Taxes are being cut

[Jerseyman4]

NC is the one of the most taxed states in the south as this is something not to be proud of. The state senate is now decreasing some taxes while increasing funding for services in the following areas after it reached its $2 billion dollar surplus. More from the article.

[JDC]

I'm not rich enough for a tax break.

[sax184]

NC is the one of the most taxed states in the south as this is something not to be proud of. The state senate is now decreasing some taxes while increasing funding for services in the following areas after it reached its $2 billion dollar surplus. More from the article.

Umm, that's a statement that doesn't belong in a vaccum. Taxes are the dues we pay to live in a civilized society. Not to mention that if we aspire to be similar to Alabama, South Carolina, Arkansas, and Mississippi in terms of economic activity, educational attainment, transportation infrastructure, only then is the comparison to other states in the South appropriate.

States NC should be looking at for comparison are VA, PA, and others with similar populations and high-tech industries, maybe MA.

I'm not willing to trade NC quality of life for Alabama taxes if AL quality of life comes with it. No way.

[MR-2]

Nothing much is changing in the tax code. They're simply not renewing some temporary taxes, adding some state officials, and eliminating some spending cuts for education.

They'll be back up in a few years; especially if we start accumulating debt.

[Jerseyman4]

Umm, that's a statement that doesn't belong in a vaccum.

Its a introductory statement that i was not taking either side in. So please, dont rebut for the reasons stated in your response when i am simply starting a topic. Putting down other southern states like Alabama is not cool, stating that if higher taxes are not levied, their quality of life is lower. Not only i do not buy that, Virginia is one of the lowest taxed states in the south and they are doing well economically.

[sax184]

Its a introductory statement that i was not taking either side in. So please, dont rebut for the reasons stated in your response when i am simply starting a topic. Putting down other southern states like Alabama is not cool, stating that if higher taxes are not levied, their quality of life is lower. Not only i do not buy that, Virginia is one of the lowest taxed states in the south and they are doing well economically.

You were taking the position that having higher taxes is not something to be proud of, and that it is a negative. I firmly disagree with the proposition that lower taxes are always better because it ignores the question of what you give up in order to get lower tax rates. If we want to quickly take this to an extreme, please compare the US and Swedish tax burden, and before you declare the US system better based on lower taxes, please compare:

-murder/violent crime rate

-infant mortality

-percent of people living in poverty

-oil dependence

-environmental contamination

and numerous other metrics on quality of life and equity. The US has much lower taxes. Take away the amount of money spent on incarceration in the US, and our GDP per capita is not so different. You can then have quite an interesting debate over whether or not low taxes are something to be proud of.

By the way, NC and VA have nearly identical tax burdens (10.0% vs 9.7%) and VA is looking to raise taxes for transportation improvements.

I'm not trying to be cool in talking about Alabama's tax code problems. If you doubt that there are serious challenges to good government in Alabama, please read about their Constitution.

[Jerseyman4]

Nobody likes paying high taxes as I was starting it out as an introductory statement.

[dubone]

I think the current budget plans are very reasonable. They raised the taxes on the highest bracket and the sales tax a few years ago as a temporary measure to get out of a serious hole caused by the economy and some court rulings. They were extended a couple years ago. Now they'll be removing them. But at the same time, they still have new revenue to add to teacher salaries and mental health projects, and a number of others.

I think it is balanced.

Transitman, your points are well taken. But I know from Charlotte that we have very direct competition for business with South Carolina, and our higher taxes cause us to lose a lot of business and jobs to York and Lancaster counties in SC. That isn't a huge problem for now, as those counties need economic growth, too. But in the interest of curbing suburban sprawl, it isn't good that the city of Charlotte will not be able to win or keep businesses due to high state taxes (in addition to the higher urban taxation system).

[sax184]

Transitman, your points are well taken. But I know from Charlotte that we have very direct competition for business with South Carolina, and our higher taxes cause us to lose a lot of business and jobs to York and Lancaster counties in SC. That isn't a huge problem for now, as those counties need economic growth, too. But in the interest of curbing suburban sprawl, it isn't good that the city of Charlotte will not be able to win or keep businesses due to high state taxes (in addition to the higher urban taxation system).

Dubone, your point is well taken also. Charlotte is in a unique position in NC as being a metro area that truly spans state lines. To a certain extent, Charlotte will never be able to end the competition for business with over-the-line counties as long as the state line exists with two different legislatures making two sets of laws.

But while tax differential is a concern, it still doesn't exist in a vacuum. Imagine you own a business in Charlotte, but are thinking about moving to York County, SC. You employ about 20 people, some of them skilled, others not. Your unskilled workers will not move with your business, and only a few of your skilled people will. You also have two kids who are not yet in high school.

You find out that SC's tax burden is 9.7% and NC's is 10.0%. Charlotte also has the 1/2-cent higher sales tax for transportation, and you do a lot of purchasing in Mecklenburg County. If your business has $1,000,000 in sales, you'll pay $97,000 in state and local taxes in SC and $100,000 in NC, maybe more because Charlotte has the added sales tax. So let's say it's $125,000 in NC on $1 million worth of sales.

Regarding your kids, you find out that SC has the highest percentage of 9th grade dropouts in the USA, and is the only state in America where less than 50% of those who start high school finish. NC is not a heck of a lot better, but it is a full 10% higher on the 4-year completion rate in SC, and the Governor is constantly talking about raising teacher salaries to bring in more talented teachers.

You also think that you may need to hire your new unskilled labor from the SC public schools pool of graduates and dropouts.

So yes, lower taxes, no doubt. You're saving almost $30,000 per year. Do you move your business?

