Bon Secours Wellness Arena

[breed]

I went to a couple G-Braves games while they were here. I find it hard to believe that the stadium was every viewed as anything other than an albatross. I've been to about 15 different minor league parks. Municipal stadium, circa 2001, was by far the worst facility I'd ever been to. Poorly designed, poorly maintained, poorly run.

As for some thoughts on why the BiLo Center teams have struggled...

Cost... for the price of my family to attend one game (about $75), my family can attend two Drive games.

Social setting... there is none. Maybe this is important... Maybe rip out a couple rows of seats behind the first set of seats and use it as a mingling area. It works the for the Drive. They sure as heck didn't need them for spectators.

Marketing... there was little. Was there even any marketing for the Groove?

Sales... One year for my daughter's birthday, we rented a box. It was like pulling teeth to actually get the logistics straightened out. We had a wonderful time, but it took several trips, in-person, just to get the box reserved. I don't know that this was a problem for the other sports in the arena, but I would imagine that it was, as it seemed to be a staffing issue.

Location... the BiLo center has a suburban stadium feel, in a downtown setting. There is virtually no chance that someone strolling downtown and attending a game, simply because they happen to be there. If and when the federal building gets constructed, this could change.

Weird revenue stuff regarding the facility... others know more about it than I.

[whitehourseview]

Social setting... there is none. Maybe this is important... Maybe rip out a couple rows of seats behind the first set of seats and use it as a mingling area. It works the for the Drive. They sure as heck didn't need them for spectators.

I have been in a few newer arenas in recent years and have seen exactly what you are talking about. What it amounts to is a bar/club like setting open to all to just walk up, sit at a booth or on a stool that overlooks the arena floor and have a socializing period during the action.

[breed]

I have been in a few newer arenas in recent years and have seen exactly what you are talking about. What it amounts to is a bar/club like setting open to all to just walk up, sit at a booth or on a stool that overlooks the arena floor and have a socializing period during the action.

One of my colleagues put this in perspective for me when they said they view "general admission" tickets at West End Field as a "cover charge."

[RestedTraveler]

One of my colleagues put this in perspective for me when they said they view "general admission" tickets at West End Field as a "cover charge."

That's a good one. That's more or less how I see it at times.

[whitehourseview]

Local banks may place a call on the bonds used to finance the Bi-Lo Center's debt:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/wyff/20060607/lo_wyff/9334660

Ed Rubenstein, Grrrowl general manager and former manager of the Bi-Lo Center, indicates that they won't get close to the money needed by September.

[RestedTraveler]

Although I can certainly understand the position the creditors are in, I have some faith that the Bi-Lo Center can make up the lost revenue. Something about insult and injury comes to mind here...

[gs3]

Did anybody see the WYFF news story on this last night? Actually, things may be brighter for the place. If the banks take ownership, the Bi-Lo Center will not close, because 1. it's a public building and 2. the banks want as much income coming in as possible. The most likely scenario, would be that the Bi-Lo's board of directors is replaced with a more agressive board, that will go after more concerts, another hockey team, etc.

The part of the story that bothered me was the interview with Ed Rubenstein. He had the attitude of "I've washed my hands of this". It's painfully obvious that the group of investors who bought the Grrrowl last year did not have the deep pockets or the PR skills needed to succeed, nor were they out for the best interest of their players or the fans.

Who knows, this could be the best thing for the center.

[whitehourseview]

Did anybody see the WYFF news story on this last night? Actually, things may be brighter for the place. If the banks take ownership, the Bi-Lo Center will not close, because 1. it's a public building and 2. the banks want as much income coming in as possible. The most likely scenario, would be that the Bi-Lo's board of directors is replaced with a more agressive board, that will go after more concerts, another hockey team, etc.

The part of the story that bothered me was the interview with Ed Rubenstein. He had the attitude of "I've washed my hands of this". It's painfully obvious that the group of investors who bought the Grrrowl last year did not have the deep pockets or the PR skills needed to succeed, nor were they out for the best interest of their players or the fans.

Who knows, this could be the best thing for the center.

I agree with you, defintely in the sense that it can't get much worse for the BLC. And surely a shot in the arm of new management would help.

The bankers won't take a wrecking ball to the place, that's for sure. 16,000 seat arenas can and do make money. The BLC needs to market itself towards Spartanburg and northward towards Asheville, where they won't face the competition from Atlanta or Columbia.

Looking at how the ECHL is expanding, there simply is no reason why Greenville is not prime market for a hockey team in the future.

So yeah, if it's time to cut the deadwood, let's hope that it gets better. Rubenstein might just be burned out on the whole matter.

