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Light Rail in the valley


MJLO

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I drove around down Central between about Indian School and Mc Dowell on Saturday.

cool - i was in this area of phoenix (for the first time) on saturday as well. drove 7th all the way from the north loop to the indian school rd. area. it was a strange first impression.

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The more I research Phoenix developements, the more I appreciate the whole concept of light rail. So many things are tied to it. So many new developements. I'm coming up with a list of projects that probabally wouldn't be happening or proposed if it weren't for the light rail.

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Ok so i've been thinking, and don't be scared I don't think I hurt myself this time. But with the metro rail running at street level. How efficient will it be say compared to the mass transit systems in Chicago and DC. I'm pretty sure subways are heavy rail. But they don't stop for anything, and it seems like light rail would have to stop at traffic lights. And don't people run the risk of being hit by these things? Don't pedestrians have to walk accross tracks and all? I will say it's been very cool to watch them with all the construction working on it at Sky Harbor. I catch a glimpse everyday on my way to work.

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Ok so i've been thinking, and don't be scared I don't think I hurt myself this time. But with the metro rail running at street level. How efficient will it be say compared to the mass transit systems in Chicago and DC. I'm pretty sure subways are heavy rail. But they don't stop for anything, and it seems like light rail would have to stop at traffic lights. And don't people run the risk of being hit by these things? Don't pedestrians have to walk accross tracks and all? I will say it's been very cool to watch them with all the construction working on it at Sky Harbor. I catch a glimpse everyday on my way to work.

Well, there are two examples that I have seen which are similar to the Phoenix light rail: Houston and Salt Lake. Both cities have one-line light rail systems which run at street grade and must navigate traffic and signals.

In Houston, little was done for the accommodation of traffic and, as a result, there were and continue to be many accidents with cars pulling in front of the train. I also remember hearing about a couple of pedestrian/train accidents. In every case, it was the other person's fault. Nevertheless, it was a blow to the system as a whole.

In SLC, many left turns have been restricted along the corridor, and when there is a left turn, there's a special little light rail signal so that the train can move without people trying to pull in front of it. I was told that accidents with the light rail are rare there.

There's also San Diego and Denver. SD's light rail actually functions more like a heavy rail and it's rarely on the streets (maybe not at all). Denver has just opened a few days ago, but much of it is also off the streets on a separate track.

Thus, I certainly hope that Phoenix follows the SLC model. It will certainly be interesting to see, though.

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hehehe I'd rather see heavy rail. It just seems more organized.

It's hugely expensive to build a heavy rail system however and that is why you don't see it in most places. As mentioned above, light rail can be built in its own ROW but that increases the costs to build it. In Houston's case, they were specifically forbidden to apply for federal funding so they had to build it completely with local money. This is why the system runs right in the street and as a result is the subject of frequent accidents with automobiles.

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In Houston's case, they were specifically forbidden to apply for federal funding so they had to build it completely with local money. This is why the system runs right in the street and as a result is the subject of frequent accidents with automobiles.

Yeah, THANKS TOM DELAY!

I believe SLC also had federal funding for theirs, and Tucson is getting federal matching funds for its "modern streetcar". Houston was at a huge disadvantage in this respect though, and the system they have is pretty impressive considering their funding.

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Ok, and why was Houston "strictly forbidden" to use federal money?

Every other place in the country probabally has. My home town is useing federal money just to do a feasability study on it!

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

Anyone have any updates on the light rail? I take it there isn't any light or heavy rail systems in AZ yet. Are there any trolley/streetcar systems or is it just mainly buses right now? I caught part of a meeting while I was in Albuquerque talking about a light rail or streetcar system. Looks like they are now looking more towards a trolley/streetcar system because of costs. For Albuquerque the trolley/streetcar system is expected to cost around $28 Mil a mile. But a light rail would be more around the $75 Mil to $100Mil in the area they were looking at. Anyone have any opinions the two types of systems?

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  • 2 months later...

Light rail may be coming to the west valley sooner than originally planned.

The I-10 route isn't scheduled to open until 2019, after extensions open in Tempe, Mesa, north Phoenix toward Metrocenter mall and into downtown Glendale.

Metro officials insist they don't want to change that voter-mandated sequence, which would take a majority vote of all the cities in the region.

But the I-10 line is gaining prominence in city halls for three reasons: rapidly increasing traffic, state plans to widen the interstate and the opening of University of Phoenix Stadium and Westgate Center in Glendale.

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Billions are already being invested in the valley, due to the light rail work. This article talks of alot of infill projects. Doesn't mention anything specific, but it sounds like there are tons of mid to rises planned all over the valley. It's sad we don't get much word on it. I'm excited to think that the light rail could bring much needed tall buildings and infill.

One thing I have learned, is not to get excited over these things until there are caissons in the ground and steel rising. Phoenix, much like my hometown, makes people work hard if they want to build up.

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Metro to ask for more money to speed LRT up.

