Future of Six Forks/Wake Forest Intersection

[plus2]

There is no new news, but I was hoping for your opinions.

With the new developments at Crabtree and North Hills I would think that the Six Forks/Wake Forest area would be a good spot for a similar transition. Midtown Raleigh, remember! It is the next exit off of the beltline with easy access to downtown.

However, this intersection is littered with sprawling parking lots and it doesn't appear to be getting any better with the new Costco on one corner. Is there any hope for this area? The old Lowe's Foods has closed. So now there is a giant parking lot sitting unused. What's going to happen here?

Down the road there are some new residential developments off of Atlantic Avenue. Anyone see something like that coming?

[Subway Scoundrel]

There is no new news, but I was hoping for your opinions.

With the new developments at Crabtree and North Hills I would think that the Six Forks/Wake Forest area would be a good spot for a similar transition. Midtown Raleigh, remember! It is the next exit off of the beltline with easy access to downtown.

However, this intersection is littered with sprawling parking lots and it doesn't appear to be getting any better with the new Costco on one corner. Is there any hope for this area? The old Lowe's Foods has closed. So now there is a giant parking lot sitting unused. What's going to happen here?

Down the road there are some new residential developments off of Atlantic Avenue. Anyone see something like that coming?

I had heard that Kane was looking at the old Alcatel Plant next to the Lowes Food but my guess he has his hands full. Not to bring back up the sore subject of the Costco, but this area is ripe for urban development but I am afraid it will go the opposite way with CostCo and whatever comes along.

I see that whole area of Lowes, Alcatel, Holly whatever shopping center and the warehouses behind it to be redeveloped into a nice urban village. Also, remember there is a planned Phase 2 TTA stop just on the other side of the beltline that this could almost back up to.

Not to mention all the land near by bordered by Atlantic and Capital (Peden Steel, Old Farmers market. the old Southern Case plant, Mutual distributing) even going to where Chevrolet Dealership is and the Foxy lady is. (Long Live the Foxy Lady !!)

Anyway, I can dream.......

BTW, I just cringe when I see the Vitamin store at 6-forks and Wake Forest that took the place of the Amoco. What a waste of space, time and effort on a nice corner lot.

[capitalapts]

Traffic considerations aside (that is a horribly busy intersection), strategically, it would seem a great location for mixed-use development. You would get a bit of a better transition to downtown on Wake Forest and Atlantic, and you're right near 5-points. Plus, those condos near Bojangles, which are nice but in the middle of nowhere, would see an increase in property value.

[pack-man]

BTW, I just cringe when I see the Vitamin store at 6-forks and Wake Forest that took the place of the Amoco. What a waste of space, time and effort on a nice corner lot.

Gotta have vitamins!!! I don't see that place sticking around much longer. It doesn't ever look busy when I drive by.

[sax184]

Strangely enough, a committed redevelopment process for this area could over time, create a decent urban neighborhood. Why?

Look here: Google Map of Intersection

You could create a reasonable street grid over time on all 4 quadrants of the intersection and create a real neighborhood that moves internal traffic much more efficiently. You could also create a "midway" station between Govt Center and Highwoods on the back of the eastern side of the development.

The biggest challenge? Taming that 6-lane in each direction pedestrian deathtrap dividing the 4 pieces.

All of this is not physically difficult to do. It just takes vision and a willingness to push for good planning.

[orulz]

The biggest challenge? Taming that 6-lane in each direction pedestrian deathtrap dividing the 4 pieces.

Here's my solution: Better crosswalks, pedestrian signals, and (most importantly) four large, brightly lit "NO TURN ON RED" signs.

[thewhister]

Strangely enough, a committed redevelopment process for this area could over time, create a decent urban neighborhood. Why?

Look here: Google Map of Intersection

You could create a reasonable street grid over time on all 4 quadrants of the intersection and create a real neighborhood that moves internal traffic much more efficiently. You could also create a "midway" station between Govt Center and Highwoods on the back of the eastern side of the development.

The biggest challenge? Taming that 6-lane in each direction pedestrian deathtrap dividing the 4 pieces.

All of this is not physically difficult to do. It just takes vision and a willingness to push for good planning.

Ding! Ding! Yes this area has lots of potential for redevelopment. Sounds like there should be a request for the city to do a small area plan, if it has not already been done already.

Surprising enough the traffic flows well at intervals at the interchange. I have walked to that area many times from home and I have never felt that I was going to be hit by a vehicle going supersonic to get to their destination.

Question in regards to the Costco going in. Does anyone know if it is just a stand alone store or is it going to be an anchor to another dull strip. I am shocked that they raised the elevation of the property signifcantly...seems like there would be more build-out if that is the case. It would be a waste for this "raised area" to be designed for parking only.

