Jump to content

Bon Secours Wellness Arena


distortedlogic

Recommended Posts

Wah, wah, wah!! Get over it. The Bi-Lo Center will be planting shrubs in their place. Don't you people have enough to worry about than a few trees. BTW, it's not a one time event, it will be an annual event. Get your signs ready, I want to see a protest next May. :rofl:

Calling people out after just 10 posts here? I hope your other 9 were outstanding to justify such authority! :mellow:

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Wah, wah, wah!! Get over it. The Bi-Lo Center will be planting shrubs in their place. Don't you people have enough to worry about than a few trees. BTW, it's not a one time event, it will be an annual event. Get your signs ready, I want to see a protest next May. :rofl:

I'm glad you find the cutting down of trees for a concert so funny. Please leave your address, and we'll come to your house, cut down your trees and pave your entire yard as a parking lot. ;)

For your education, while shrubs are better than nothing, as concerns the enivronment, they do not have the same positive effect as trees.

Also, for your education, from what I hear, the city is not letting Bi-Lo off the hook for this. Trees will have to be replanted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, trees cut down for huge developments like Greenridge, Verdae, Carolina First, Hubbell, and CU-ICAR were cut down to make room for something that creates many jobs and really helps the economy. They weren't cut down because a few people wouldn't be able to see the stage at a freakin' concert in a parking lot.

Next!

What about the people who visit this city from other states to see the concert? You know, the ones who stay at the hotels and eat at restaurants here. Doesn't that help the local economy? :mellow: Seeing how you don't want to complain about trees being cut down in the developments I mentioned, what about the ones that are cut down to make way for new cookie cutter subdivisions in the middle of nowhere? :whistling:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure those are not the City's problem. It's the county's. :whistling:

It's still located in our area. Also, seeing how you and I are allowed to cut down trees on our property, why shouldn't the Bi-Lo Center be allowed to on their property?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys....a group of us have joined together and formed the G-CATS.....(Greenville Citizens Against Trees). We have a list of grievances against the trees on Main Street. We are lobbying City Hall to cut down the trees on Main Street and just replace with shrubs.

Here are our list of grievances:

- We are tired of bird poop on our heads when walk down the sidewalk.

- The falling leaves get in our tomato basil soup when we are eating outside (it is REALY hard to tell the difference between a piece of basil and a small leaf).

- I can't see the stage for Friday Night Jazz and I'm not smart enough to step in front of a tree so I can see.

- I just bought an extended cab dually and we need longer parking spaces so my trailer hitch doesn't hang into the street and get knocked off.

- The sidewalks are too crowded. Some of the women in our group love open toe shoes and can't wear them when walking on Main because their feet get stepped on. Get rid of the trees and give us bigger sidewalks.

- I have allergies to many of the trees downtown and can't go downtown without sneezing.

- These trees are just big lightening rods!

- One child was running down the street the other day and ran straight into a tree. Left a bump on his head. We should have flat sidewalks with no objects so my child can run free and never bump into anything.

- I'm a senior citizen with bad eyesight and sometimes confuse the trees for a person.

- The trees make the perfect spot for muggers, purse snatchers, and all sorts of criminals to hide behind.

Here is one other grievance that the Bi-Lo manager wanted added:

- We are having a concert and don't want to use the indoor 16,000 seat arena. We want to have the concert in the parking lot and we want everyone to see the stage. The trees are blocking some views of the stage.

Now seriously guys, does the Bi-Lo reason sound anymore logical or sane than the made-up list above? Sadly, IMO, no......it really fits right in with that silly list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys....a group of us have joined together and formed the G-CATS.....(Greenville Citizens Against Trees). We have a list of grievances against the trees on Main Street. We are lobbying City Hall to cut down the trees on Main Street and just replace with shrubs.

Here are our list of grievances:

- We are tired of bird poop on our heads when walk down the sidewalk.

- The falling leaves get in our tomato basil soup when we are eating outside (it is REALY hard to tell the difference between a piece of basil and a small leaf).

- I can't see the stage for Friday Night Jazz and I'm not smart enough to step in front of a tree so I can see.

