I don't see how they can cut any unit interior finishes (not that high end to begin with). BUT the common spaces can prob take a major tuning...

[lsu1977]

It is the formwork for the floor system of concrete beams and slabs. The rectangular shapes you see are the slab portions where the concrete will be 5-8" thick while the voids are where the beams are. The large voids running up and down in the picture are the girders and the smaller voids running side to side are the floor beams. Hope this helps.

Once they pass 4th floor, they will be using a post-tension slab system, which will only have flat form work and Post Tension steel cables embedded.

[monsoon]

Can someone explain what "European Style" means in regards to this building.

[Guest]

Honestly I am not sure. The style has been described as such on multiple occasionions. I'm not sure however, that it is the proper description. The plazas will have cobble stone plazas, wrought iron and wood signage, and natural gas lit lanterns on the walls. I think the european nature that is being referred to is the presence of outdoor seating outside of the restaurants.

[MZT]

There is some precedent. Ghazi arranged some nice stonework and fountains at the Park Road project, in front of the restaurants there.

[monsoon]

Ahh so his "European Style" means to make a faux 18th century London streetscape and not what a European urban development might look like today.

[New Name]

hopefully it won't look like the olive garden

[Guest]

Ahh so his "European Style" means to make a faux 18th century London streetscape and not what a European urban development might look like today.

And New Urbanism at its worst invades I-277, the addition of a half dozen raving brand products to downtown is a tragedy. I still have some hope for this project however, it will still extended the college streeet activity. With the addition of Dale Earnhardts country club, a comedy club, a couple lanes, a couple screens, and some great bars, I might be able to excuse some hokey styling and architecture. The prospects of a good soft goods store like banana republic also excites me.

[Justadude]

The hokiness of the streetscape will bother urbanists and development geeks, but let's face it... most people who visit the site will probably enjoy the cobblestone and find it all very "quaint".

[Miesian Corners]

^Except those of us who despise EFIS when used as faux stone and cornice work. Ugh. Another fake streetscape for Charlotte. Give me the Europe of today and I'd be excited about this. Give me the Europe of the 19th Century and before at EpiCentre and I'll amazed at what developers can do with plastic these days.

[Guest]

^Except those of us who despise EFIS when used as faux stone and cornice work. Ugh. Another fake streetscape for Charlotte. Give me the Europe of today and I'd be excited about this. Give me the Europe of the 19th Century and before at EpiCentre and I'll amazed at what developers can do with plastic these days.

Actually this will be made of real stone, of decent quality. The quality will be better than Park Towne Village, if thats what everyone is expecting. And last time I checked this is downtown charlottes first attempt at a street level entertainment complex in fifty or so years, so if nothing else epicenter will give us a chance to learn. So embrace the possibilities, because there is a lot you can do with 300k sq feet of retail.

[monsoon]

I don't think it matters much what materials are used to create the fake looking place. Because it doesn't aspire to nothing more than a disney land type of environment, we can expect that it will be torn out in 20 years and replaced by something else. It would have been nice if the developer had decided to put up something that would endure time and be admired by future generations. Charlotte will never have an identity as long as developers here are too afraid to try the unique and different which is done in most European cities, even small ones, today.

BTW there were cobblestone streets in Carowinds when it opened. I don't think anyone paid much attention to them after some point and when Paramount bought the place they covered them in asphalt because it is easier for pedestrians, deliveries, etc.

[uptownliving]

The building permit for the 210 Condo tower was issued late last week. It is for the structure only and is valued at $20.2M. According to the permit it will be 44 stories tall and contain 785,000 sq ft of floor space.

[Charlotteman]

Is this new? I thought the tower was supposed to be 53 floors.

[orulz]

This is only the permit for the tower. The tower goes on top of the base. The base is 5 stories. Previously, we had been hearing that the tower would be 48 stories; however, now they're saying 44. So, previously, 5 + 48 = 53. Now, 5 + 44 = 49. This means one of two things:

1. The way floors are counted for the building permits are different than the way we count them (ie, mechanical floors are not counted, etc) or..

2. The tower has been shortened by 4 floors, the result of value engineering. IMO, the loss of 4 floors and a couple dozen feet on this tower would be totally a non-issue, though skyscraper fanboys all over the Queen City will probably cry out in protest.

[sleightofhand]

I don't think it matters much what materials are used to create the fake looking place. Because it doesn't aspire to nothing more than a disney land type of environment, we can expect that it will be torn out in 20 years and replaced by something else. It would have been nice if the developer had decided to put up something that would endure time and be admired by future generations. Charlotte will never have an identity as long as developers here are too afraid to try the unique and different which is done in most European cities, even small ones, today.

BTW there were cobblestone streets in Carowinds when it opened. I don't think anyone paid much attention to them after some point and when Paramount bought the place they covered them in asphalt because it is easier for pedestrians, deliveries, etc.

I'm just glad someone is attempting to bring some level of retail. I guess it's possible that when it's finished I'll be dissapointed in the quality but I doubt it.