[flith]

Umm, that's a statement that doesn't belong in a vaccum. Taxes are the dues we pay to live in a civilized society. Not to mention that if we aspire to be similar to Alabama, South Carolina, Arkansas, and Mississippi in terms of economic activity, educational attainment, transportation infrastructure, only then is the comparison to other states in the South appropriate.

States NC should be looking at for comparison are VA, PA, and others with similar populations and high-tech industries, maybe MA.

I'm not willing to trade NC quality of life for Alabama taxes if AL quality of life comes with it. No way.

Tax rates are not a guage for quality of life. Taxes are the dues we pay for big government.

TN has a tax burdon of 8.3%, which is the 4th lowest burden in the nation for 2005. Link: http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/tax...005/index.html) I now live in NC and I can not figure out what all of NC's money is spent on. In TN I had no property tax on my car or boat, no income tax, lower gasoline taxes, and property taxes were half of what I pay here on a smilar house. TN sales tax is 10% on general goods and 7% on food. Somehow they find the money to maintain and widen the interstates without the threat of toll roads (I-95). TN and GA highways are ranked in the top 10 (pavement quality) while NC is among the worst in the nation. http://www.johnlocke.org/press_releases/di...tory.html?id=59

I think the quility of life in TN and NC are comperable. NC was ranked #1 in the south for economic growth followed by TN at #2. Both states are doing something right. Apparently taxes don't have much to do with it since the burdens are not the same. I don't know how corporate taxes, franchise taxes, entertainment taxes etc compare though. I do have to say that NC public schools, and public Universitys in general are better than TN's. NC has much better funding and accountability.

[JDC]

I bet Virginia does so well because there are so many big hotels just across the Potomac from the capitol. They could charge an arm and a leg for occupancy tax I bet.

[sax184]

I now live in NC and I can not figure out what all of NC's money is spent on.

I think you answered your own question below.

I do have to say that NC public schools, and public Universitys in general are better than TN's. NC has much better funding and accountability.

As for the JLF, John Locke's transportation "analyses" are written by a "professor" at UNCC who does not have peer-reviewed publications on his CV, only hackjobs for the John Locke Foundation. Take the results with a distribution warehouse of salt.

Still, if states with lower taxes were constantly stealing business from states with higher taxes, we'd see greater evidence of that in data. If you break down economic output from GDP to GSP (Gross State Product), NC comes in 19th in the US. SC comes in 43rd. TN is 28th, and is probably the 2nd or 3rd best producer in the south behind NC. VA, while listed at 8, is undoubtedly riding off the coattails of DC in Northern Virginia.

I don't have time, but if someone wants to average the tax burden of the top 10 and bottom 10 states in the GSP list and post the results, that would be interesting.

[Jerseyman4]

TN and GA highways are ranked in the top 10 (pavement quality) while NC is among the worst in the nation. http://www.johnlocke.org/press_releases/di...tory.html?id=59

Ive always felt NC had a good state highway system at the secondary and primary levels. TN does have great roads, i will admit (highway paved shoulders are a big plus) however the secondary system was not up to par like NC's. Down over where you live in Aberdeen, the secondaries are well maintained out there and pretty much allover the Pinecrest High School district.

[flith]

I think you answered your own question below.

As for the JLF, John Locke's transportation "analyses" are written by a "professor" at UNCC who does not have peer-reviewed publications on his CV, only hackjobs for the John Locke Foundation. Take the results with a distribution warehouse of salt.

Still, if states with lower taxes were constantly stealing business from states with higher taxes, we'd see greater evidence of that in data. If you break down economic output from GDP to GSP (Gross State Product), NC comes in 19th in the US. SC comes in 43rd. TN is 28th, and is probably the 2nd or 3rd best producer in the south behind NC. VA, while listed at 8, is undoubtedly riding off the coattails of DC in Northern Virginia.

I don't have time, but if someone wants to average the tax burden of the top 10 and bottom 10 states in the GSP list and post the results, that would be interesting.

I didn't realize that about John Locke. However, I've seen other studies (I can't find a like at this time) one is from the University of Georgia, and the other one I don't know. Those studies look at pavement quality: smoothness, cracks, potholes, patches, traffic counts etc. and rank the states. I know since at least 2000 TN, GA, and FL are in the top 10. I don't remember NC ranking. I do feel that it's results are more realistic than the study mentioned above.

I agree on the secondary roads. NC's are better, however, TN is more than halfway through a program to link all of its county seats to an interstate with 4 lane roads. TDOT also has a policy of repaving all interstate/freeways every 5 years, which I think is wasteful because I've seen roads repaved that did not need it.

[ILoveCallingNCHome]

North Carolina used to be known as "The Good Road State". Anyone else remember that motto?

1949 North Carolina becomes the "Good Road State" due to Governor Kerr Scott

http://www.ceap.wcu.edu/Houghton/MM/IndexP...3/Timeline.html

[Jerseyman4]

^I still believe it is [opinion] and with anything, theres always room to improve.

[appatone]

I do know that one of NC's big "did you know?" facts is that NC has more miles of paved roadway than any other state except for TX. Is that really nessecary, do we need more miles of paved roadway than every other state?

[Jerseyman4]

I do know that one of NC's big "did you know?" facts is that NC has more miles of paved roadway than any other state except for TX. Is that really nessecary, do we need more miles of paved roadway than every other state?

That means they assume responsibility of all freeways, four lane highways, 2 lane primary and secondary rural highways in the state as this is VERY good to have. In my travels of the 82/100 counties, NCDOT is consistent with highway maintience quality. The 15% (roughly) that is not state maintience are the national parks, cities and towns. For the roads that are not paved which i could only speak for Richmond, Moore and Hoke counties, they even DO a GOOD JOB on dirt roads too! Going an average of 20-30mph on a dirt road is perfectly safe which you cannot even speak of in other states!