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sbarbrow

congestion pricing

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i have heard about several cities worldwide that have implemented a cordon/congestion pricing scheme to decrease traffic congestion (and stress levels, pollution, etc) and encourage public transportation... i'm thinking of london and singapore off the top of my head and i have heard positive things from those cities, but i think there are others

i know nyc was thinking about congestion pricing last fall - but i haven't heard much since then.

i was wondering if people here had thoughts/comments/experiences on this idea?

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How does London manage their system? I have a hard time seeing it happen in this country, even New York. Americans are very much in love with their automobiles, and will fight the passage of this. Keep in mind that people get up in arms over putting in new toll booths. I think the way to cut back on the problem is to just raise gas taxes another dollar or so and put all that money into researching alternative energy sources, and building mass transportation infrastructure.

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How does London manage their system?

http://www.vtpi.org/london.pdf

that's one link i found talking about the london system...

i hear you about americans and their cars. in london, the money raised went into the transit system to improve the public transportation but coming from boston - i think the mbta/commuter rail would need a lot more funding to be a viable alternative in the views of many commuters even if a pricing system were in place (not talking about the mass pike but a cordon system).

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I have never heard of this before, very interesting idea, makes a lot of sense.

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The idea works and makes sense when you place it in cities that have mass transit in NYC and DC during the weekdays. It should not be tried in places like Atlanta or Charlotte where mass transit is limited.

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Where you have a shortage of space, then it has a possibility of woring. Simply because there is no alternative to going into the city. That doesn't mean that it is economically successful - sure it may cut down on cars, but it also means that people simply choose not to go into the city unless they have to, and put more of their budget to that then they do on things in the city.

In the US, there is a much bigger problem. Making it harder for people to get into the city simply makes people avoid the city. Thus, sprawl. Ultimately sprawl is a result of ease of access. Make it harder/costlier to go somewhere dense, then they will simply go somewhere not as dense.

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Congestion pricing US metro areas would kill core cities which are trying to revive from the flight into the suburbs. Why? Its simple. Why should I drive into the city, pay the congestion price and pay for parking to get the things I need when I can drive to a big box retailer in the 'burbs on a free road, and park at the store for free? This would only amplify urban sprawl.

Here's a good idea to stop congestion, kill uban sprawl, and save the envionment in the US. Let gas prices go as high they so please, say up to $10.00 a gallon or more. $10.00 a gallon times a twenty gallon fuel tank in that big SUV equals $200 to fill 'er up. Multiply that by 4 taking into account that one fills the gas tank once a week. That's $800 a month just to keep the vehicle fueled. To me, when you add that to the car loan payment and insurance and maintanance costs, you would have a serious factor to intice people to stop driving, move back into the core cities and demand elected officals to invest funding into building mass transit options. With people back into the core cities Suberbia and the sprawl that came with it would revert back to woods and wildlife.

Problem Solved! :thumbsup:

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Problem with that is, it hurts folks like me who have to drive 4x4's.

We just escaped the city anyway. Urban life isn't for everybody, you know.

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Problem with that is, it hurts folks like me who have to drive 4x4's.

We just escaped the city anyway. Urban life isn't for everybody, you know.

nevermind

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i guess with a huge city like new york city - where people are going to want to head in regardless - it might push people to use mass transit rather than drive... or figure out a way to drive at off-peak hours...

but i certainly agree that it might... umm... suburbify (ahh making up words...:)) some cities

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Congestion pricing US metro areas would kill core cities which are trying to revive from the flight into the suburbs. Why? Its simple. Why should I drive into the city, pay the congestion price and pay for parking to get the things I need when I can drive to a big box retailer in the 'burbs on a free road, and park at the store for free? This would only amplify urban sprawl.

Here's a good idea to stop congestion, kill uban sprawl, and save the envionment in the US. Let gas prices go as high they so please, say up to $10.00 a gallon or more. $10.00 a gallon times a twenty gallon fuel tank in that big SUV equals $200 to fill 'er up. Multiply that by 4 taking into account that one fills the gas tank once a week. That's $800 a month just to keep the vehicle fueled. To me, when you add that to the car loan payment and insurance and maintanance costs, you would have a serious factor to intice people to stop driving, move back into the core cities and demand elected officals to invest funding into building mass transit options. With people back into the core cities Suberbia and the sprawl that came with it would revert back to woods and wildlife.

Problem Solved! :thumbsup:

:sick:

At $10 a gallon, you will see a nation crumble to the ground

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:sick:

At $10 a gallon, you will see a nation crumble to the ground

Only if that nation's people remain too spoiled to get out of their cars. Maybe, if our nation is to survive, we need to grind to a halt in order to get things where they need to be.

Everyone needs to drop the attitude that we drive because we have to.

We choose to drive. As a populace, we won't even compromise as little as to drive smaller cars.

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Only if that nation's people remain too spoiled to get out of their cars. Maybe, if our nation is to survive, we need to grind to a halt in order to get things where they need to be.

Well from the point we're at now, it would collapse and there's no real way around it. People work in sprawling developments dotted across the landscape, and live in sprawling low density suburbs. A lot of areas in this country were not built for mass-transit, and it would not be easy to implement a system.

Gradual increases to an eventual high of maybe a dollar or two higher than what gas taxes are now, with the money going towards alternative energy and mass transit, coupled with tolls on highways is the best way to do it as I see it.

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Gradual increases to an eventual high of maybe a dollar or two higher than what gas taxes are now, with the money going towards alternative energy and mass transit, coupled with tolls on highways is the best way to do it as I see it.

Rather have my 2.83 a gallon regular gas go to alt energy and mass transit than those greedy OPEC nations and the Oil Companies.

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Rather have my 2.83 a gallon regular gas go to alt energy and mass transit than those greedy OPEC nations and the Oil Companies.

There was a figure somewhere that the government gets a muchy higher profit (taxes) already than the oil companies.

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