210 Trade | EpiCentre

[abttown]

I'm pretty sure the blue and yellow coloring is Aloft's signature. After Googling the brand, it appears as if many of the Aloft hotels around the country also have colored paneling beside the windows. I agree though that this could look a little better.

[dubone]

Don't forget to read and write about the retailers in Epicentre here:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/EpiCentr...ail-t10884.html

(I moved the comments about Mez there.)

[Munson79]

What is the latest with this thing going vertical? I remember that there were issues and court dates set between developers. Does anyone have an update on EpiCentre?

[Guest]

What is the latest with this thing going vertical? I remember that there were issues and court dates set between developers. Does anyone have an update on EpiCentre?

The dispute was resolved 2 months ago at least. However no news on whether this will go vertical or not...

[Spartan]

Really? What was the outcome? I thought we were in for a long series of court cases.

[uptownliving]

The Building Code violations were resolved but the court cases still remain. Also...Flaherty & Collins still needs to get financing lined up for this tower and in this economic environment I dont see that happening. I think this tower as we currently know it is pretty much dead.

[monsoon]

I don't think the people have gotten their deposits back however. They are caught in limbo.

[UrbanFuture]

I witnessed F&H moving things out of their office at M street the other day... not a good sign they will be around to develop it.

[dubone]

I suspect this pretty much proves Ghazi's case, that the real problem was the economic and credit situation, and that the code violations were a red herring. There is probably something to be said for the fact that code violations help push things out into the bad credit environment, but that isn't really Ghazi fault that the credit dried up.

We might well be getting to the point where litigation stops (here and elsewhere) and everyone just accepts that it sucks for everyone right now, and it is no one's fault (on a micro scale).

[uptownliving]

I don't think the people have gotten their deposits back however. They are caught in limbo.

I think that in a couple more months the contracts will all expire and everyone will get their money back.

[tozmervo]

A minor point worth mentioning - the bridge connecting Epicenter to the CTC Lynx station is now fully open and accessible. Hurrah!

[Spartan]

Its about time!

[sleightofhand]

I suspect this pretty much proves Ghazi's case, that the real problem was the economic and credit situation, and that the code violations were a red herring. There is probably something to be said for the fact that code violations help push things out into the bad credit environment, but that isn't really Ghazi fault that the credit dried up.

We might well be getting to the point where litigation stops (here and elsewhere) and everyone just accepts that it sucks for everyone right now, and it is no one's fault (on a micro scale).

I could see where some would blame Ghazi for choosing F&C to develop a high rise of this proportion. I know some people/developers that predicted 210 Trade to fail several years ago based on F&C and their inexperience with a project like this. I could be wrong and maybe Ghazi didn't have a choice in the matter but it seems to me Ghazi's mistake was partnering with F&C.

[dubone]

Very good point, but that wouldn't be F&C's basis for a lawsuit . But many on this board expressed extreme skepticism given that F&C had only ever developed low rise apartments. Most didn't believe they'd do it as condos as a result of that history, too.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Does anyone think that another company, at a later date, would complete the condo tower?

[atlrvr]

As long as you're not putting a time frame on the word "later", then yes. My sentiments when this was announced was that it was a perfect apartment site, and I was incredulous that they sold out to the condo-mania. When/if this is completed, I predict that sanity will prevail and it will be an apartment tower significantly less than 50 stories.

[Neo]

Looks like the 210 Trade webcam stopped updating a couple of days ago, I guess F&C finally got around to ditching that monthly payment for something that isn't going to be happening.

[UPTOWNGIRL]

Looks like the Charlotte Business Journal this week reported--

in the Mechanics Liens section:

Mechanics' Lien by Shiel-Sexton for $471,424.00 against Ghazi just filed.

