Westin on Lower Broad

[memphian]

I think Westin could do a very urban cowboy themed hotel and pull it off well. Kind of like a "New York meets Nashville." Call the restaurant or bar "Town and Country" and have live accoustic music (especially if the outlet opened on to Broadway).

[jcoop]

I've often thought that a lot of the SoBro side of lower Broadway had a lot of potential but was not being utilized properly compared to the buildings directly across the street and I think if designed in the right way, this could be a very good thing.

I completely agree that demolition of the buildings would be devastating, but if it is set back far enough from the street, it wouldn't seem very imposing or out of place especially with the addition of Encore and other possibilities in the immediate SoBro area.

[it's just dave]

Well, Memphian, that's an idea, I guess. lol. But as much as I defend the Broadway we have, if "they" do something like that, I might have to jump off a bridge...with most of the city of Nashville right behind me. Let's respect what we have and what we were, but let's not get carried away. I've got some snob in me right behind my defensive attitude. (see brown, I sit on big fences).

-------

I have to quit doing this at work. I'm volatile. Memphian, I don't know your vision, but the one I had after reading your post scared me. I'm okay now. I fast-forwarded back to 2006 and everything was fine. I back-flashed in to the U Cowboy script when I read you post and got the quivers. I need some coffee.

[memphian]

Well Dave - certainly you don't expect a Westin Hotel to exactly fit in on lower Broadway do you? Let's just say it does happen and they build a normal, sterile, modern-luxury hotel that Westin is known for then what has lower Broad gained?

I think a musically themed hotel be it country, rock or classical is one thing that is missing in Nashville. Someone is going to do it at some point.

LOL - yeah I am not 100% sold on the Urban Cowboy themed hotel either but it was the first thing that popped into my head so I ran with it.

[memphian]

I have to quit doing this at work. I'm volatile. Memphian, I don't know your vision, but the one I had after reading your post scared me. I'm okay now.

Its all good. After I posted it all I could picture for a moment was lots of bad John Travolta movies. I was thinking something a bit more modern than campy.

[chris holman]

I think Westin could do a very urban cowboy themed hotel and pull it off well. Kind of like a "New York meets Nashville." Call the restaurant or bar "Town and Country" and have live accoustic music (especially if the outlet opened on to Broadway).

NO Thanks!!!

[Richard Lawson]

Some of it may look like junk, but the rednecks and the tourist are what keep a lot of business downtown. That is what gives Nashville some of the small city feel to it. Its redneck charm can be very useful. I think you will find a lot of people that will be against this. That is what people come to see when they are in Nashville and then they find out there is a lot more to it.

But downtowns evolve. Look at what replaced those tourist shops on Demonbreun. Architecture might be challenged but that area traded tourists for locals.

[Richard Lawson]

Thought you guys might get a kick out of this

http://www.slevingroup.com/

[sleepy]

Personally, I'm a bit miffed at the calling of these downtown visitors rednecks. On your last trips downtown anytime in the past few years, have you actually OPENED your eyes to see who these people are? Probably not, if that's the impression you get. Look at them. Know who they are. Maybe twenty years ago that was the case, but if you haven't noticed time has moved on and we're getting a lot of visitors, both domestic and foreign who are here to enjoy the ambience and uniqueness of what we offer. You should slap yourself for insulting the very people who are traveling here and making us the unique destination we are.

I'm not going to even begin to describe the scenes I see everyday on Broadway, but it doesn't resemble anything you've described. Where do you get this idea, anyway? Yes, you are a snob. Get your head out of your butt and get down there and take a long, hard look at what's there and the people spending their money on this variety. If you see some oddities, more power to us for having character as a city shlould. Does all this embarrass you? If so, why would it. You should embrace it like the Golden Goose it is. Or stay in Green Hills where it's safe. Or wherever you hang your hat.

Sorry, this just ticked me off. The assumptions were unfair, extremely off-base, and quite out of date. Calling LoBro junk....THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS in my book.