- I just bought an extended cab dually and we need longer parking spaces so my trailer hitch doesn't hang into the street and get knocked off.

- The sidewalks are too crowded. Some of the women in our group love open toe shoes and can't wear them when walking on Main because their feet get stepped on. Get rid of the trees and give us bigger sidewalks.

- I have allergies to many of the trees downtown and can't go downtown without sneezing.

- These trees are just big lightening rods!

- One child was running down the street the other day and ran straight into a tree. Left a bump on his head. We should have flat sidewalks with no objects so my child can run free and never bump into anything.

- I'm a senior citizen with bad eyesight and sometimes confuse the trees for a person.

- The trees make the perfect spot for muggers, purse snatchers, and all sorts of criminals to hide behind.

Here is one other grievance that the Bi-Lo manager wanted added:

- We are having a concert and don't want to use the indoor 16,000 seat arena. We want to have the concert in the parking lot and we want everyone to see the stage. The trees are blocking some views of the stage.

Now seriously guys, does the Bi-Lo reason sound anymore logical or sane than the made-up list above? Sadly, IMO, no......it really fits right in with that silly list.

Apaladin and G-man, er, I mean citylife are heading up this committee, right. :whistling:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now, it looks like the Bilo Center may face fines in addition to those regarding the trees. Noise violations are the root of the possible second fine.

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20...ONTPAGECAROUSEL

This gets more entertaining each day...

:rofl::rofl: OMG!!! I am rolling on the floor. Look at this comment from the article by one of the Bi-Lo Center officials...............

"Thornhill also said he was the person who instructed Bi-Lo Center officials to cut down parking lot trees because he said they posed a safety issue for children who might have climbed in them."

Was I psychic with my silly list above???? One of the silly post was "kids would run into trees". This Bi-Lo Center official says kid would have climbed trees!!!!!!!! I can not believe the absolute stupidity of this whole ordeal. Do we cut down every single tree in the world because a kid may climb it??????

I'll stop ranting, but I will say this.......when someone from the North makes snide remarks about ignorant, Southern rednecks......you can hold the Bi-Lo Center management up as the poster children for that slur. Truely pathetic!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll stop ranting, but I will say this.......when someone from the North makes snide remarks about ignorant, Southern rednecks......you can hold the Bi-Lo Center management up as the poster children for that slur. Truely pathetic!

:rofl: :rofl: You know, the Bilo Center needs to come out and publicly apologize, plant those trees back along with a few more, and stop their employees from talking to the media. It's extremely comical, yet serious, but most of all: sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:rofl::rofl: You know, the Bilo Center needs to come out and publicly apologize, plant those trees back along with a few more, and stop their employees from talking to the media. It's extremely comical, yet serious, but most of all: sad.

The only thing that is sad is people like you slamming the arena for trying to put on a nice concert for people in this area. Maybe you and all of the other naysayers should read this article: http://www.wyff4.com/news/19506732/detail.html Oh and let me make sure you get this part of it:

Organizers stressed the festival had a substantial impact on the city of Greenville, employing 490 people for the event and helping 120 others from local groups and nonprofit agencies. The Bi-Lo Center also reported spending more than $110,000 to rent equipment from local businesses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing that is sad is people like you slamming the arena for trying to put on a nice concert for people in this area. Maybe you and all of the other naysayers should read this article: http://www.wyff4.com/news/19506732/detail.html Oh and let me make sure you get this part of it:

Organizers stressed the festival had a substantial impact on the city of Greenville, employing 490 people for the event and helping 120 others from local groups and nonprofit agencies. The Bi-Lo Center also reported spending more than $110,000 to rent equipment from local businesses.

There's no doubt that a concert at the Bilo Center with big names such as those is an economic booster. No one is arguing against that. That point is done with.

Greenville's trees are also an economic generator themselves. You can't put a dollar sign on it, but there's no doubt that businesses and visitors come to Greenville and are impressed by the greenery. To an extent, that yes, helps them decide to move their operations or their family to the area.