[RestedTraveler]

I missed the story on WYFF-4 last night, but these are some excellent points, guys.

This will no doubt result in an injection of new vigor that will land more income opportunities (including new sports franchises) for the Bi-Lo Center.

Another plus: we may get a second chance at naming any new hockey team. Maybe the "Greenville Glide..." or something. And perhaps a new Indoor Soccer Team could be the "Greenville Jive..." So we could not only Drive, but Glide and Jive our way into some new sporting options.

[Greenville]

Yeah, perhaps they can select a team name that makes sense for the area and is also spelled properly. Did we really need 3 r's in Grrrowl?!? As gsupstate pointed out before, someone who didn't know it had 3 r's would have had a difficult time finding the website or information about the team!

Rubenstein sounds like a weary man who is frustrated with life right now. I don't know details, so I won't pass judgement on him or the comments he made. Hopefully the situation will turn out to be a positive for everyone involved, if that is possible.

[whitehourseview]

Rubenstein sounds like a weary man who is frustrated with life right now. I don't know details, so I won't pass judgement on him or the comments he made. Hopefully the situation will turn out to be a positive for everyone involved, if that is possible.

He has been with the BLC since it was a red clay hole in the ground off East North St. during construction, he probably needs some slack cut his way, and I'd probably feel the same way were I in his situation.

[gs3]

He has been with the BLC since it was a red clay hole in the ground off East North St. during construction, he probably needs some slack cut his way, and I'd probably feel the same way were I in his situation.

True. I don't how I'd be either, but I think at the very least, I'd check my attitude at the door and be positive on camera in front of thousands of people.

Negativity breeds more negativity, and positive thinking breeds more positive thinking. Everytime I've seen anyone talk with this guy he simply has a very negative attitude.....sort "I don't give a sh**" attitude.

Time for some new blood!

[gs3]

Bump. Since the Grrrowl will be returning.

[whitehourseview]

Bi-Lo Center's future, any thoughts?

With no Grrrowl and with the arena predicting that it will lose money, anyone want to predict what the Bi-Lo Center will be like in a a year, five years, 10 years?

I just don't see the arena doing well on just concerts, etc. once a month.

And putting on my Carnac the Magnificant hat, in five years I predict the arena will need some renovations, largely because it is about to go through a period of neglect..

I hope Greenville is not stuck with a white elephant at its doorstep, but the finances for this facility are really screwed up.

Will the ECHL ever consider coming back here with another franchise?

[scman473]

Bi-Lo Center's future, any thoughts?

With no Grrrowl and with the arena predicting that it will lose money, anyone want to predict what the Bi-Lo Center will be like in a a year, five years, 10 years?

I just don't see the arena doing well on just concerts, etc. once a month.

And putting on my Carnac the Magnificant hat, in five years I predict the arena will need some renovations, largely because it is about to go through a period of neglect..

I hope Greenville is not stuck with a white elephant at its doorstep, but the finances for this facility are really screwed up.

Will the ECHL ever consider coming back here with another franchise?

The only way I see them saving the Bi-Lo Center is them getting another minor league team for any sport, raising taxes, or getting a lot more concerts.

Edited July 11, 2006 by scman473

[whitehourseview]

The only way I see them saving the Bi-Lo Center is them getting another minor league team for any sport, raising taxes, or getting a lot more concerts.

Greenville won't raise taxes for an arena. Anyone familiar with the 30 year Coliseum fight knows that won't happen.

A lot more concerts? KORN just cancelled their tour stop in Greenville. They had only pre-sold 800 tickets, and the Peace Center is hosting a lot more concerts, along with tour stops in Columbia, new arena in Charlotte, Gwinnett, etc.

Another minor league hockey team would be great, but it would need to have a wholly different financial deal than the Grrrowl.

The Bi-Lo Center is in for some long term trouble.

Edited July 11, 2006 by whitehourseview

[gregtrob]

A lot more concerts? KORN just cancelled their tour stop in Greenville. They had only pre-sold 800 tickets, and the Peace Center is hosting a lot more concerts, along with tour stops in Columbia, new arena in Charlotte, Gwinnett, etc.

--snip--

The Bi-Lo Center is in for some long term trouble.

My understanding w/Korn (ticket sales not withstanding) was that the lead singer was ill. I know that a few weeks ago he was hospitalized for something or other while doing a show in Europe somewhere or other.

No args on the fact that the BiLo Center is in trouble.