I agree that Nashville should preserve its architectural and cultural identity. If there are honkytonks and bars, so what? Those are things that unconsciously evolved with time and can't be manufactured. Most cities don't have that sort of thing.

[NewTowner]

With so many empty parking lots downtown that DON'T have buildings on them AT ALL, it would be a crime and a shame to tear down some of Nashville's few remaining human-scaled, embellished, historic buildings in order to erect another mega-structure.

The arguments about these buildings' current uses are moot. The structures themselves are rare--they have endured many transformations in the past, and would likely be able to endure many more in the future--assuming they aren't arbitrarily demolished, of course. With all the empty space in the core of our "progressive" and "beautiful" city, it is hard to believe the Luftwaffe never made bombing runs in North America. Looks like we are going to blow ourselves up again--and in peacetime, no less. What in the hell is going on here? Why won't these jokers build on a parking lot?

This is just so obvious it makes me want to cry. Please, my good people--put the brakes on and think about this for a few minutes before lining up in "progress" formation. This is so lame.

[Anti-ock]

Eee, Westin

Haven't heard anything from the higher-ups so it MUST be in the early stages of development.

Just think, if Nashville gets a new W in Sig and a Westin downtown we'll have three Starwood properties in the core alone. Marriott can take their ugly carpeting and shove it!

Oh, and some of you who are chiding Nashville's "honky tonk" history should just pipe down... it's what makes the city unique. Everyone else around the country views Nashville as the country music capital and they love it. If you don't like it, move to Raleigh or somewhere else bland and uninspiring.

[Richard Lawson]

Eee, Westin

Haven't heard anything from the higher-ups so it MUST be in the early stages of development.

Just think, if Nashville gets a new W in Sig and a Westin downtown we'll have three Starwood properties in the core alone. Marriott can take their ugly carpeting and shove it!

Oh, and some of you who are chiding Nashville's "honky tonk" history should just pipe down... it's what makes the city unique. Everyone else around the country views Nashville as the country music capital and they love it. If you don't like it, move to Raleigh or somewhere else bland and uninspiring.

W probably won't got to Sig. Sheraton is tired and in need of refurb

[Guest]

Richard

Do you an educated guess on which hotel flags Tony G is targeting? We had some opinions earlier but I do not remember if you posted in that thread.

[QuietMike]

With so many empty parking lots downtown that DON'T have buildings on them AT ALL, it would be a crime and a shame to tear down some of Nashville's few remaining human-scaled, embellished, historic buildings in order to erect another mega-structure.

The arguments about these buildings' current uses are moot. The structures themselves are rare--they have endured many transformations in the past, and would likely be able to endure many more in the future--assuming they aren't arbitrarily demolished, of course.

This project is so far from happening that this entire discussion is academic, but have you seen these buildings? I completely agree with you that current use is irrelevant and that there's no reason to tear down our existing human-scaled, embellished, historic buildings in order to erect another big box. I'm just not sure that the buildings on this site fall into that category. At least 1/3 of the block is a surface lot. The next 1/3 looks like it's already been demolished and rebuilt. The final 1/3 is at least historic and human-scaled, but is not embellished at all (aside from the beautiful brown siding fashioned to look like barn doors).

Do I wish this project was proposed a couple blocks south in an empty lot? Sure. Would it be the end of the world if this block fell victim to the wrecking ball? Probably not, IF the historic nature, character, and scale of the area is preserved, as stressed by the developer and the MDHA.

By the way, I don't really want to see this project on this site either, I'm just not convinced that old necessarily equals worthy of preservation and protection. These buildings don't really look any different (to my untrained eye) than the warehouses that just got razed for Encore. Preserve and protect the look and feel of the district, as well as the old buildings that have something to offer other than age. Oh, and long live the Nashville honky tonk and Nashville's tourists.

[it's just dave]

Okay, I've just come from downtown. The U.S. vs. Morocco soccer game was about to start so traffic was, to say least, a bit challenging. I escaped the Hume-Fogg graduation march down Broadway.

