Signature Tower Prices Too High

[gusrock1414]

The signature condos do look marvelous, but those prices are too high for Nashville. I am afraid that nashville is going too much too fast with the condo additions in general. Why would you buy a one bdr one bath in signature for 351,000 when you can buy a nice 1500 sq ft home in one of the suburbs(franklin,hendersonville,mt. juliet, murfreesboro,etc.)? I am afraid speculators are going to get their butts handed to them bc the growth and fundamentals are not there to support this rush of condo units. No way for those prices. And by the way, all the businesses are in brentwood and franklin, not in downtown nashville.

[cheeriokid61]

Well, we're hoping that this project will jumpstart an urban renewal in downtown. We realize that most of the businesses are in the suburbs, but I think that downtown is starting to bounce back, and people and businesses are starting to move back. At least that's what I hope.

[Lexy]

The signature condos do look marvelous, but those prices are too high for nashville,tn. I am afraid that nashville is going too much too fast with the condo additions in general. Why would you buy a one bdr one bath in signature for 351,000 when you can buy a nice 1500 sq ft home in one of the suburbs(franklin,hendersonville,mt. juliet, murfreesboro,etc.)? I am afraid speculators are going to get their butts handed to them bc the growth and fundamentals are not there to support this rush of condo units. No way for those prices. And by the way, all the businesses are in brentwood and franklin, not in downtown nashville.

So far almost 100 units have been sold. I guess those folks don't want to live in the dirty, unorganized suburbs. And with the market this tower is directed to, price and money isn't the issue here. There is a market for this tower, just take a look at the recent numbers concerning wages and yearly income averages for the market. Nashville boast two of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the country in Green Hills and Belle Meade. There is certainly a market for this or else Viridian wouldn't be sold out. Plus, the amount of research, study's, and market reports support the idea that Tony, and his staff, have toward the future feasibility of a tower of this magnitude in Nashville. BTW, this is an URBAN forum....not a SUBURBAN forum.

Don't get me started on those pathetic little cry baby suburbs in Williamson County again. I just finally got in a good mood. And you're wrong about the business comment my friend. Shall I go down the list of offices in downtown?

[ariesjow]

The signature condos do look marvelous, but those prices are too high for nashville,tn. I am afraid that nashville is going too much too fast with the condo additions in general. Why would you buy a one bdr one bath in signature for 351,000 when you can buy a nice 1500 sq ft home in one of the suburbs(franklin,hendersonville,mt. juliet, murfreesboro,etc.)? I am afraid speculators are going to get their butts handed to them bc the growth and fundamentals are not there to support this rush of condo units. No way for those prices. And by the way, all the businesses are in brentwood and franklin, not in downtown nashville.

Some people don't want to live in the suburbs and would pay a premium to live in a downtown highrise with the best views in the city. Would it ease your fear if I told you Sig has already pre-sold something like 25% of the units this fast? Nashville can support its current condo proposals easily, IMHO. This isn't just a Nashville thing. Folks all over the nation are moving back into the city. Pretty much every large city in the country is having an urban condo boom and when these Music City projects in get finished, they're going to attract even more people into the city.

[Lexy]

I hate suburban mentality. The "Everything will be okay out in the suburbs" idea is such a bold face lie to the general public. But yet, there are those that fall for it every freakin time.

Sorry about that fellas. Back on topic.

[titanhog]

Ya know Lexy, you can take your smart aleck Urban ego and stick it. Some of us on here live in the suburbs and love everything about the suburbs. We also happen to love Nashville and its urban fabric. I have a feeling if all of us despicable suburbanites fled the area, Nashville would cease to exist.

[Lexy]

Ya know Lexy, you can take your smart aleck Urban ego and stick it. Some of us on here live in the suburbs and love everything about the suburbs. We also happen to love Nashville and its urban fabric. I have a feeling if all of us despicable suburbanites fled the area, Nashville would cease to exist.

I live in Murfreesboro, so get over it man. I wasn't talking about the people being stupid. But your comment makes me wonder.

Do I want to move back into the city? Yes. Am I? Yes. Different strokes for different folks. I just have my opinions about the 'burbs and that is my right. Expression is just another part of my rights. So if you don't like it then tuff. This is a board about URBAN discussion. Last time I checked, the 'burbs add nothing to the urbanity of Nashville my friend.