I'm a hockey fan (yay Blues), but rarely went to the Bi-Lo center. Why? Several reasons

1) The seating sucks - there's no way to be nice about it - I'm not a big guy but c'mon that's ridiculous the seats are on top of each other whomever designed it did a poor job

2) Lack of events - seriously why are there no concernts at the BiLo center? Poor booking, or *cough*religious*cough* based keeping a lot of shows cmong aroung. Do we really need protesters outside because Sabbath is playing? Lots of country events - OK I admit it's popular here - but let's face it the concert pickings for rock/metal is very low. The fact is there probably is a big market here for it.

3) Cost - this has been beat to death

What I think the BiLo center should do - and I think they hvae done this before - but book some smaller shows for the "atrium" area somehow or other. Not to take away from the Handlebar (or Peace center) but really the BiLo center just doesn't bring anything to the table for me and for people I know.

[scman473]

All I have to say is the Bi-Lo Center is in deep trouble.

Edited July 11, 2006 by scman473

[TREY]

The Bi-Lo center is still a great building and if their is a market someone else will step up to the plate and will take over the growl or bring a new team to town.

I personal think that with the natural football following in the area that a arena football team should do good in Greenville.

IMO one of the proplems with Hockey is that it has a limited market.

My wife would not go back because of all the fighting (years ago at a game we were at some one had their jaw broke and blood all over the ice)

Not a very good show of sportsmanship for the kids. I would not recommend taking young kids to the games (Daddy why is that man beating the crap out of that other man?).

Great night to go out and drink beer with the boys and hope for fight!

[distortedlogic]

I agree that the future looks a little bleak at this point, but I am not ready to give up on the center. I agree that, IMO, an arena football team should do pretty well, especially if it is marketed and priced right. The concert selection has dropped off the past couple years, but I believe the center has a stellar track record on major concerts. Just about all the ones I know of have sold out, even with high prices. I really think leaders need to increase efforts on attracting more of them. Perhaps we could come up with some more college sporting events, NBA preseason etc. There are probably plenty of events out there that we could land, it is just a question of doing the homework. I do think we will need a sports team as an anchor though. If this center had to shut down, it would really be an unbelievable blow to Gville and the area! So much of our momentum and exposure would be crushed.

[Greenville]

Until we get another hockey team or arena football team, I would like to see us focus on several things:

- More concerts. Aside from country or southern gospel, which concerts does the Bi-Lo Center book? I don't know what goes into getting an act to stop in Greenville for a tour, but what are other venues of similar size doing that the Bi-Lo Center isn't?

- More Clemson basketball. There is no reason why Clemson shouldn't play at least 2-3 basketball games per year in Greenville. I remember going to a Clemson vs. Illinois game at the Bi-Lo Center about 5 years ago, and it was packed. At the time, it was the largest crowd to watch a sporting event at the Bi-Lo Center. I don't know if that still stands, but there are a lot of Clemson fans and alumni in Greenville. Plenty of people will drive the 40 minutes from Clemson to watch a game in Greenville as well.

- More tournaments. We must find a way to host more basketball NCAA Tournaments. The NAACP boycott is crap, but unfortunately the NCAA honors it and we must find a way to change it. The other time we hosted the men's NCAA first round, it went over very well. If we can do that most years, as well as work toward hosting a regional, that will do a lot for the arena (and the city). Other tournaments don't make as much, but we should always pursue women's NCAA and conference tournaments.

- More non-concert acts. Do high profile comedians ever come to Greenville? What about the big motivational seminars? Is there enough demand for stuff like this?

I think the Bi-Lo Center is a nice venue. At 16,000 seats, it is large enough to handle just about anything, yet small enough to have a somewhat intimate feel. Perhaps the financial arrangement needs to be revised, or some new blood needs to be brought in. There is no excuse for a nice and modern arena to be sitting empty with only a country or gospel concert on the schedule.

[goodbye]

The Bi-Lo Center (and Greenville) must have a hockey team. The arena was clearly designed for that sport, even though it is ideal for basketball, arena football, and indoor soccer as well. Greenville and the Upstate needs an indoor professional sports franchise as an option during Winter months.

[Subway Scoundrel]

The Bi-Lo Center (and Greenville) must have a hockey team. The arena was clearly designed for that sport, even though it is ideal for basketball, arena football, and indoor soccer as well. Greenville and the Upstate needs an indoor professional sports franchise as an option during Winter months.

I agree with your comments. On a Carolina Hurricanes subject in the Raleigh/Triangle board, someone mentioned that the Grrrrowl had folded. Maybe if new ownership can come in and work a good arena deal, it will help. (not sure what kind of arena deal they had) Good for the team, good for the arena, good for DT, good for the entire area....

I look at the attendance numbers for 1998-2001 and they are great for minor league hockey. Did the shine wear off? Or promotion just got bad?