Mechanics Lien by Southern Mechanical (HVAC for EpiCenter) - three more liens as well, for over $240,000.00 (listed against his Pacific Ave, LLC)

[monsoon]

Those lien holders are going to have to get in line. Looks like Ghazi didn't pay his 2008 property taxes on this complex for The Epicenter/210 Trade. I saw this news on a local blog, but you can go to the Tax Collections and see the deliquent tax bill here for yourself. Tax bills are sent out in late August and I believe you are deemed delinquent if they are not paid by Jan 2.

I wonder when the sheriff is going to show up and padlock the doors of all the establishments so that it can be auctioned off for back taxes? Or course I am being rhetorical. However if I owned a business that was paying rent in the Epicenter I would be hopping made about it.

[Charlotte_native]

^I'm sure collecting for this tax bill is/will be complicated right now. Typical Triple Net commerical leases have tenants paying their share of property taxes, not the landlord, outside of their lease amount. I wonder if this is for part or all of the building and/or if they are working out who pays what. New condo buildings often have issues with who pays what, even residential ones, as the assessors office takes a while to assign specific parts of the bill to the specific elements of multi-use projects. This is pretty common for projects their first year.

Can't say for sure this is what is happening here, but could be a very likely explanation.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Charlotte_native

[monsoon]

^I'm sure collecting for this tax bill is/will be complicated right now. ...

It's not complicated at all. North Carolina general statutes allow the Tax Collector to place a tax lien on the property and they can instruct the sheriff to go find the individual to pay the tax. If that doesn't work they hold an auction on the court house steps and the winner of the auction gets a clear title to the place. Ghazi's arrangements with his renters are irrelevant. The owner of the property listed at the tax office is the one responsible for paying the bill. While I fully expect the city might turn a blind eye to this, especially since they gave him a 1/2 million dollars earlier, he also owes significant taxes to Mecklenburg county who might not be as accommodating. I paid my taxes this past year, I don't see any reason why they can't be paid on this property.

[MZT]

The county doesn't usually hold tax sales unless the property is abandoned and derelict. If the property is in decent shape, they just let the bills and interest pile up. After all, somebody someday will pay them, and the bills collect interest at a nice rate (12% or 18%, I think). It's just additional expense for the county to process a tax sale, when they can just be patient. I have seen examples of five and six years of tax bills piling up on properties...

The tax bills are senior to any mortgage. What tends to happen in most cases is that when tax bills are overdue, the mortgagee isn't being paid either, and will begin foreclosure proceedings. If the property is foreclosed, then the bank owns it - and they'll pay the taxes at some point, in order to clear title for a buyer.

Edited January 9, 2009 by MZT

[uptownliving]

Another possibility is that the Tax Value for this property is being appealed by Ghazi....that happens all the time with commercial property.

[Charlotte_native]

It's not complicated at all. North Carolina general statutes allow the Tax Collector to place a tax lien on the property and they can instruct the sheriff to go find the individual to pay the tax. If that doesn't work they hold an auction on the court house steps and the winner of the auction gets a clear title to the place. Ghazi's arrangements with his renters are irrelevant. The owner of the property listed at the tax office is the one responsible for paying the bill. While I fully expect the city might turn a blind eye to this, especially since they gave him a 1/2 million dollars earlier, he also owes significant taxes to Mecklenburg county who might not be as accommodating. I paid my taxes this past year, I don't see any reason why they can't be paid on this property.

That isn't what I was talking about at all and his arrangements with the tenants are far from irrelevant. The Observer will soon print numerous pages of property taxes which haven't been paid (thousands of tax bills). They take little collection action, especially for one year, on any property. There will be no action on this and it is doubtful the tenants in the place care at all -- they are quite safe and probably not moving quickly on paying their share. Doubtful anyone other than those looking for something to further bash the project would even pay attention to this.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Charlotte_native

[palmetto75]

RE investors and developers both big and small are notorious for using unpaid taxes as intermediate loans. This is esp true in NC and charmeck where tax certificates are not issued and you can in many cases go several years w/o paying them and only accrue what are actually favorable interest rates right now.