Historic Intown Neighborhoods

[Spartan]

You're right, but we're going to be like them eventually. We've taken a liking to sprawl ala Greenville, so we should look to what they have done right and wrong and make our decisions accordingly. I always hear how we are about 10-15 years behind Greenville. IMO we should push for what will be best now, even though we may disagree on what is "best."

Also, regarding Olive Garden and national chains that Spartanburg is lacking, we have an entire thread on that, which you can view here: Why don't we have _____?

[Sparkleman]

Also, regarding Olive Garden and national chains that Spartanburg is lacking, we have an entire thread on that, which you can view here: Why don't we have _____?

I'm well aware of that thread, I just used Olive Garden as an example of how far behind in the game we are (not that I love the OG, its just that we were probably the last town of any size to get one). I hope we are going to get where we want to go and I think its good to use other cities as models of what worked and what did not. BUT, Spartanburg is unique in my opinion and goes against the grain a lot of times of what works in say Greenville will work here. A case in point is that I would love a REAL Butcher shop here in town. There is one in Greenville and several in Columbia, so I am sure there are a few in Charlotte. However the chances of that flying here are slim and none, at least not now.

Finally its good to disagree on this board. Thats what promotes everyone's opinion and opens new doors to new ideas.

[Spartan]

I'm well aware of that thread, I just used Olive Garden as an example of how far behind in the game we are (not that I love the OG, its just that we were probably the last town of any size to get one). I hope we are going to get where we want to go and I think its good to use other cities as models of what worked and what did not. BUT, Spartanburg is unique in my opinion and goes against the grain a lot of times of what works in say Greenville will work here. A case in point is that I would love a REAL Butcher shop here in town. There is one in Greenville and several in Columbia, so I am sure there are a few in Charlotte. However the chances of that flying here are slim and none, at least not now.

Finally its good to disagree on this board. Thats what promotes everyone's opinion and opens new doors to new ideas.

The most obvious reason for that is we don't have the population to support such things, though I admittedly don't know what it takes to support a butcher. Population doesn't explain the lack of chains, as was noted in that other thread.

[Sparkleman]

The most obvious reason for that is we don't have the population to support such things, though I admittedly don't know what it takes to support a butcher. Population doesn't explain the lack of chains, as was noted in that other thread.

It takes white collare jobs that can afford using a butcher vs the regular grocery store as the meat is better quality and offered in better cuts. I saw one in Asheville once that had a butcher shop on one side and a cheese and wine shop on the other. If you have ever been to Europe that's all they have. Talk about cool!!!

[hub-city]

We have a couple of butcher's here in Spartanburg do we not? I went over to Lake Bowen meats the other day and they cut me some beautiful filets. I think they also have a shop on the eastside called Eastside meat and produce. There is also a nice wine and chesse shop on specialty row besides heavenly ham. Carriage house wines downtonwn is also very nice.

[Sparkleman]

Where is east side meat and produce? Is it on the east side or downtown? No offense to Lake Bowen Meats, but I am not driving 15-20 miles for a butcher. I was expressing a desire for one in the downtown area.

[Jael]

Where is east side meat and produce?

yellowpages.com says it's on Union Street down at Camp Croft.

[travey]

It is on Union St. If you are travelling from downtown area it will be on the left before you reach the light at 295. It is a small place located beside a Automotive repair shop. Nice people and pretty good deals.

[Sparkleman]

Is the quality of beef any different than a grocery store or the Fresh Market?

[Upstater]

Eastside Meets is located between Barnetts Garage and Bolton-James. They are very friendly and have great cuts of meat. I hardly make it to the Fresh Market anymore. I buy all of my meat at Eastside and all of my seafood at Sellers.

[GMoxley]

a neighboorhood lake (22 acre Floyd's Lake).

Floyd's Lake?!? I grew up on Winfield, right across from the lake, and I and all the other neighborhood kids always called it Hillbrook Lake. I don't know if it has an official name, but where did you hear Floyd's Lake?

[Sparkleman]

Floyd's Lake?!? I grew up on Winfield, right across from the lake, and I and all the other neighborhood kids always called it Hillbrook Lake. I don't know if it has an official name, but where did you hear Floyd's Lake?

When I bought my house last Spring I was given a platt map that had the lake on it. The original name was "Floyd's Lake". I assume because John Floyd (owner Mortuary) owned most all the property around Hillcrest and Hillbrook. The name was later changed to Hillbrook Lake and stock certs were given to all folks that have houses on the lake. When I was at the last lake meeting, I asked some questions and that was one of them. I think they changed the name in the early 70's.