[NewTowner]

I live in Murfreesboro, so get over it man. I wasn't talking about the people being stupid. But your comment makes me wonder.

Do I want to move back into the city? Yes. Am I? Yes. Different strokes for different folks. I just have my opinions about the 'burbs and that is my right. Expression is just another part of my rights. So if you don't like it then tuff. This is a board about URBAN discussion. Last time I checked, the 'burbs add nothing to the urbanity of Nashville my friend.

Whoa. Wow, Lexy! I totally agree with you (and always have, for the most part). Now you know how it feels to have somebody jump down your throat for what seems like no reason.

Anyway, I'm not posting to get all up in your sorrows--I'm posting to say I agree with you. Suburbanites should not be bashed (and anyone can see that you were not bashing them, by the way), but the automobile-dependent suburbs present a self-destructive pattern for living and this is just a fact. Walkable downtown rules because its walkable.

Skyscrapers suck, but whatever. Now I'm just stirring the pot.

[gusrock1414]

Lexy,

You must be joking about the businesses downtown compared to williamson county. I want you to do your research and prove me wrong. Well, I have nothing against urban living, but I do have a problem with overpriced housing. The majority of Viridian purchases are speculators if you didn't know. Don't believe what the media, or the Viridian people tell you, speculators own those, not people who actually want to live there. Your point about Green Hills and Belle Meade is not even close to consideration of a market for these units. Those are great communities and who would want to leave there to get less space in downtown? I am sure Tony G did do his research and the guy is clearly not an idiot, but I just question the pricing of these units. I think they are too high.

[Lexy]

Lexy,

You must be joking about the businesses downtown compared to williamson county. I want you to do your research and prove me wrong. Well, I have nothing against urban living, but I do have a problem with overpriced housing. The majority of Viridian purchases are speculators if you didn't know. Don't believe what the media, or the Viridian people tell you, speculators own those, not people who actually want to live there. Your point about Green Hills and Belle Meade is not even close to consideration of a market for these units. Those are great communities and who would want to leave there to get less space in downtown? I am sure Tony G did do his research and the guy is clearly not an idiot, but I just question the pricing of these units. I think they are too high.

That is fine if you think that about the prices. Heck, I think that too! LOL!! But hey ya know, i'm not buyin so it's an easy choice for me. Consider what you are getting here. No need to trim a lawn, have landscaping, nosey neighbors looking over their fences at your wife sunbatheing, etc. THE premier location in the city with the PREMIER views and location, location, location!

On the topic of Cool Springs: Look, I realize that they have the majority of business', but downtown has their share too. Look at the banks regional HQ's, Caremark, Law Firms, etc. It's not dead and dried up like many would LIKE to think. Matter of fact...I think it will see a resurgance in the office market as the number of residents that are qualified for higher end jobs increases in downtown. I know for a fact that a few developers see this trend like I do in the future. Do I like Cool Springs for it's fake attractivness? No I don't. Do I think downtown can draw some business' from their Cool Springs "Safe house" in the future? Absolutely without a doubt!

I am not saying that a Belle Meade resident is going to pack up and move downtown. That just will not happen, period. But what I tried to do was establish that a market for these types of expensive housing options is, in fact, there. And people are buying them whether it's realtors or actual people. Either way, the market can absorb quite a few residential units in the core at the moment. There is a large number of affordable units under development in downtown, just right down the street from Sig. Tower too you know.

Again, almost 100 units have been sold in a week. Obviously price wasn't an issue for them, whoever they are. That is fantastic news for this tower and this city in general. I would rather have 400 units vertically than 400 McMansions in Franklin, tearing up a beautiful countryside with some half-butt built stucco home.

NT, I love ya still the same man. It has been a bad week, forgive me for my stupidity.

[Dale]

I'm not sure what is meant by 'overpriced'. We'll know that Signature is overpriced if it doesn't sell, which doesn't appear to be the case.

That said, suburbs rule! *runs away*

[titanhog]

I live in Murfreesboro, so get over it man. I wasn't talking about the people being stupid. But your comment makes me wonder.

Do I want to move back into the city? Yes. Am I? Yes. Different strokes for different folks. I just have my opinions about the 'burbs and that is my right. Expression is just another part of my rights. So if you don't like it then tuff. This is a board about URBAN discussion. Last time I checked, the 'burbs add nothing to the urbanity of Nashville my friend.