I took a good look at the row of buildings in question. Okay, the Richards & Richards warehouse is pretty cool, but the others look like concrete blocks with front doors. Actually, Richards does too, but there are large windows. There's really nothing to suggest the ideal we're talking about with complementing the other buildings on Broadway. They don't now. I'm seeing a situation like the Wildhorse did years ago when they built their building on 2nd. Of course, they said they wouldn't tear down the facade, but they did and then rebuilt exactly like it was to be the best of my knowlege. It looks authentic and in the proper place in history and present. I can see this block doing the same thing. I don't see Westin being allowed to compromise the historic nature of Broadway. And don't forget, Broadway's history spans a period of time much, much longer than the honky-tonks, shops and clubs of today. In the 1870's no one had ever heard of the Opry, the Ryman, the Cotton-Eyed Joe souvenir ship. This was a wild and woolly river city with drinking and womanizing and gambling and all that fun stuff in the middle of a bustling commercial district. The Ryman wasn't the original home of the Opry, it was over on Woodland Street and not until 1943 did it move to the old church building.

We have a lot to protect. I personally don't think these buildings are architecturally significant as are the ones surrounding it. I'd rather Westin do its best to create a truly unique smallish property and recreate that section of Broadway so it would complement its surroundings. All I see when I pass "Decades" is a block building next to a souvenir shop that used to host peep shows and porn. I don't understand Trail West, but I guess some people do. I don't live in Texas or Oklahoma, boots aren't part of my wardrobe, but as long as people buy them and dump tax dollars into the city, then who am I to say it's not okay.

When I drove by tonight I "saw" a unique property with loads of travelers coming in and out of the front of the hotel off to destinations unknown. Maybe to the new stadium or one of the many restaurants being built. Maybe they're off to the Symphony, or Tootsies, or an event at the GEC. Maybe just to stroll The District and the new SoBro neighborhoods...perhaps lucky enough to find a comfortable pub just to their liking.

Now, you can buy a salt shaker with a mule on it. Great. I see people, I see street activity, I see increaed tax dollars and in my mind, I see buildings, old or not, that will greatly enhance the street level value of this oft overlooked section of Broadway. A few lofts aren't going to do that. Doing it RIGHT is key, but I don't see the IF they should as a valid question. Nashville is very sensitive to these things. We have hundreds of voices to raise holy hell before the process begins and we're good at that. I say let's give this a chance to show itself to be another cog in this great urban neighborhood we're creating. If they look like they're going to screw it up, let's run 'em out of town before they can even start.

Memphian, I keep seeing little video clips in my head of your vision, and my vision. I'm grinning and can't stop. lol.

[Richard Lawson]

Richard

Do you an educated guess on which hotel flags Tony G is targeting? We had some opinions earlier but I do not remember if you posted in that thread.

All I know is what's not happening there. W is out. Struever Bros. has worked with that one in the past. Not sure who Tony has talked to. If I guessed, that's all it would be is a guess and only an educated one if I actually heard who he was chasing.

[NewTowner]

QuietMike and Dave, perhaps I spoke too hastily. Not living in Nashville at the moment, I could not go and refresh my memory regarding the buildings in question. "Old" definitely does not equal "worthy of affection and respect." It sounds like the buildings in question are not exactly up-to-snuff.

Still, I have a feeling that these structures do possess some merits which are yet unspoken for--and I wish the Best Westin would target a block with nothing to lose. Until I see a good photo or get back to Nashville, though, I'll shut my mouth. I can't honestly (or competently) defend buildings I am not intimately acquainted with.

[brownhound]

I still stand by my original post--the area's junky and the tourists are rednecks. (Just go to any Fan Fair concert if you don't believe me!)

However, I would love to see Lower Broad transform into something much better than it is--refurbished storefronts, apts/condos, first-rate venues for live music, etc. As it now stands, however, most of the buildings--even after the late 80's "renewal" of the area--are in bad shape; the sidewalks are nasty, the storefronts are garish, and the clientele are rough. Just think: Wouldn't this area be much better for everyone--for me, for you, and even for the rednecks--if it were to become something like Austin's live music scene!?