[Guest]

The building permit for the 210 Condo tower was issued late last week. It is for the structure only and is valued at $20.2M. According to the permit it will be 44 stories tall and contain 785,000 sq ft of floor space.

Thats Sounds about right, I wonder if the 2 story penthouses are considered one story or anything.

This is only the permit for the tower. The tower goes on top of the base. The base is 5 stories. Previously, we had been hearing that the tower would be 48 stories; however, now they're saying 44. So, previously, 5 + 48 = 53. Now, 5 + 44 = 49. This means one of two things:

1. The way floors are counted for the building permits are different than the way we count them (ie, mechanical floors are not counted, etc) or..

2. The tower has been shortened by 4 floors, the result of value engineering. IMO, the loss of 4 floors and a couple dozen feet on this tower would be totally a non-issue, though skyscraper fanboys all over the Queen City will probably cry out in protest.

If you look at the residences section on 210trade, it starts at the 5th story and ends at 47/48, so I have been expecting an announcement like this. I'm just glad they have issued the building permits. As soon as the 5 story base is finished this building will go up like a rocket. It has a floor space much smaller than avenue, so it should go up a ilttle bit quicker.

[dubone]

I am very happy to hear that it will not be Ghazi's standard EFIS. The retail space will be a major boost to the area. I think finally there can be space so that all the new residents of uptown and the light rail riders can support some retail, or convince their favorite retailer to move in. Even if the mix of shops and restaurants is a bit cheesy at first (which may or may not be the case), I think just having the space will help it evolve and grow as more people move in.

I already know a few places that I will be regulars for, and a few places I will go on occassion.

I think all new retail in brand new buildings has the effect of being contrived and cheesy. It is an effect of American retail culture. There are no old buildings left for a good old-fashioned shopping district, so all we get now is new space that risks the Disney label.

Ghazi has likely made some critical errors on this project, namely the lack of direct retail along Trade and 4th, and the relative monolithic design of the complex, without any attempt to vary each retail spot. However, he has done some major things right, especially the underlying land use. By having condo, retail, office and hotel on the same block, he has started this project off with a chance of success at baseline retail support, and longer hours of liveliness. By focusing on tenants that are the type of retailers for which there is a current market, entertainment and restaurant, he has reduced the risk of overreaching, (although it is disappointing to not get the merchandise retailers that most wish could be there) helping it to actually have early success or stability. He has created a lot of outdoor space that can be accessed 24-7, such as the plaza walkways on either side of the central building that connects to Overstreet. Not only does it interact with College Street, helping to redeem that awful corridor a bit, but it pulls people outdoors from the Overstreet Mall, as well as provides a number of retail-lined walking routes to the main LRT station.

I am sure there are other technical design flaws and merits, but I think as long as that retail space facing the outdoors is successful, this project will become a major anchor for pedestrian activity, and support for people visiting downtown as a 'place'.

I remember when I was first moving to Charlotte, the plans for the old Civic Center were a hot topic. It was part of what made me take notice that uptown was growing. Then, that project was cancelled along with many other projects around downtown, and everything seemed to be in a doldrums. I'm just so happy that this business cycle has allowed so many of the major projects to actually come to fruition, and many more than we could have imagined. I have a feeling that this generation of projects will see more success than past efforts at the same, because more of the fundamental market is in place. But I guess only time will tell.

[UrbanCharlotte]

How sure are we Fox Sports Grill is still coming? Charlotte has been removed from the Coming Soon locations.

[jednc]

Question for someone who knows more about construction than I do (which should be almost anyone...). When you apply for a building permit, is that the first step toward actual construction or is it the last step?

In other words, since TTT has applied for and received tower construction permitting, should we see work start immediately (within the next 10-14 days) or is this just a first step of many to get to the point of construction?

I know the foundation floor count is only 3 at the moment (out of 5), so I assume we're at least looking at time to get 2 more floors poured before the tower starts.

I guess to simplify things...what's anyone's best guess as to when the tower starts going up?

[schmopperX]

Question for someone who knows more about construction than I do (which should be almost anyone...). When you apply for a building permit, is that the first step toward actual construction or is it the last step?

In other words, since TTT has applied for and received tower construction permitting, should we see work start immediately (within the next 10-14 days) or is this just a first step of many to get to the point of construction?

I know the foundation floor count is only 3 at the moment (out of 5), so I assume we're at least looking at time to get 2 more floors poured before the tower starts.

I guess to simplify things...what's anyone's best guess as to when the tower starts going up?

At the point you receive your building permit, that is the final step before construction should start. Unless there is some redesign, construction should start soon. I know that most building permits expire after a certain amount of time and it can be expensive to re-apply.

In short, all the design is complete and construction should start as soon as they finish the 5 story base.

[UrbanCharlotte]

Yea, they should start immediately. Next week they'll pour floor 4 and move onto floor 5 and pour that early the next week. After that straight up to 50.

[atlrvr]

I was under the impression that a different General Contractor is handling the tower that the one handling the base. Is this still the case? If so, I would imagine that there would be some lag, as the new GC has to set up on site, and schedule subs.