First of all, MAN, I am a woman. And yes, I am probably "stupid" as you imply because I'm sure I'm wasting my time debating you over your loose comments. Once again, my concern is that you are slinging inflammatory opinions around that happen to offend those of us who love both the suburban areas of Metro Nashville and the urban area. Maybe you don't care, and that's your prerogative. I do care, and that's MY prerogative. So...I'll end with this...I love 99% of your posts, appreciate your great photos, but despise your backhanded comments.

So...take a cue from yourself...lay off suburbia...this IS an URBAN discussion board.

[Skyscrapergeek]

Wow! Somebody mop up the blood. All I'm going to say is, I had the most amazing childhood growing up in the burbs. I wouldn't trade it for 100 Signature Towers BUT, now that I'm a small business owner and in my thirties, I sure would like to live on the 65th floor.

And honestly, to say that ST is overpriced for Nashville is wishful thinking.

[satalac]

Well, I have nothing against urban living, but I do have a problem with overpriced housing.

well welcome to williamson county then. look at the square footage that you can get in nashville, then compare that square footage that you can get in williamson county, then look at the price difference. nashville is going to be less expensive. a single tower in downtown shouldn't be used as the average of downtown living. you can't compare a whole county against a tower. it just doesn't work that way. and if you're getting only 1500 sq ft for $350k, you are getting ripped off my friend. my parents just bought a 2700 sq ft house for that much. it's on holt rd right on the brentwood line. you know what it would cost if it was on the other side of that line? at least $400-500k.

[it's just dave]

It's really all about choices anyway, right? Why would everyone follow the same model for living their lives in the first place? There are positive points to each choice. If I were younger, married and had two kids and could afford it, I'd live in Davidson County and send the kids to a private school since magnets aren't guaranteed. If I couldn't afford so much, I'd probably live in Wilson County and send the kids to good public schools with good kids and a safety factor that's hard to measure but more assured in an outlying region.

That being said, I'm not married with kids, and if the cards align properly in the next few years, I'll probably get tired of the maintenance on my house and yard, and want to move downtown. To Signature? No, but with the developing areas and neighborhoods around Rolling Mill and SoBro, I can see myself doing something like that. At this point, my house is what I can afford. In so many cases, a house like mine is all many people can afford and living close to the trendy little neighborhoods is more of a financial commitment than I'll allow myself. I'm less than 10 minutes from downtown, less than 10 minutes from Rivergate, so I get what I need.

I also feel that "suburb" as a blanket term for all things bad is incorrect. Some of these areas are delightful. Beautiful homes, convenient amenities, neighbors, beautiful grocery stores, kids for kids to play with, and all that goes along with being an American who has actually made the lifestyle choice.

I think where we stray here too often is that we define "urban" as our dream and "suburban" as everything else not fitting our mindset. That's just not the right way. Each person should pursue what is best for their sensibilities and possibilities. And that's fine.

A little blending of thought might be in order here. As a community, we are a sum of our parts. I'd hate to think everything around the nucleus is bad; it clearly is not, and in some cases, as close to heaven as one might ever get. Nashville is the beating heart in a body of a great community. Making the heart stronger is a major step in improving the health of the entire body. Let's not cut off our arms and legs and be left with only the heart. Things don't work that way. All you really have to do is, while your out on the interstate, just think about these million or so people around us. Would they fit downtown? Of course not, not ever. But, there are people who haven't had the choice to live in a downtown condo who now do, or will, and will pursue their life's course there.

As far as prices being too high in Signature. For those making that choice, no. All one has to do is to see the thousands and thousands of expensive houses out there to realize that a few hundred of them might choose to spend their money differently, for now, there is a choice. Before, there was not. Everyone is different with a choice of lifestyle. That's a really beautiful thing, isn't it?

[smeagolsfree]

Its just a matter of choice. If someone has a product and a number of people can afford to buy then its fine with me. Are all the suburban 5 million dollars overpriced? Well it depends on how much money you can spend. For my blood it is overpriced to me but for someone else, no.

Market supply and demand is what we are dealing with here. I think they are priced according to what you are going to get. Its a great product and people are willing to pay for it.

[it's just dave]

Geee, smeag, you make me look so wordy.