The NHL southern motherships of the Atlanta Thrashers and Carolina Hurricanes need teams like the Grrrowl to generate and maintain interest in satelite cities, especially in cities like Greenville with strong economics and growth,.... not to mention a fun place to go to see an exciting sport.

Good luck !! As a CofC graduate, I always thought I would end up in Greenville and have numerous friends there and keep up with what happens there.

Most Gville-ites I always knew were always look for a place to drink beer with friends. What better place than a hockey game !! (and great place to take a family)

Edited July 12, 2006 by Subway Scoundrel

[whitehourseview]

I agree with your comments. On a Carolina Hurricanes subject in the Raleigh/Triangle board, someone mentioned that the Grrrrowl had folded. Maybe if new ownership can come in and work a good arena deal, it will help. (not sure what kind of arena deal they had) Good for the team, good for the arena, good for DT, good for the entire area....

I look at the attendance numbers for 1998-2001 and they are great for minor league hockey. Did the shine wear off? Or promotion just got bad?

The NHL southern motherships of the Atlanta Thrashers and Carolina Hurricanes need teams like the Grrrowl to generate and maintain interest in satelite cities, especially in cities like Greenville with strong economics and growth,.... not to mention a fun place to go to see an exciting sport.

Good luck !! As a CofC graduate, I always thought I would end up in Greenville and have numerous friends there and keep up with what happens there.

Most Gville-ites I always knew were always look for a place to drink beer with friends. What better place than a hockey game !! (and great place to take a family)

Thanks for the comments Subway. The Grrrowl did lose some of their shine, but after about '01 or '02, marketing and publicity stopped to a large degree. They had ownership issues and a bad deal with their arena. I feel certain a new team will come in after a year or two, but the arena deal will have to be substantially different.

Folks tell me all the time that there is no way that hockey could succed in the South, but the last two Stanley Cup winners were Carolina and Tampa Bay. Atlanta and the Miami franchise do well, along with plenty of other minor league teams around.

It can succed, but for the time being, it might be best to let this furor die down for a year or two and force the arena's management to bargain for a new team, on the team's terms; and then market it like crazy.

Hockey will come back to Greenville, the town needs good winter entertainment; I just suspect that the best business deal is to just cool it for a year or two.

[Spartan]

Until we get another hockey team or arena football team, I would like to see us focus on several things:

- More concerts. Aside from country or southern gospel, which concerts does the Bi-Lo Center book? I don't know what goes into getting an act to stop in Greenville for a tour, but what are other venues of similar size doing that the Bi-Lo Center isn't?

- More Clemson basketball. There is no reason why Clemson shouldn't play at least 2-3 basketball games per year in Greenville. I remember going to a Clemson vs. Illinois game at the Bi-Lo Center about 5 years ago, and it was packed. At the time, it was the largest crowd to watch a sporting event at the Bi-Lo Center. I don't know if that still stands, but there are a lot of Clemson fans and alumni in Greenville. Plenty of people will drive the 40 minutes from Clemson to watch a game in Greenville as well.

- More tournaments. We must find a way to host more basketball NCAA Tournaments. The NAACP boycott is crap, but unfortunately the NCAA honors it and we must find a way to change it. The other time we hosted the men's NCAA first round, it went over very well. If we can do that most years, as well as work toward hosting a regional, that will do a lot for the arena (and the city). Other tournaments don't make as much, but we should always pursue women's NCAA and conference tournaments.

- More non-concert acts. Do high profile comedians ever come to Greenville? What about the big motivational seminars? Is there enough demand for stuff like this?

I think the Bi-Lo Center is a nice venue. At 16,000 seats, it is large enough to handle just about anything, yet small enough to have a somewhat intimate feel. Perhaps the financial arrangement needs to be revised, or some new blood needs to be brought in. There is no excuse for a nice and modern arena to be sitting empty with only a country or gospel concert on the schedule.

I think you have a lot of good ideas here.

I think the BiLo Center should look at the Colonial Center in Columbia as an example. That place does very well. Granted they have Carolina basketball to help them out, but even with concerts and what not, they do well. They also don't have hockey. With 1.2 million people in the Upstate (not to mention nearby Asheville and Columbia) and most of them willing to drive to Greenville to see an event, you'd think that they'd be able to draw more entertainment. There is no reason that Greenville shouldn't have more things going on. Country shows seem to be everywhere. I agree that they need more rock/metal bands. I particularly like the Clemson idea. That would do well.

Comedy acts would probably be better suited for the Peace Center. We have comedians regularly at the Spartanburg Memorial Auditorium. They tend to draw slightly smaller crowds than other events, so they require less room (hence the overkil).