If the dealers along the strip decide to move to the fringe than there would definitely open up more development potential.

[capitalapts]

Question in regards to the Costco going in. Does anyone know if it is just a stand alone store or is it going to be an anchor to another dull strip. I am shocked that they raised the elevation of the property signifcantly...seems like there would be more build-out if that is the case. It would be a waste for this "raised area" to be designed for parking only.

FYI, the finished floor elevation of the Costco has to be a certain height above the 100-year floodplain of Crabtree Creek, hence the 'raising.' All those car dealerships on Wake Forest Road there got flooded during Fran in '96. Similar measures were taken at the Borders/Kroger strip when it was constructed.

[thewhister]

The City of Raleigh Planning site has a little bit of info for the area.

[orulz]

That plan pretty much just states the current development pattern of the area. It's also incoherent and doesn't actually plan anything at all.

The area has excellent roads (interconnection, numerous major streets, the beginnings of a street grid), proximity to the TTA corridor and the Beltline, Crabtree Creek & Greenway, and proximity to several major city "nodes" (highwoods, north hills, and downtown). This combined with the limited scope and relative age of current development in the area make it prime for redevelopment.

It would be nice to see the city take the lead and develop a plan for urbanizing the area. There would probably already be such a plan if TTA had included this location in the initial rail system proposal. A vehicle engineer at TTA did tell me, however, that allowances in the design have been made for a future station in the vicinity of Six Forks, so maybe we'll see a plan sometime yet.

[dmccall]

FYI, the finished floor elevation of the Costco has to be a certain height above the 100-year floodplain of Crabtree Creek, hence the 'raising.' All those car dealerships on Wake Forest Road there got flooded during Fran in '96. Similar measures were taken at the Borders/Kroger strip when it was constructed.

I'm sure this is the reason for the elevation. Right about where the east side curb is used to be a culvert (creek, really) that went straight down to Crabtree Creek. It flooded BIG TIME back in ?1972? (back when the Old Lassiter Mill Rd bridge washed out). About 1976 they boxed it in from Alcatel down to the creek. The point is that the Pepsi bottling plant was graded before they really realized the flooding problem with that area.

I'm pretty sure the Costco will stand alone on the lot and not be a part of a bigger strip.

I find myself going down to that area to buy stuff a lot, but it really is a pretty shameful little crossroads. I REALLY hate that crap that was built in front of Staples and Kroger. Obviously somebody else does, too, because QDoba and Quizno's are the only things that are making it. Wouldn't it have been neat if those giant parking lots had been developed a little differently?

[NCMike1981]

I live near that intersection and it does seem as if the intersection could be so much more....I was a bit dissapointed to learn that the big cleared area was just going to be a Costco. By the way when did the Lowes Foods close?

[bdp]

I live very close to this intersection, somewhere between it and 5 points... the whole area definitely has potential. Lowe's foods has been closed a while... before I even moved here last July. I wish it were open, so I don't have to buy everything at Kroger.

[plus2]

With so many parcels I doubt anyone could come in a buy it all up, especially with a Costco right in the middle, but there is a lot of potential in the Lowe's foods spot and the stuff right behind it. If someone were to jump at that and create a nice urban development maybe that could lead to future similar developments on the other nearby parcels.

Maybe even eventually someone will want to redevelop the Kroger strip mall. Puhlease! But gotta start somewhere first. That pratically unused lot is ripe.

[Subway Scoundrel]

That plan pretty much just states the current development pattern of the area. It's also incoherent and doesn't actually plan anything at all.

The area has excellent roads (interconnection, numerous major streets, the beginnings of a street grid), proximity to the TTA corridor and the Beltline, Crabtree Creek & Greenway, and proximity to several major city "nodes" (highwoods, north hills, and downtown). This combined with the limited scope and relative age of current development in the area make it prime for redevelopment.

It would be nice to see the city take the lead and develop a plan for urbanizing the area. There would probably already be such a plan if TTA had included this location in the initial rail system proposal. A vehicle engineer at TTA did tell me, however, that allowances in the design have been made for a future station in the vicinity of Six Forks, so maybe we'll see a plan sometime yet.

If TTA ever happened, I would like/dream to see a stop at Highwoods and Peden Steel or at the cross of the 2 rail corridors near the Peden Steel plant.

Then shoot street car like transit up 6-Forks past NHs.

Ok I can dream........

