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seagull4

Sewage issue

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Grand Rapids released a lot of sewage the last few days into the Grand River. The question is this. Should growth be halted until the problem is fixed? Is it fair for our neighbors downstream to have to put up with the sewage problems?

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This is a free market society, halting growth -- are you kidding? I think the answer lies in the crapper.

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Grand Rapids released a lot of sewage the last few days into the Grand River. The question is this. Should growth be halted until the problem is fixed? Is it fair for our neighbors downstream to have to put up with the sewage problems?

This is a more valid reason to be anti-growth than the usual NIMBY crap, but I really don't see a mechanism available to "halt growth" until the the city sorts it out. And halting growth wouldn't solve the problem, it might avoid making worse.

Getting slightly off topic, I've never thought that "halting growth" is a valid argument to make. Growth happens. Deal with it. Don't try to sweep it under the carpet. Identify what will happen to an area over time and plan accordingly.

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But wait, what kind of Growth can they hault? Other than building new commercial buildings, I was under the impression that the city wasn't growing anyway. What do they mean by growth? I can't see how it's going to make a difference

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It is my understanding that the City of Grand Haven is paying for a study to be done on the impact from the Grand Rapids sewage releases. It could be interesting to see the outcome of the study. :)

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Why does GR have such persistent sewage problems? Is our sewer system that old or outmoded? Does anybody know?

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Where does this stop? The status of the Grand River is not solely in the hands of the Grand Rapids. There are other cities along the Grand River. Are we going to ask Lansing, Portland, Lowell, Grand Ledge to all stop bringing businesses and jobs to their towns/cities? Are we going to ask the farmers in Lamont and Eastmanville along the Grand River to stop planting fields or having livestock along the river because of the their discharges? Is it any better to have houses, with underground sprinkling and fertilizers to keep our lawns as green as the neighbors next to the Grand River?

The city along with several cities/towns along many rivers throughout Michigan and the Unitied States, know there is a sewage problem. Grand Rapids is currently trying to fix it as fast and as best as they can. Changing/updating sewer systems don't just happen over night. They are timely and sometimes very costly. Stopping businesses from coming into an area will only hurt ourselves (in my opinion). If a business wants to do something, it will do it one way or another. If a business needs another plant or more office space, they will build/find it somewhere, if not in Grand Rapids than someplace else. Having them build somewhere else just means that the city will loose out on their property taxes and employee's spending money in their city. Without taxes from buinesses/residents in Grand Rapids, how would the city ever pay for the changes to the sewage system? Would they just raise taxes higher and higher for those who are already here until they are forced to relocate to another city where taxes are not as high?

end rant

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It is my understanding that the City of Grand Haven is paying for a study to be done on the impact from the Grand Rapids sewage releases. It could be interesting to see the outcome of the study. :)

http://www.ci.grand-rapids.mi.us/index.pl?page_id=3323

Grand Rapids is in the process of fixing the problem. The majority of the work is complete. They have significantly reduced the problem.

I understand that Grand Haven just recently completed their own Combined Sewer Overflow corrections. They too were dumping sewage into the channel.

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Grand Rapids is in the process of fixing the problem. The majority of the work is complete. They have significantly reduced the problem.

I understand that Grand Haven just recently completed their own Combined Sewer Overflow corrections. They too were dumping sewage into the channel.

Okay, so in the CSO separation we eliminate sewage overflowing in the river, but what about the treatment of urban stormwater runoff?

Now instead of being treated, all urban stormwater runoff will directly flow into the Grand River. Nonpoint source pollution is the leading source of water quality problems in Michigan's rivers and lakes.

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Where does this stop? The status of the Grand River is not solely in the hands of the Grand Rapids. There are other cities along the Grand River. Are we going to ask Lansing, Portland, Lowell, Grand Ledge to all stop bringing businesses and jobs to their towns/cities? Are we going to ask the farmers in Lamont and Eastmanville along the Grand River to stop planting fields or having livestock along the river because of the their discharges? Is it any better to have houses, with underground sprinkling and fertilizers to keep our lawns as green as the neighbors next to the Grand River?