[NewTowner]

well welcome to williamson county then. look at the square footage that you can get in nashville, then compare that square footage that you can get in williamson county, then look at the price difference. nashville is going to be less expensive. a single tower in downtown shouldn't be used as the average of downtown living. you can't compare a whole county against a tower. it just doesn't work that way. and if you're getting only 1500 sq ft for $350k, you are getting ripped off my friend. my parents just bought a 2700 sq ft house for that much. it's on holt rd right on the brentwood line. you know what it would cost if it was on the other side of that line? at least $400-500k.

I think there are several legitimate reasons behind Signature Tower's high-dollar fetching power, although I present these as speculation, not fact backed up with some sort of tasty but elusive "evidence":

1) Branding: The picturesque concern with "Big City Living" is a fashionable item that countless Nashvillians are obsessed with. They will pay more to live in a high-rise for the same reasons that they will permit the ubiquitous spread of high-rises--namely, it makes them feel more "urbane" and compensates for worrying feelings of provinciality. You cannot buy "urban ch

[smeagolsfree]

Geee, smeag, you make me look so wordy.

I didn't realize you were posting while I was posting. Great minds think alike.

[Jeeper12]

So far almost 100 units have been sold. I guess those folks don't want to live in the dirty, unorganized suburbs. And with the market this tower is directed to, price and money isn't the issue here. There is a market for this tower, just take a look at the recent numbers concerning wages and yearly income averages for the market. Nashville boast two of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the country in Green Hills and Belle Meade. There is certainly a market for this or else Viridian wouldn't be sold out. Plus, the amount of research, study's, and market reports support the idea that Tony, and his staff, have toward the future feasibility of a tower of this magnitude in Nashville. BTW, this is an URBAN forum....not a SUBURBAN forum.

Don't get me started on those pathetic little cry baby suburbs in Williamson County again. I just finally got in a good mood. And you're wrong about the business comment my friend. Shall I go down the list of offices in downtown?

I think it's fair to point out that nothing has been "sold" at ST yet. It appears there's been strong interest in "reserving" the opportunity to purchase by putting up a few thousand refundable dollars. I'm afraid we won't know how much of the interest is real until buyers are required to increase the deposit to 5%. Given the preconstruction "goldrush" mentality that seems to be out there these days maybe it will carry over from reservations to contracts.

I also think drawing comparisons between Sig T and Mt. Juliet, Murfreesboro, etc. are basically irrelevant; comparing those burb options to Viridian or Icon seems more appropriate. Similarly, I don't think Viridian's success to that of Sig T since one's price point is $250k and the other almost triple that; totally different demograghics. And contrary to some other posts, economics do matter, even to rich folks. I think a more interesting question is why someone willing to spend $700-800k (seems to be the average) for a home would pay Sig T $500 a foot (i.e. take a much smaller unit) when other attractive urban options are currently available for much less. I agree that being way up in the air (above 30 stories) is worth a limited premium I'm just not sure what it is.

[gusrock1414]

I don't think you people understand how much supply there is going to be in 2009. And when the economy turns and interest rates are going higher, nashville is not immune to that effect. My point is that there is too much supply of condos overall in nashville. I think they are trying to grow too much, too fast in downtown and it will be a nightmare for everyone. If you want me to say that the ST units are not overpriced is ridiculous bc you are paying 400K for 800 sq ft of space. However, is there demand for these units? I don't think there is REAL demand bc of these prices. Living on the 50th floor would be nice, but I don't think its worth it. I am a young single and I don't make enough money to live there. I don't know anyone that could pay a mortgage payment of that amount at such a young age. You have to remember who will be living downtown. Young Singles. Can young single group be able to pay for one of those? I dont think so. If you say that is not the market here, then WHO IS?

My overall point is that there is too many condo units coming up in nashville and someone will get bit eventually. Maybe not ST, maybe not Viridian, but what about Adelicia, SoBro area, the Sounds new ones? There is not enough demand for the amount of supply coming. Granted, I am in urban planet so I don't expect anyone to take my side on this. Urban life is the only life according to you people like Lexy.