[GMoxley]

When I bought my house last Spring I was given a platt map that had the lake on it. The original name was "Floyd's Lake". I assume because John Floyd (owner Mortuary) owned most all the property around Hillcrest and Hillbrook. The name was later changed to Hillbrook Lake and stock certs were given to all folks that have houses on the lake. When I was at the last lake meeting, I asked some questions and that was one of them. I think they changed the name in the early 70's.

That's interesting. Thanks for the info!

[Spartan]

Finally, some interesting news!

Hampton Heights is a finalist for an award by a group called Neighborhoods USA in the "multi-neighborhood project partnerships category for their efforts to revitalize Carlisle Street." This is great news for Hampton Heights, which has made some tremendous progress over the past few years.

Another part of the article worth noting is that the Preservation Trust of Spartanburg is going to expand its efforts into Beaumont. While we've known this for some time here on UP, its good to see the HJ confirm this.

Article

[Spartan]

I thought this was interesting-

A historic house in Hampton Heights is in danger of being demolished. Apparently its been condemned for over a year, and it would cost somewhere around $50,000 to restore. It used to be the home of a former SC Governor, so IMO that is reason enough to support its preservation. I don't know of that many governors that were from Spartanburg, so I think its value is significant. Its a shame that the owner doesn't or can't keep it up.

Its a good thing that Spartanburg has a group like the Preservation Trust to advocate saving historic structures like this.

HJ Article

[Spartan]

Beaumont has some very nice houses on Liberty St... they just need some TLC. The other houses are indeed standard mill houses, but I have a vision for it. It may not be everyone's vision, but I see it as being an active neighborhood. Its ideally located near pretty much everything you'd want. It has a park (needs some upgrades), you're not far from groceries, 5 minutes to downtown (you could easily bike there in 10). You're less than 10 minutes from Hillcrest. Its quiet, you're not directly on any major thoroughfares except Isom St. You have a lot of connectivity via Beaumont Ave/North Fairview, and Boundary Dr.

When the mill site redevelops, it will be a nice mixed used project, Liberty St will be reconnected, and you will have that much more access and potentially be within walking distance to some restaurants. Mill villages in and of themselves are the type of urban development that we should be striving for. They are usually well connected (not cul-de-sacy) and focused around some sort of common gathering spot like a company store or other group of shops, or the mill itself. In Beaumont's case, the company store was probably located at the mill, but even still this new mixed use development, when it comes, will take care of that. On top of that, you would be living in a neighborhood that is an integral part of Spartanburg and South Carolina's textile history. IMO this is the only mill village that is well positioned to be revitalized in the near term.

You need to go up to Charlotte or down to Columbia and check out what is being done with some of the mill villages there. Look at Charlotte's NoDa neighborhood, which is centered on 36th and North Davidson. The neighborhood extends to the south and east from that intersection. It is rapidly being revitalized from one of Charlotte's worst neighborhoods to one of the better ones. Young professionals are driving the revitalization in most of Charlotte's urban neighborhoods, which is why I stress the importance of recruiting white-collar corporations that employ young professionals to downtown. The houses there are not too different from those in Beaumont.

In Columbia, Olympia, which is just south of Whaley Street and west of Assembly, is undergoing a similar transformation. I don't perceive it to be as far along, but this change is happening.

Both of these neighborhoods are known as being part of an "arts" district, which are typically more eclectic in some respects. NoDa's name itself is a play on New York's SoHo.

So, as Beaumont as a neighborhood is redefined, I think that it will become one of Spartanburg's more popular neighborhoods.

[roads-scholar]

Since this topic has transmogrified from Spartanburg's leaders to Spartanburg's neighborhoods I thought it was time I chimed in. Besides Beaumont, there is another "mill village" neighborhood that could bloom again. The Spartan Mill neighborhood off Howard Street has, in my opinion, some better built homes than Beaumont. Forty years ago this community was a thriving working class enclave anchored by the mill, schools, and churches. Today all the mill workers are gone and the neighborhood has degenerated into a mostly low income rental community.

It may be wishful thinking to believe Spartan Mill will gentrify in the near term. However, I believe this neighborhood has real potential. The former mill site will have to be redeveloped first.