[bdp]

Maybe the land will become so valuable that the car dealerships will move out to the burbs... remember sir walter chevrolet downtown? it could happen, and that would open up a lot of land right near this intersection... Atlantic Place condominiums on Atlantic behind bojangles and the new development between Atlantic Place and Highwoods also add some density. All of this is about a 2 mile straight shot from downtown... I bet in the next ten years there will be some major changes around here. Atleast I hope so, for my sake... ; )

[Transplant]

If TTA ever happened, I would like/dream to see a stop at Highwoods and Peden Steel or at the cross of the 2 rail corridors near the Peden Steel plant.

Then shoot street car like transit up 6-Forks past NHs.

Ok I can dream........

This type of thing shouldn't be a dream, it should be part of the long term plan. As I've stated other places, this is where this area lacks, foresight. TOD and a plan for mass transit in this area simply makes sense.

[plus2]

New N&O article on development in this corridor. According to the article property values are going up as a results of the location between North Hills and downtown. People are looking at this area as the next spot for redevelopment. http://www.newsobserver.com/104/story/463962.html

[ChiefJoJo]

Where is the proposed Phase II TTA stop--is it on that map? I seem to remember it's just north of 440 near Highwoods office park. I wish that was discussed in the article. It is within a half-mile or so I'd guess of the station. Maybe--just maybe in 20 years or so--this area could perhaps justify a new stop between Govt Ctr in DT and Highwoods.

[orulz]

The article certainly points out the potential in the area, but I'm afraid the Costco has set things in motion in entirely the wrong direction for this to become an urban area. My guess is that we'll end up with something that looks a lot like Mini City before too long.

From an urban perspective, condo conversions of existing apartments are not desirable either, because it's more difficult and expensive to redevelop when you have to negotiate with 150 different owners instead of just one.

[plus2]

The article certainly points out the potential in the area, but I'm afraid the Costco has set things in motion in entirely the wrong direction for this to become an urban area. My guess is that we'll end up with something that looks a lot like Mini City before too long.

I agree on Costco. I wish it would've been combined with some other features that would allow for a hidden parking deck. More giant lots is the last thing this area needs.

I think there is lots of potential in sites #4 and #2 in the graphic above. I wish someone would combine them and create a mixed use development.

[ncwebguy]

How is "vacant shopping center" a *new* business??? There *was* a health club (World Gym) in the shopping center on Wake Forest just south of 440 and it closed. Why would a new one do any better? The other "new businesses" include the vitamin shop which replaced a gas station, a used car dealership. Is that all the area between downtown and North Hills can produce?

The camera shop and other stores at Whitaker Mill and Atlantic are somewhat new, replacing Millscape design. How long have they been there? That area's potential will be hampered by the recycling plant on the northeast corner of Atlantic and Whitaker Mill though.

Also, there are two new businesses *now open* in the old Raleigh Bonded Warehouse (15 on the map) -- MacThrift outlet and something else. It is not "proposed".

[Subway Scoundrel]

Where is the proposed Phase II TTA stop--is it on that map? I seem to remember it's just north of 440 near Highwoods office park. I wish that was discussed in the article. It is within a half-mile or so I'd guess of the station. Maybe--just maybe in 20 years or so--this area could perhaps justify a new stop between Govt Ctr in DT and Highwoods.

My understanding was where you turn right into Highwoods (when leaving DT Raleigh on Atlantic), if you were to turn left, it would be right there. Then someone could walk over to highwoods or take a TTA shuttle.

The area aruond the proposed stop is older industrial with some undeveloped property. Some of it is not in use.

[Subway Scoundrel]

How is "vacant shopping center" a *new* business??? There *was* a health club (World Gym) in the shopping center on Wake Forest just south of 440 and it closed. Why would a new one do any better? The other "new businesses" include the vitamin shop which replaced a gas station, a used car dealership. Is that all the area between downtown and North Hills can produce?

The camera shop and other stores at Whitaker Mill and Atlantic are somewhat new, replacing Millscape design. How long have they been there? That area's potential will be hampered by the recycling plant on the northeast corner of Atlantic and Whitaker Mill though.

Also, there are two new businesses *now open* in the old Raleigh Bonded Warehouse (15 on the map) -- MacThrift outlet and something else. It is not "proposed".

I think the Macthrift outlet is in the Old-Old Harris Wholesale (the one before the big one across the street) which is down the street form the RBW. The Raleigh Bonded warehouse is the black building and property near the exit ramps onto Wake Forest. I think Hatem owns the rights to this building or at least he did at one time.

Maybe MacThrift also open in the Raleigh Bonded Warehouse ???

[avery]

It was nice to see an article about this part of town, but I am a bit more skeptical. This area seems anything but urban and it doesn't appear to be heading that direction either. To me, it appears like any other suburban part of town. The potential is definitely there for more urban development, but until I see it, I won't hold my breath.