1.7billion is how much they want. and it's not for the immediate, it's so they can finish by 2020, I had no idea that it was projected to take that long!!!

One of the opponents of it is a State senator from Havasu. Of course he'd be against it. I have a feeling the rest of Arizona looks at the valley with disdain.

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Metro to ask for more money to speed LRT up.

1.7billion is how much they want. and it's not for the immediate, it's so they can finish by 2020, I had no idea that it was projected to take that long!!!

One of the opponents of it is a State senator from Havasu. Of course he'd be against it. I have a feeling the rest of Arizona looks at the valley with disdain.

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Arizona wouldn't really be much without Phoenix, much like Georgia wouldn't be anything without Atlanta. We're experiencing similar problems where people don't support their major city (or cities) in terms of growth or infrastructure...simply b/c they don't think they'll get anything out of it.
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Arizona wouldn't really be much without Phoenix, much like Georgia wouldn't be anything without Atlanta. We're experiencing similar problems where people don't support their major city (or cities) in terms of growth or infrastructure...simply b/c they don't think they'll get anything out of it.
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Yeah, I think you're getting into that whole "cultural center" tag that I like to bring up a lot. Atlanta is definitively the cultural center of Georgia and I doubt anyone would question that. However, is Phoenix the cultural center of Arizona?

I'd say no, only because, collectively, Tucson just seems to have more culture: better bars, better music scene, more museums, a very comparable university (notice the deliberate omission of "better" there), a better arts scene, and a generally less-transient nature.

I'm not saying that Tucson is the cultural center of the state, but it's just definitely not Phoenix.

And, BTW, remember that it was those Valley SoB's in the legislature (looking at you, Jeff Flake) that tried to block our Rio Nuevo extension. Sure, Rio Nuevo is BS, but their motivation was solely "It's Tucson-related, so I'm against it". If you want to truly gauge how this I-10 rivalry is driving the light rail funding (something I strongly support, in spite of my general disdain for Phoenix Metro), look at Tim Bee, Republican senator from Tucson and now the president of the Senate. But don't automatically assume "Well, Tucson's going to stop this" just because Phoenix politicos try to pull that same crap with us and our politicians are going for some form of revenge. We're more mature than that!

:P

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Yeah, I think you're getting into that whole "cultural center" tag that I like to bring up a lot. Atlanta is definitively the cultural center of Georgia and I doubt anyone would question that. However, is Phoenix the cultural center of Arizona?

I'd say no, only because, collectively, Tucson just seems to have more culture: better bars, better music scene, more museums, a very comparable university (notice the deliberate omission of "better" there), a better arts scene, and a generally less-transient nature.

I'm not saying that Tucson is the cultural center of the state, but it's just definitely not Phoenix.

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As an outsider I'd agree too, UofA is definately more acedemically renown, where ASU is something akin to " Bob's College". However, my particular disdain for the entire state of Arizona, won't keep me from commenting here. I don't have Ben's grace with words, or Colins liberal, and refined views. I like to shop at my national chains, eat at mcdonalds, and leave the shower running while I read a novel in the other room, while every light, and appliance runs simulteneously. I hail from a second city, in a state full of old cities with old traditions and deep pockets. So I know what it's like to be in a great town that gets no respect because it ever lies in the shadows of the bohemoth two hours away. I would question if Tucson is the cultural center of Arizona, Arizona has very little in the way or culture, or the Arts. I would say in the past Tucson had the edge, but as Phoenix keeps growing, and as people develope more roots here, you'll see that shift more and more, I firmly believe that Phoenix is growing into itself as a city, and those amenities are really starting to shine thru. LRT is just one example.

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Report suggests Gateway goals:

Also absent is public transportation at the airport for students at Arizona State University Polytechnic and Chandler-Gilbert Community College. Both campuses, the report states, are oriented to commuter students and would be well served by immediate extensions of Valley Metro bus service. Extension of the light-rail system should also be emphasized.
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  • 3 weeks later...

Phoenix light-rail extension revised; will now have 3.2-mile first phase

This article doesn't mention which segment is being cut from the 2012 plan, but I would assume that it's the northern section.

What are these "onerous" federal guidelines and how have they "grown" to be so? I mean, were they not as onerous a year ago?

Don't like the Republic as much, but they have a more detailed article:

Light-rail plans in northwest Valley adjusted

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maybe they are realizing that noone goes to the metro center mall any more so it would be silly. Metrocenter, is officially Phoenix's "other mall". It was built in the 80's, and like anything else ten years or more old in this town, it's now in the " bad part of town".

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I thought that was Fiesta Mall. Or is that just "the dead mall"?

It's not the best area, but it does have density than other areas, right? I mean, you have a lot of working-class apartments in that area and those are the best places to put public transit. You can't just run it out to golf course subdivisions and skip the stops in the ghetto. That's not what mass transit is, man. Enough socialist ranting.

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