You can bring up anything in suburbia and close your own eyes and ears to the situation, but the fact is this: every city has a suburban landscape. They expect it to consist of large parking lots and big box stores. They look past that, because it's Anywhere, USA. Another thing people come to expect of urban cores is this: concrete jungle, possibly run down, but with buildings pulled up to the streets. SURPRISE! This is Greenville, South Carolina. They have taken a stand on greenery, realized its benefits in an urban environment, and practiced what they preach about planting trees. Not only do they ask others to do it, they do it themselves by landscaping almost every downtown street.

The Bilo Center was built with public and private funds. So, I think that as a Citizen not only of Greenville County, but also the City of Greenville, I have the right to be upset with the removal of trees that I helped pay for. They were not sick or needed removal for the trees' sake (i.e. Main Street tree removal). Yes, the event brought in roughly 20,000 people and left an unknown impact on the City financially, but if that's justification, then why not have removed ALL the trees in the Bilo Center parking lot and have an event that could accommodate 150,000 people?? That would have left a much nicer cash amount in the City's pocket! Heck, why not tear down the Bilo Center and have attracted a crowed of 300,000 people?? I mean nothing is better than the bottom line. No matter what the costs involved, or the consequences down the road, we apparently need to chase money and focus on the right now. I mean that's always been the City's policy right? Right now? Max Heller only planted trees because he likes the way small trees look in the early moonlight. He never foresaw them growing and providing a lush canopy that people would enjoy. He wanted the instant gratification of 'right now'.

That is such a weak argument you're posing. Come on, can someone actually defend the stance that the Bilo Center is in the correct position in this situation? People are taking up their side, but only name calling and throwing out useless pieces of information.

Edited by GvilleSC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing that is sad is people like you slamming the arena for trying to put on a nice concert for people in this area. Maybe you and all of the other naysayers should read this article: http://www.wyff4.com/news/19506732/detail.html Oh and let me make sure you get this part of it:

Organizers stressed the festival had a substantial impact on the city of Greenville, employing 490 people for the event and helping 120 others from local groups and nonprofit agencies. The Bi-Lo Center also reported spending more than $110,000 to rent equipment from local businesses.

I am extremely happy this event brought in money and employed people. GREAT! :thumbsup: The point is, trees didn't have to be cut down and quality of life diminished to achieve the financial benefit. There is a 16,000 seat arena that sat empty!!! The concert could have been held inside, the crawfish boil part outside and the flow of pedestrians could have been in and out at will. Why do we have an arena sitting there and Bi-Lo chooses not to use it? Or, if they wanted a parking lot event, why didn't they find a large parking lot somewhere in town where they didn't have to cut down trees? This is the ignorance I'm talking about. Why could Bi-Lo Center management not be smart enough to host an event AND keep the trees. The two issues are not mutually exclusive. Arenas all around the country host events daily, without turning their employes into mini Paul Bunyans!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am extremely happy this event brought in money and employed people. GREAT! :thumbsup: The point is, trees didn't have to be cut down and quality of life diminished to achieve the financial benefit. There is a 16,000 seat arena that sat empty!!! The concert could have been held inside, the crawfish boil part outside and the flow of pedestrians could have been in and out at will. Why do we have an arena sitting there and Bi-Lo chooses not to use it? Or, if they wanted a parking lot event, why didn't they find a large parking lot somewhere in town where they didn't have to cut down trees? This is the ignorance I'm talking about. Why could Bi-Lo Center management not be smart enough to host an event AND keep the trees. The two issues are not mutually exclusive. Arenas all around the country host events daily, without turning their employes into mini Paul Bunyans!

I am officially weighing on on the side of the Bi-Lo Center. This was good for the city, period. Trees can be replanted, perhaps in a manner that allows for both them and future outdoor shows to coexist in peace. My take, the treehuggers are over reacting. We are cutting down and replanting trees on Main St for Pete's sake. I like trees too and agree they add to why Greenville is so Green and such a pleasant place to live. I dont think anyone ever said that the folks at Bi-lo are poised to go on a city-wide tree killing spree. Trees can be removed and replanted on an individual case basis, weighed for the risk vs reward and replanted if need be as we have see on Main. There really are more important matters to discuss and I am a bit ashamed that would be NIMBY's are trying to paint an unrealistic negative picture of what was a good thing for the city.

