Light Rail in the valley

[traal]

The various cities around the valley also need to work on densifying their cores so that more people will ride the light rail and bring the cost per passenger down. Public transportation and sprawl don't mix very well. I'm only addicted to my car as long as there are no other decent alternatives.

[traal]

"Ultimately, light rail or any other public transit system doesn't work unless it's truly regional," said Phoenix City Councilman Greg Stanton.

[colin]

Merchant group wants to block bonuses for light-rail contractors

"They want the bonus money to be redirected to marketing efforts and other incentives that would lure customers back to their restaurants, flower shops and jewelry stores."

Obviously they're pretty pissed. Any thoughts?

[traal]

So, because the merchants aren't getting any of that bonus money, they feel that nobody else should, either? That's mature. (end sarcasm)

These are the people who will benefit from light rail beginning next year when it opens, provided they can stay in business until then. And I can't help but think that if they weren't so dependent on the automobile to begin with, this wouldn't be affecting their businesses much at all. Strategically, it's not such a good idea to keep all your eggs in one basket.

[traal]

New bus route will link east, west Mesa

They're putting in a bus rapid transit (BRT) route from the end of the light rail line at Sycamore and Main, with stations every mile along Main Street to Power Road, then south to Superstition Springs Center. So it's sort of a poor man's extension of the light rail (although they're thinking of doing a proper extension of that down Main street, too.)

I think that's an excellent plan. If ridership is good on the buses, then build the tracks. Valley Metro should probably have used this strategy from the beginning.

EDIT: Here's another article: SE Valley cities hitching up to park-and-ride bandwagon

They're building park-and-ride lots at Superstition Springs Center (to tie into the light rail line), at the 101 and Glendale Avenue, at Germann Road and Hamilton Street in Chandler, and at 40th Street and Pecos in Ahwatukee.

But critics argued that if the city built the lots, riders wouldn't come in large enough numbers to make the system a success.

The naysayers were wrong, [Jack Tevlin, chairman of Friends of Transit] said, noting that ridership has increased steadily with rising gas prices and growing demands on commuters' time.

[colin]

Not spending the money on the infrastructure initially and just building the ridership is probably what's best. Maybe when Mesans start actually enjoying using the light rail will they all want extensions. Build the demand. Until then, we'd just see more "Why do we need to spend the money when we already have roads that can just be widened?" attitude.

Thanks for posting.

[traal]

The other strategy is to build the infrastructure first and then wait for the areas surrounding the stations to densify and bring riders. "If you build it, they will come." Sounds a bit too risky to me.

[colin]

Isn't that kind of what San Diego did? I mean, their "trolley" goes all the way El Cajon, although little in-fill seems to be occuring at this point along the route.

That is risky. I think with Phoenix the culture and mindset of people is going to have to be completely changed for any sort of mass mass transit system to succeed. Personally, I'd rather see the Tucson - Phoenix high-speed rail before a truly large Phoenix rail system, but maybe that's just me, and I guess they're not even from the same pot.

[traal]

I hear people are afraid to ride the light rail (trolley) in San Diego due to certain undesirable elements who only manage to get on by abusing the honor system. A possible exception is the people who take it to Qualcomm Stadium, which by the way was built long before the trolley line that passes by it. I wouldn't be surprised if the trolley isn't attracting any new development.

[traal]

From the Arizona Republic: Tempe's portion of rail construction mostly done

"We now have the civil work - curbs, gutters, sidewalks, utilities, traffic signals, pavement and the track bed or guideway - done from 56th Street and Washington to a little ways east of Rural Road," McLaren said. "So the heavy civil work is done, some landscaping is done, but we still have some landscaping to go."

[traal]

Light rail line will change downtown Mesa

Currently, the light rail line is being built just to Sycamore, just east of Dobson. What I learned from this article is that they're planning to extend it east along Main Street to Mesa Drive, possibly diverting north to 1st Street or south to 1st Avenue, the exact route to be decided by early 2009.

It's nice to know the City of Mesa is thinking ahead!

[silverbear]

Light rail line will change downtown Mesa

Currently, the light rail line is being built just to Sycamore, just east of Dobson. What I learned from this article is that they're planning to extend it east along Main Street to Mesa Drive, possibly diverting north to 1st Street or south to 1st Avenue, the exact route to be decided by early 2009.

It's nice to know the City of Mesa is thinking ahead!

[traal]

Maybe it needs trolley bells so people can hear it a block away!

[colin]

Welcome to the forum, Silverbear! Good to have another Phoenician on here to push the threads.

