210 Trade | EpiCentre

[Raintree21]

Was there tonight and once again each bar was packed. However, the thing that struck me the most was the fact that the cement stairs were in poor shape. I'd say about every third stair and most of the landings had cracks in them already. What's the deal?

[uptowner]

Was there tonight and once again each bar was packed. However, the thing that struck me the most was the fact that the cement stairs were in poor shape. I'd say about every third stair and most of the landings had cracks in them already. What's the deal?

Lol... I noticed that too. There are no expansion joints in those areas.

[monsoon]

While this project looks good from a distance, I noticed too that closer inspection reveals a pretty bad spec level on the actual construction. It's certainly not of the same caliber as the nearby bank towers.

[tozmervo]

I'm gonna cheat a little bit and repost my comments from back in May:

I had the chance to wonder around Epicenter last night and my summary judgement is that, from a distance, this is a really nice project.

But up close, it has some of the worst detailing I've ever seen in a building. Now, granted, its still under construction and there are issues left to be resolved. But take the stairs that curve up in the inner courtyard: its a bold move, giant steel stairs that appear unsupported, maximizing the space around them for party goers. But up close, the steel flanges are already collecting debris, the underside metal ceiling is bent around the edges, and the support beam that holds up the stair just sticks out of the column and into the stair. No detailing at all. I hope there's some kind of protective sleeve on the way to finish off this connection, because it looks pretty trashy.

Overall, it is shaping up to be a really nice (and successful?) project commercially and spatially. But good is in the details, and I hope those don't undo Epicenter in the long run.

Sounds like the long run was optimistic - I wonder if we're looking at the short run now.

[Charlotte_native]

We were out at Epicentre this past Saturday night. Lines down Church street to get into the building, then lines at each bar to get in. It really doesn't feel like being in Charlotte at all. I guess it shouldn't since we've never had an entertainment complex on this scale before -- I just can't wait/imagine what it will be like when all the other restaurants, cafes, and bars are open (along with bowling).

Side, sadder note -- HOM seems to be really hurting from this.

[fulcrumsf]

What really eurks me about this project is that it still doesn't seem to have any retail yet. I'm all fine with adding a couple of new restaurants and clubs, but what about a book store, a clothing store, a drug store, a shoe store, or any other retail store that would serve all the people that live and work in the center city. Something to help fill in the need for some street front retail Charlotte is still lacking.

[Guest]

What really eurks me about this project is that it still doesn't seem to have any retail yet. I'm all fine with adding a couple of new restaurants and clubs, but what about a book store, a clothing store, a drug store, a shoe store, or any other retail store that would serve all the people that live and work in the center city. Something to help fill in the need for some street front retail Charlotte is still lacking.

When the space is completed, there will be all of the above, with exception of a bookstore (at least to my knowledge). There will be a CVS, Rock & Roll Emporiums new incarnation: Revolution, Anthropologie, JoS. A Bank, a shoe store, Etc. A bookstore would definately be nice, as would a music store.

[nyxmike]

Where did you hear about Anthropologie? If that is true, then maybe we can get some more mid to upscale retail Uptown, like a Hugo Boss or something.

[BlueDevil37]

Is there any news or updated dates at all regarding upcoming restaurant/movie theater/bowling openings at Epicentre? It seems like it's been months with no updates on dates. Thanks.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Does anyone think that Ghazi will get another company to finish Two Ten Trade?

From the web cam, you can see them cleaning up the work site and removing everything.

Edited July 22, 2008 by RiverwoodCLT

[sleightofhand]

Does anyone think that Ghazi will get another company to finish Two Ten Trade?

From the web cam, you can see them cleaning up the work site and removing everything.

Funny, but just yesterday I heard that F&C were looking for a partner to finish the project.

[DjStedali]

Its definitely good to see Ghazi wants to see his portion of the project go through, which we all kinda knew he did. If these wages with Clayco indeed were to be paid by Flaherty & Collins then F&C just keep digging themselves into a bigger hole. Someone brought up earlier about Ghazi finding someone else to finish the tower and I think he would if the matter with F&C wasnt resolved in about a year or so. More than likely wouldnt be the same design but the structure could be the same just different fascade.

[monsoon]

Just a reminder to not to post link only posts, especially link only posts to the CBJ. They will be deleted. We are a discussion site, not a news clipping site.