Edited by gvegascple
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am officially weighing on on the side of the Bi-Lo Center. This was good for the city, period. Trees can be replanted, perhaps in a manner that allows for both them and future outdoor shows to coexist in peace. My take, the treehuggers are over reacting. We are cutting down and replanting trees on Main St for Pete's sake. I like trees too and agree they add to why Greenville is so Green and such a pleasant place to live. I dont think anyone ever said that the folks at Bi-lo are poised to go on a city-wide tree killing spree. Trees can be removed and replanted on an individual case basis, weighed for the risk vs reward and replanted if need be as we have see on Main. There really are more important matters to discuss and I am a bit ashamed that would be NIMBY's are trying to paint an unrealistic negative picture of what was a good thing for the city.

The removal and replanting of trees on Main Street is being systematically done to allow Main Street to continue to be green. It is a process being done to sustain the tree canopy. Several of Main Streets trees are under stress, sick, etc.

The actions of the city on Main are to preserve our tree canopy.

The actions of Bi-Lo were simply to destroy for a concert/economic gain.

Again, Bi-Lo could have had economic gain AND kept the trees. Very doable.

At this point, Bi-Lo is no better than the developers that slash and burn to build subdivisions......trees took second place to instant monetary gain.

Smart urban planning says that both tree preservation and economic gain can be accomplished, hand in hand. Bi-Lo wasn't smart.

Call me a treehugger...... :)

Edited by gsupstate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The actions of the city on Main are to preserve our tree canopy.

The actions of Bi-Lo were simply to destroy for a concert/economic gain.

I don't think it should matter, as long as there is some thought behind the decision and the trees are replaced in some manner. But even so, you are kidding yourself if you do not think that "preserve our tree canopy" = economic gain. EVERYTHING can be translated into dollars and that canopy brings people back downtown to spend money. The trees in the parking lot do not translate into nearley as much financial gain but I am sure they still do slightly impact an overall aesthethic improvement that we whould always be mindful of promoting, even more so here in Greenville because we are known for it and it definately adds to the quality of life here.

Smart urban planning says that both tree preservation and economic gain can be accomplished, hand in hand. Bi-Lo wasn't smart.

Bilo wasnt planning, they were reacting to an opportunity and they made a judgement call. Had they included the potential for outdoor concerts in the planning stage the trees would have been arranged differently and most likely still there. Opportunities should be sought out, and should not be turned away because they were not considered 20 years ago and planned for.

for me, the real test is if they replace the trees and maybe take the new opportunity they have now to plan for both trees and outdoor shows, which are really nice to go to by the way.

Edited by gvegascple
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But even so, you are kidding yourself if you do not think that "preserve our tree canopy" = economic gain. EVERYTHING can be translated into dollars and that canopy brings people back downtown to spend money.

You are EXACTLY right! :thumbsup::thumbsup: I totally agree that a lush, green city equals economic gain. That is the point.....you can HAVE trees AND have economic gain together.....hand in hand. The lush green tree canopy shouldn't just be limited to Main Street though. It should be for every parking lot, for every shopping center, for every little Taco Bell and gas station. Tree canopy should be important to the entire city. IMO, we should be actively working to achieve "Tree City" status:

http://www.arborday.org/programs/treeCityUSA/index.cfm

The problem with Bi-Lo is they got rid of trees for economic gain, they didn't add trees for economic gain. Big difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are EXACTLY right! :thumbsup::thumbsup: I totally agree that a lush, green city equals economic gain. That is the point.....you can HAVE trees AND have economic gain together.....hand in hand. The lush green tree canopy shouldn't just be limited to Main Street though. It should be for every parking lot, for every shopping center, for every little Taco Bell and gas station. Tree canopy should be important to the entire city. IMO, we should be actively working to achieve "Tree City" status:

http://www.arborday.org/programs/treeCityUSA/index.cfm

The problem with Bi-Lo is they got rid of trees for economic gain, they didn't add trees for economic gain. Big difference.