And what about Demonbruen? Would most of you like for it to return to its former "charm" as well? Frankly, I've had enough of two-dollar t-shirts and cheap souvenirs!

I really hate to think that the rest of the world defines Nashville with what I see--and the rest of you don't--on Lower Broad. I believe that most of us are intelligent, have teeth, and don't start every sentence, "You'uns know where that Tootsie's is?"

And Dave: Don't be so hot-to-trot! I have my opinion just as you have yours.

[brownhound]

Dave's comment: Or stay in Green Hills where it's safe. Or wherever you hang your hat.

My reply: I live downtown!

[vinemp]

I have visited Proof on Main a few times, and I had a chance to tour the 21C Hotel before it opened. So, trust me when I tell you that the realization of this project represents the utmost of posh. The food and drink there is no less than absolutely pleasurable, and the d

[it's just dave]

Brown, I'm not so often "hot-to-trot" but your arguments seem so old hat and conveniently stale. We each have our opinions, you're right. I'm sure glad I have mine and not yours.

Your eyes can see what they see, and mine can see what they see. I don't want to trade. Allow me to be blissfully optimistic, and I'll try not to be such a cranky old man.

Besides, didn't you read my words stating that I'm all for this piece of clean-up work on Broadway? You're not from around here are ya, boy?

[Guest]

bhound

I am glad more d'town residents are posting. FWIW I just moved to town last summer so my experiences are limited, but I walk Broadway with my family almost everyday we are in town and I have met many more Europeans (especially Brits) and Japanese than toothless tourists.

Dave's comment: Or stay in Green Hills where it's safe. Or wherever you hang your hat.

My reply: I live downtown!

[brownhound]

I've lived in Nashville for 15 years, and I see what I see: The area's a blight. Perhaps we don't need a Westin, but we need to do something to transform this junk heap into something spectacular.

[nashvol85]

Responding to the talk about honkey tonks, redneck tourists, and the character of Lower Broad:

I sometimes drive through downtown or walk through on my way to a Preds game and see tons of tourists who dress up in cowboy/girl apparel and crowd the streets of Lower Broad, and it makes me laugh. Yeah, there are some pretty tacky and run down buildings spotted throughout the stretch, but the character of the area more than makes up for it. The building where Merchants is (I think its still around) is really cool, and Tootsies has atmosphere like none other. Jack's Barbecue is great, and I couldn't think of a better location for it. Most of the tacky looking and abandoned buildings are on the south side of the street, but they can easily be fixed. None of the buildings should be demolished. None. Remodelled and refined, but not razed.

As far as the Westin (or any other mid-high rise hotel goes) I'm all for it, as long as it does not destroy any of the facades on Lower Broad (it would have to be behind the older buildings). There are several surface parking lots and run down buildings behind broad to make space for it. Will it destroy the character of the area? Did the Nashville Arena? No. Now maybe it shouldn't be ultra modern, but if some time is spent on the design, then it can be made to complement the area rather than detract from it. Think, who wanted SunTrust built right behind the historic Ryman before they saw the design? The building materials and design are essential, but I believe it can be done in a classy way. Maybe putting some more hotels or condos in the Lower Broad area will help fill up some of the vacant buildings on Lower Broad with restaurants and retail again.

I've lived in Nashville for 15 years, and I see what I see: The area's a blight. Perhaps we don't need a Westin, but we need to do something to transform this junk heap into something spectacular.

What do you want done with the historic buildings then? That would be a massive renovation project.

[it's just dave]

brown, you don't seem to really be listening to any of this.

It's a blight, a blight, run for your life. Can't you see that many of us agree with much of what you've said, but is it true you can't see the improvements currently taking shape because you've got blight on your mind?

Maybe I should have dragged you with me at 2 a.m on a Sunday morning in 1979. I'd show you some blight.

Delightfully decadent. You may have just found something in your soul to appreciate the places that exist there, and to appreciate the fact that some of those places exist no more. But to pretend they never did, or wish them erased is spiritually naive.