[satalac]

I don't think you people understand how much supply there is going to be in 2009. And when the economy turns and interest rates are going higher, nashville is not immune to that effect. My point is that there is too much supply of condos overall in nashville. I think they are trying to grow too much, too fast in downtown and it will be a nightmare for everyone. If you want me to say that the ST units are not overpriced is ridiculous bc you are paying 400K for 800 sq ft of space. However, is there demand for these units? I don't think there is REAL demand bc of these prices. Living on the 50th floor would be nice, but I don't think its worth it. I am a young single and I don't make enough money to live there. I don't know anyone that could pay a mortgage payment of that amount at such a young age. You have to remember who will be living downtown. Young Singles. Can young single group be able to pay for one of those? I dont think so. If you say that is not the market here, then WHO IS?

My overall point is that there is too many condo units coming up in nashville and someone will get bit eventually. Maybe not ST, maybe not Viridian, but what about Adelicia, SoBro area, the Sounds new ones? There is not enough demand for the amount of supply coming. Granted, I am in urban planet so I don't expect anyone to take my side on this. Urban life is the only life according to you people like Lexy.

you have failed to take into account that there actually are young singles with that kind of money here in nashville. they are also all over the country, and signature is going to attract them. and the condo market in downtown was pretty much non-existant 5 years ago. there is a lot of pent up demand for these kinds of units. sure the sig will be expensive, but this is just 400 units. there are definatly 400 people out of the 1.5 million that live in the metropolitan area that is willing to pay this. the other condo units will be a little bit more less expensive than the sig. understand that the sig is for upscale living, it doesn't pretend to be public housing. it's like having a ford and a mercedes dealership on the same street. the mercedes lot sure is nice to look at and people will definatly buy from there, but the majority will buy from the ford lot (sorry to all those chevy fans, not trying to exclude you ). just because you don't think that it's worth the money to live on the 50th floor doesn't mean that someone else doesn't. take a look at the icon. when it went on the market it sold out in 48 hours. that just goes to show how built up the demand is for condo living downtown. just because you don't want to spend the money to live there doesn't mean other won't. also, that barb pointed at lexy and those like minded of him is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? the only difference is that you're for suburban and most of us are for urban living. let's not let our opinions on living conditions get into a personal shouting match. it's not condusive to intelligent communication.

[gaushell]

To further confuse things - the demographic for projects like Sig is a market that isn't as concerned over the cost per square foot as you and I might be.

People actually buy because they want to have something special. For instance, if you had enough money and wanted a sports car, you could buy a Porche or you could be a Lamborgini - both are sports cars, both are really nice - but if you buy the Lambo, it is because you are buying a look, lifestyle, dream, whatever you want to call it. Not that everyone would choose that, but some people clearly do.

The other issue that you have empty nesters that want to be able to "lock and leave" for extended periods. Many are willing to give up their larger suburbian homes for urban projects. There is also the convenience issue for those working in that area or interested in the entertainment.

We have people in Memphis, that live in G'town, Collierville, East Memphis, and own a condo downtown that they only use on weekends or special events.

It is personal preferrence. I live in Germantown and right now with 3 kids have no desire to live in downtown Memphis. But once they are out of the house, it would be something I would seriously entertain.

So I'm not going to take a position on is anything worth it, because we all have different preferences and make choices according the lifestyle we want to live. Including our choice of suburban neighborhoods.

If people buy it, then it is worth it. I would never buy a Lamborgini, but then I don't have the money to even contemplate that.

[Guest]

welcome gusrock

Happy to read your insights but a little perspective might help. The market d'town is just now building to address pent-up demand. So when you add that variable to the growing urban trend nationally the projected population by 2010 - 2012 is over 12K. This is phenomenal considering 200-2001 the d'town population was approx. 800-1100.

There are many many developments taking root and as the demographics shift. And it may suprise you that 'typical' resident is actually quite varied. In my builing alone the percentages are as follows:

Retired (60+)- 30%

Young Family (30-40)- 10%

Middle Age Single Professinals (40-60)- 30%

Young Single Professionals (20-30)- 20%

Yound Married Profesional (20-30)- 10%

All moved from Suburbs:

Outside TN - Arizona, Ohio, Wisconsin

In Tennessee - Brentwood (3), Knoxvile, Chattanooga, Knoxvile (second home), Germantown

Now may thre be too many housing units EVENTUALLY built? Quite possible as in ANY market with lead times several years in the future it can get tricky perfectly matching supply and demand.

[gaushell]

you have failed to take into account that there actually are young singles with that kind of money here in nashville.....

Guess we were typing at the same time. Good points.