The point is they did SOMETHING for economic gain. The reward (economic gain) vs the risk (having to take down and potentially replace 14 trees) was weighed and a choice was made. The scale in which trees impact the economy is different in each case. I hate to burst your bubble, but in some cases, an argument AGAINST trees can be made as in certain situations (keeping trees actually impedes economic growth some times). Downtown, the risk (cost of adding and maintaining trees on Main st) vs the reward (more people shopping downtown) is a totally different dynamic. If you were to apply that to the Bilo parking lot then your argument, if followed along its (flawed) logic (Trees=Economic Gain) would mean that if we completely filled the parking lot with trees than we would be making the best risk vs reward decision for the Bilo Center Parking lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're saying that it's ok because Bilo Center is going to replace the trees and we'll be back to normal, right? So what's the big deal, right?

Bilo Center officials want to do this event next year, too. Well, in stead of finding a solution that allowed to preserve the trees (which when they're old enough won't be in the way because their canopy will be higher), they cut them down. So, sure they can replant them, but what are they going to do next year? Cut them down again?? If they had found a solution that sustained the trees this year, then they'd have one less aspect of their concert to worry about next year. Their own solution doesn't even work out well for themselves in the long run. Smaller trees are going to be more in the way for people at eye level. Older trees you could at least raise the canopy to allow for viewing... Tell me how cutting them down makes more sense in the LONG RUN.

Twenty years from now those trees would have been huge shade trees cleaning our air, lowering that parking lot's temperature, and quite simply shading. Where will this monetary gain be in twenty years? Will we still see the results of this concert financially at that time? I don't think so.

Once again, we all know it brought money to the City. We're happy about it. It's also great to have those names in town performing! However, I'm not sold that destroying trees was the ONLY option for this concert to work and for that money to be spent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're saying that it's ok because Bilo Center is going to replace the trees and we'll be back to normal, right? So what's the big deal, right?

Bilo Center officials want to do this event next year, too. Well, in stead of finding a solution that allowed to preserve the trees (which when they're old enough won't be in the way because their canopy will be higher), they cut them down. So, sure they can replant them, but what are they going to do next year? Cut them down again?? If they had found a solution that sustained the trees this year, then they'd have one less aspect of their concert to worry about next year. Their own solution doesn't even work out well for themselves in the long run. Smaller trees are going to be more in the way for people at eye level. Older trees you could at least raise the canopy to allow for viewing... Tell me how cutting them down makes more sense in the LONG RUN.

Twenty years from now those trees would have been huge shade trees cleaning our air, lowering that parking lot's temperature, and quite simply shading. Where will this monetary gain be in twenty years? Will we still see the results of this concert financially at that time? I don't think so.

Once again, we all know it brought money to the City. We're happy about it. It's also great to have those names in town performing! However, I'm not sold that destroying trees was the ONLY option for this concert to work and for that money to be spent.

this really needs to be put in the proper scale when discussed, if all you want is 14 treess to clean air, then bilo can plant them at the back of the lot (or a mile away). The location of any replacement trees probably is more important than the size (as a tree is a tree) right? This issue will definately remain if a tree is replanted in the same location and they do intend to have another outdoor show with the same configuration.

You folks are acting like they are drowning baby seals here, we are talking about 14 trees. IT WAS WORTH IT. Those trees may have been doing something for the city, and they did a great job and will be missed. They were casualties of a decision to help the city generate revenue. Maybe we can make 14 bronze statues of them... (wait if we made the bronze statues out of real trees, it would be even better!)

Lets just replace the trees and move on. If it ever came down to a TREE vs me or my family or my beloved city, THE TREE LOSES in my book. Ill plant a baby oak in my backyard this weekend if it helps. If everyone that was upset did the same, we'd be thousands of times better off then the results of any argument on this topic on this board.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point is they did SOMETHING for economic gain. The reward (economic gain) vs the risk (having to take down and potentially replace 14 trees) was weighed and a choice was made. The scale in which trees impact the economy is different in each case. I hate to burst your bubble, but in some cases, an argument AGAINST trees can be made as in certain situations (keeping trees actually impedes economic growth some times). Downtown, the risk (cost of adding and maintaining trees on Main st) vs the reward (more people shopping downtown) is a totally different dynamic. If you were to apply that to the Bilo parking lot then your argument, if followed along its (flawed) logic (Trees=Economic Gain) would mean that if we completely filled the parking lot with trees than we would be making the best risk vs reward decision for the Bilo Center Parking lot.