I think having it on Main would create a really nice streetscape but, at the same time, Main is a major thoroughfare in the area with not much of an alternative, and it would most certainly be reduced to one lane. Then you have the issue of the trains having to contend with the vehicle traffic. Putting it a block away may take away tourists that may have otherwise ridden it saying "Ooh, a train. Neat!", but, seriously, how many tourists does Mesa get now and how many will they get in the next 50 years? It's mainly intended for commuters, and those who want to ride it will know where to find it. This is in stark contrast to the LV monorail which is: hidden, useless and a money hole, but mainly intended to link tourist-full hotels.

I think it's going to gain the most ridership by simple word of mouth. Big John from shipping tells Mary Joe from marketing (both from Mesa) about how he doesn't have to sit on the damn 60 every morning anymore because of the light rail, and how there's plenty of parking at the station by his house. He's says he's even going to start walking it next week to get some exercise (but never will).

[traal]

Doing a little research, it turns out that the Las Vegas Monorail is fairly successful compared to other public transportation systems in the United States. Its riders pay for 59% of its operating costs. In comparison, Valley Metro Rail is only expected to get back about 1/3 of its operating costs through the farebox.

[silverbear]

Welcome to the forum, Silverbear! Good to have another Phoenician on here to push the threads.

I think having it on Main would create a really nice streetscape but, at the same time, Main is a major thoroughfare in the area with not much of an alternative, and it would most certainly be reduced to one lane. Then you have the issue of the trains having to contend with the vehicle traffic. Putting it a block away may take away tourists that may have otherwise ridden it saying "Ooh, a train. Neat!", but, seriously, how many tourists does Mesa get now and how many will they get in the next 50 years? It's mainly intended for commuters, and those who want to ride it will know where to find it. This is in stark contrast to the LV monorail which is: hidden, useless and a money hole, but mainly intended to link tourist-full hotels.

I think it's going to gain the most ridership by simple word of mouth. Big John from shipping tells Mary Joe from marketing (both from Mesa) about how he doesn't have to sit on the damn 60 every morning anymore because of the light rail, and how there's plenty of parking at the station by his house. He's says he's even going to start walking it next week to get some exercise (but never will).

[traal]

Light rail cars already tagged

At the light rail testing site near Washington Street and Mill Avenue, someone snuck in the gate over the weekend and spray painted one of the new $3 million train cars that aren't even in service yet.

[colin]

Phoenix and Tucson both have terrible grafitti problems. I'm not surprised that the cars have already been tagged, but it's kind of silly of them to do it so early since no one will ever see it.

[MJLO]

that annoys me, why do people feel the need to tag things? Is it some kind of adrenaline rush from potentially being caught?

[colin]

Phoenix will trash pink granite for light rail

I didn't even realize that was granite there on Central. Like the article says, just looks like bricks.

[traal]

The construction on Main will cause some hardship to merchants, but the long term interests of the City are better served by putting the rail line in the most prominent location possible.

[colin]

I want it on the Main Street corridor, but just not on Main itself. They were able to get away with putting it on Washington in Phoenix because it's not that well-traveled. But Main has so much traffic that it would be a killer to Mesa to first have to practically close the road to get the rail in, then remove at least one lane to keep it in.

How about on University? Or (crazy idea here) the existing rail line that runs between Tempe and Mesa?

[traal]

Looks like Mesa will be studying the possibility of extending the line as far as the Mormon Temple through 2009. That would extend it 3 miles, from just east of Dobson and Main, past downtown Mesa, to just east of Mesa Drive and Main.

Running it down University doesn't sound like such a bad idea. If they built it along University, 10 years from now businesses in downtown Mesa would look at all the new development and foot traffic along University and regret not supporting it running down Main Street.

In any case, don't stores affected by the light rail construction get low-interest loans to help offset the lost business?

Maybe they should build a traffic bypass around Main Street (similar to Goldwater and Drinkwater in Scottsdale), make the downtown stretch of Main Street a car-free zone (pedestrian mall) and then run light rail through it. Then light rail construction along Main Street wouldn't affect traffic or business as much.

[colin]

Maybe they should build a traffic bypass around Main Street (similar to Goldwater and Drinkwater in Scottsdale), make the downtown stretch of Main Street a car-free zone (pedestrian mall) and then run light rail through it. Then light rail construction along Main Street wouldn't affect traffic or business as much.

[traal]

I don't know much about the history of light rail here in San Diego. In fact, I've only ridden it once, but the particular line I was on was fast, smooth, clean, and enjoyable overall. (I hear bad things about at least one of the other lines, though.) Now San Diego just needs to get that BRT route going, the one going to and from Escondido that they're practically rebuilding the I-15 for.

You're right, Mesa probably wouldn't go for the bypass-and-walkable-downtown thing, but if it came to either that or rerouting the light rail line around downtown Mesa, I wonder which of these the downtown merchants would choose.