[AuLukey]

Its definitely good to see Ghazi wants to see his portion of the project go through, which we all kinda knew he did. If these wages with Clayco indeed were to be paid by Flaherty & Collins then F&C just keep digging themselves into a bigger hole. Someone brought up earlier about Ghazi finding someone else to finish the tower and I think he would if the matter with F&C wasnt resolved in about a year or so. More than likely wouldnt be the same design but the structure could be the same just different fascade.

I'm assuming this is what will happen as the foundation for a 50 story tower has already been poured. Did Ghazi pay for that or was it F&C who funded that portion of the foundation for the development?

[atlrvr]

Depends on what portion you are talking about...the true "foundation" was funded by Ghazi, but the completed portion of the residential tower I believe was funded by F&C.

I believe part of the contention of Ghazi's lawsuit is that he over delivered the base of the tower in anticipation of a high-rise structure. It could have been built much cheaper had this only been a 5 story building.

[Raintree21]

Clayco Inc. and The Ghazi Co. have reportedly reached a settlement in a $7.15 million lien. This will supposedly let more of the retail portion to open up.

[Charlotte_native]

Clayco Inc. and The Ghazi Co. have reportedly reached a settlement in a $7.15 million lien. This will supposedly let more of the retail portion to open up.

Not surprising -- most lawsuits filed never make to a courtroom other than for a hearing or two. Too much wasted money enriching attorney's for that! Don't be surprised if the other suit with the residential portion never gets much further either. Far better for all parties to find common ground and settle.

[monsoon]

If the tower ever gets back on track I think they are going to have to cancel all contracts and resell the units. That is because since the time when this tower started selling commodity prices have risen as follows:

• Fabricated Building Steel - 19.3%
  
• Steel Pipe and Tube - 17.7%
  
• Nonferrous Pipe and Tube - 135.7%
  
• Prestressed Concrete - 22.5%
  
• Precast Concrete Products - 21.0%
  
• Diesel Fuel - 108.2%
  

There have been similar increases in almost everything needed to build a tower down to the fixtures used in the bathrooms, flooring materials, wood and stone products, etc. There have been suppositions posted here that have placed the demise of 210 trade on the fact it was under priced in the first place. If that is indeed the case, then most likely this tower is going to have to move at least to the pricing model of The Vue in order to get off the ground. Can Charlotte handle two of these at the same time in this economy and the end of cheap and easy financing? I don't think so.

[rockhilljames]

If the tower ever gets back on track I think they are going to have to cancel all contracts and resell the units.

Plus, I imagine the legal process will take so long that most of the buyers will have moved on anyway.

[Charlotte_native]

On one hand we have certain people who adore pointing out what uptown doesn't have, then when uptown gets it, sneers at those who are happy about it. No one is singly 'pumped up' about an ice cream store, just happy that the former gaps in what was available are being filled in. Some on this forum never like anything that happens in center city Charlotte -- one has to wonder why they even care. They also like to refer to uptown as nothing but a place to 'get drunk' so an ice cream store (or i guess an outhouse) ought to be something that pleased them.

No one gets excited about what is added to a mall because malls are a dime a dozen around here and openings and closings there happen all the time.

It sucks on this site to constantly wonder when someone connected to the site will try and make those who are happy about something feel stupid about it. Lets see how long before this is deleted.

[carolinabeachmom]

Does anyone know if the city of Charlotte is trying to moderate between Ghazi and F&C? It is in the city's best interest to have the 210 tower done. Also, is there a court date yet - or is there still action between the two parties to get this settled out of court?

[monsoon]

I cleaned up this topic of the ice cream posts since they continued even after dubone's request to use the other topic for it. The next one earns a suspension. Don't say you were not warned.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

Is there any reson why the crane is still up? They must be a lot closer to a resolution than it sounds. I wouldn't keep a rented crane up for 3 weeks or more after an impending lawsuit, unless it is about to be thrown out.

[Charlotte_native]

Is there any reson why the crane is still up? They must be a lot closer to a resolution than it sounds. I wouldn't keep a rented crane up for 3 weeks or more after an impending lawsuit, unless it is about to be thrown out.

From what I've been told they really aren't close to a resolution but they are working to find one. Neither Ghazi nor FC will 'win' even if they win a full blown lawsuit and neither wants to go that far. Both fully believe that other is negligent. Negotiations are taking place -- the intent is to build a residential tower and resolve these current issues. Who builds and whether old contracts and former buyers are a part of it will be a toss up. Personal guess, expect a totally different builder and a new launch of a different (named) project with new contracts and prices.

[rockhilljames]

My guess is that the crane rental has probably already been paid for up to a certain time. No need to have someone take it down unless it's needed somewhere else.

Edited July 31, 2008 by rockhilljames