The city along with several cities/towns along many rivers throughout Michigan and the Unitied States, know there is a sewage problem. Grand Rapids is currently trying to fix it as fast and as best as they can. Changing/updating sewer systems don't just happen over night. They are timely and sometimes very costly. Stopping businesses from coming into an area will only hurt ourselves (in my opinion). If a business wants to do something, it will do it one way or another. If a business needs another plant or more office space, they will build/find it somewhere, if not in Grand Rapids than someplace else. Having them build somewhere else just means that the city will loose out on their property taxes and employee's spending money in their city. Without taxes from buinesses/residents in Grand Rapids, how would the city ever pay for the changes to the sewage system? Would they just raise taxes higher and higher for those who are already here until they are forced to relocate to another city where taxes are not as high?

end rant

Good dialogue on the topic - It shows GR is ready to face problems in their area.

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Grand Rapids is in the process of fixing the problem. The majority of the work is complete. They have significantly reduced the problem.

Have we Civitas?

True or False kiddies.............The water quality in the Grand River has gotten better since the combined storm and sanitary has been mostly separated.

...................Times up, the answer is false.

The water quality has continued to decrease. Why? Because we are no longer sending the stormwater with all of its contaminates through the water treatment plant. That means that all of the crap that gets picked up in the first flush gets sent directly into the river.

This underscores the need for responsible stormwater management for us as developers, architects, building owners, and just plain concerned Joes. If we continue to implement responsible stormwater management techniques (low impact development, rain gardens, bio swales, bio retention facilities....etc, etc.) we can help keep the quality of our water (our very best local resource) at its highest possible level.

Edit: Triple G beat me to the punch! :D

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Have we Civitas?

True or False kiddies.............The water quality in the Grand River has gotten better since the combined storm and sanitary has been mostly separated.

...................Times up, the answer is false.

The topic was sewage overflows into the river. They have been greatly reduced.

If the new topic is storm water quality, Grand Rapids is probably doing a better job than most cities on the Grand (assuming that all cities discharge untreated storm water into the river). In Grand Rapids even the smallest commercial developments are installing expensive water quality chambers as a part of their storm water systems.

What happens to the parking lot pollution in a closed (green) system? If it doesn't go in the river it still goes somewhere.

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Okay, so in the CSO separation we eliminate sewage overflowing in the river, but what about the treatment of urban stormwater runoff?

Now instead of being treated, all urban stormwater runoff will directly flow into the Grand River. Nonpoint source pollution is the leading source of water quality problems in Michigan's rivers and lakes.

This is from the National Association of Home Builders. It offers BMP's for low impact development, especially for stormwater treatment.

http://www.nahbrc.org/tertiaryR.asp?TrackI...CategoryID=1071

Also, check out wmeac.org, and raingardens.org as well.

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Good dialogue on the topic - It shows GR is ready to face problems in their area.

Seagull: You've already been given this same response to the same question. If you continue to troll here, I'll see that you're banned from UrbanPlanet.

I don't think anyone supports totally bankrupting the City to fix a problem (that has been around for decades and decades) just so it can be done in 2 years instead of 10.

The stormwater runoff into the local watersheds is a totally separate issue, IMO.

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So that's what that aroma was downtown this morning...

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So that's what that aroma was downtown this morning...

It's a secret!

:rofl:

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I see someone wants to ban seagull4 because he or she asked a duplicate question. I thought that question created a lot of good dialogue. I may be wrong,but a forum should not only address positive issues,but the negative ones as well.

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I see someone wants to ban seagull4 because he or she asked a duplicate question. I thought that question created a lot of good dialogue. I may be wrong,but a forum should not only address positive issues,but the negative ones as well.

I think the point was that he's asking the same thing over and over.

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Believe me, we're not all wine and roses around here. But when someone raises a topic over and over again, and does not listen to what others are saying in response, it's called trolling. This is the 3rd topic started for the same issue.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25575

Start your own website Portcity and Seagull if it's so important to you.

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