[Spartan]

Spartan Mills did occur to me, Saxon too, but I think it will be much longer before those neighborhoods are sufficiently revitalized due to its location near Una, Howard Street, and that whole area that is notorious for crime,

[Sparkleman]

I don't think either Spartan Mills or Beaumont is going to be revitalized anytime in the near future to have any sort of bearing on downtown. Why you might ask? Well these type of folks that move into these neighborhoods simply aren't going to have the coin or desire to spend their hard earned $$$ on activities downtown on fru-fru restaurants, coffee joints, or plays at the CCC. Even if you were to revitilize Beaumont to some extent, the tenants there are still going to be lower to mid lower class living in 70K houses. They may participate in Spring Fling or stuff at Barnet Park but their dollars won't be spent driving downtown. As I mentioned earlier Duncan Park is a better fit for revitilizing as is the neighborhood between the Park and all down South Converse Street. Many of these houses have been torn down with new ones taking their place and others are being fixed up. This used to be a really nice neighborhood within shouting distance of downtown with both blacks and whites living here.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Sparkleman

[Spartan]

^Hampton Heights used to be the same way. I'm not trying to sugar coat anything... I'm talking about gentrification. Thats what it will take to revitalize these neighborhoods, so SOMETHING has to be desirable about living there, and usually the first thing is location proximate to a major attractor. The people who put money into old neighborhoods like these typically do exactly what you said, tear down houses to build something bigger and more modern or rehab what is there to suit their needs. Thats why I think that downtown will eventually do this. A great example nearby is Greenville's North Main neighborhood.

I do agree that Duncan Park, and especially South Converse are prime real estate too. They are a great location, and the houses there are more similar to what is already being rehabilitated in Hampton Heights and Converse Heights. Though I think to some extent, Duncan Park is not really in need of revitalization at the same scale as Beaumont. Duncan Park just needs some more urban feature nearby.... sidewalks for example, and some destination to walk to other than the park.

This goes back to that neighborhood identity thing we were talking about before. South Converse is one of those neighborhoods where people know its there but are probably not sure what its called.

[Spartan]

District 7's new charter school finally has a permanent location. Its going to be located in the former Arts building on Spring St. This is a fantastic re-use of this building, since it was originally a school. Wasn't it Erwin HS or something to that effect?

This location will be GREAT for families looking to make the move to Hampton Heights. The current school options for HH are not good, and this will give parents in that neighborhood (and others) a better option for schooling. This is great news for Spartanburg and all of its intown neighborhoods.

District 7 has turned down the application to this charter school. This is a pretty major setback for Hampton Heights, but I'm hopeful they will be able to work out the issues and bring this back. A functional neighborhood school will do wonders for Hampton Heights. The main problems appear to be that the school itself is not ready for students, and that the school is not fully staffed. The article states that the people who are putting this together will still move forward. "School organizers now face the prospect of an appeal or an attempt to operate under the auspices of the state Charter School District."

HJ Article

[Sparkleman]

IMHO, District 7 has turned down the Charter school because they are afraid it will be a success and expose them for what a lot of them are (people just interested in collecting a check and advancing up the ladder). Many of these folks aren't interested in educating children and being held accoutable for it. They would rather just go with the flow and not worry about changing things and allow the district to continue down the toilet. And people in District 7 wonder why the district is getting smaller and smaller. Smart people that can afford it are sending their kids to places like Oakbrook, SCA, Westgate Christian or the Day School. Back in the day there was just the Day School, now there are 3 or more other alternatives to get a better education. The Charter school could have been big for district 7, but again IMHO they are afraid that it will expose them for what they are (only interested in themselves).

[Sparkleman]

Well you're gonna have to have a developer that shares your vision to make this happen. Probably half the houses in Beaumont are rentals and owned by gosh knows who. You're gonna have to get them to want to sell and thats gonna be tough to do. I think it would be a tough sell to anyone to want to invest in Beaumont. To me the one thing that could make Beaumont important is something I am going to present in a new thread and has nothing to do with downtown. Stay tuned for that.

[Spartan]

Exactly. Except that it will have to be multiple developers. It will all start, however, with reinvestment from the City to help redefine the neighborhood. You act as though the people who live there don't want it to be better, and as though the people who rent those places out won't sell. Believe me, if its done right, they will sell. Again I'll point to Hampton Heights as proof of that.

I'm looking forward to this new thread.

[djh1963]

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Edited May 28, 2008 by djh1963