Bi-Lo Center did something for immediate economic gratification, not longterm monetary gain. Again....big difference. Had they left the trees.....if more trees would be planted.....if Greenville could achieve "Tree City" status......these things would have long term economic gain.

Have you talked with the Bi-Lo Center management? You say they thought about and planned this. I find that hard to believe. There was no true thinking behind this decision, IMO.

I find it funny that people are defending Bi-Lo Center, when the management can't even defend themselves.....first they said the trees were cut so people could see the stage, then later they said the trees were cut so children wouldn't climb them......WEAK! Bi-Lo management had such poor judgement, they can't even logically and consistently defend their actions.

Edited by gsupstate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You folks are acting like they are drowning baby seals here, we are talking about 14 trees. IT WAS WORTH IT. Those trees may have been doing something for the city, and they did a great job and will be missed. They were casualties of a decision to help the city generate revenue. Maybe we can make 14 bronze statues of them... (wait if we made the bronze statues out of real trees, it would be even better!)

I respect your opinion, but that is a callous attitude. Trees directly effect quality of life.

I do agree that everyone should plant a tree! Join in with Trees Greenville. Here is the website:

http://www.treesgreenville.org/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I respect your opinion, but that is a callous attitude. Trees directly effect quality of life.

I do agree that everyone should plant a tree! Join in with Trees Greenville. Here is the website:

You seem to be pushing an agenda from the repeated link you are inserting. Are you using this to further an agenda and not taking it at face value? It seems very odd that the links keep getting posted in your remarks and you seem to be exagerrating things a bit.

Tree vs Person, I take person. Tree vs City, I will go with City. Trees are nice, and I am for them, but in this case, its not the clearcutting of a forest, its 14 trees (in a parking lot for Pete's sake, we are lucky there are trees in it at all!) for an event that made the city a lot of money. Money that could be used to plant 50x the trees lost elswhere. This event was a good investment and the trees were a casualty. They will be mourned. Lets replant them (and use some of the money to plant some more, just not infront of any would be future stages) and move on.

Edited by gvegascple
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You seem to be pushing an agenda from the repeated link you are inserting. Are you using this to further an agenda and not taking it at face value? It seems very odd that the links keep getting posted in your remarks and you seem to be exagerrating things a bit.

Tree vs Person, I take person. Tree vs City, I will go with City. Trees are nice, and I am for them, but in this case, its not the clearcutting of a forest, its 14 trees for an event that made the city a lot of money. Money that could be used to plant 50x the trees lost elswhere. This event was a good investment and the trees were a casualty. They will be mourned. Lets replant them (and use some of the money to plant some more, just not infront of any would be future stages) and move on.

The only agenda I am pushing is a for a high quality of life.

Bi-Lo Center is the organization that wrongly chopped down trees that effects every citizens quality of life. I am PRO TREE as a person....it gives a higher quality of life. It goes along with my belief that power lines should be buried, metal "butler" building should be banned, billboard placement should be regulated, pet owners should scoop after their dogs, etc, etc. Americans as a whole need to grow up and get past the slash/burn/disposable/cheap/Wal-Mart/fast food mentality.

It is insulting to me as a Greenville citizen that some manager of Bi-Lo Center would simply hack down mature trees so a bunch of Southerners could suck on crawdad heads and swill beer!! These are the kinds of stories that the New York Times will run and give Southerners a bad name. I'm all for having a good time......I swill beer with the best of them.....but my God people, what is wrong with a little logical thought beforehand?????

There was no logical thinking involved in this......when a 16,000 seat arena sits empty, yet trees are chopped down to hold a concert, that defies logical, intelligent thought. That kind of thought (or lack of) has no place in an urban environment.

Edited by gsupstate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.