Bird Flu now human-to-human?!

[PghUSA]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=100...6CFE&refer=asia

Broke a few days ago, they are still trying to verify this but if it is true we could be watching the birth of the next truly global pandemic. Man I hate typing that, I hope on this one I am very very wrong.

[suburban george3]

While the developments in Asia are very concerning with the progress of this disease, we don't need to raise the alarms and all go into hiding just yet. The people infected in this cell were family members who were in extreme close contact to the originally infected during their care. This is not considered "casual contact" between victims. When it gets scary is when you start spreading it by walking down the street. That is not the case yet.

Also, if this mutates to that form, it most likely will be in Asia first which will give us here in the US more than likely a few weeks warning.

I really hope it doesn't get as bad as they are planning for. I can't imagine whole cities quarantined by armed troops not letting anyone in or out.

[monsoon]

I wonder why stuff like this frightens people when the spectre of global warming doesn't seem to even be on the radar screen.

[damus]

I wonder why stuff like this frightens people when the spectre of global warming doesn't seem to even be on the radar screen.

The world has gone through warmer periods in the past and survived. We're not at a dangerous (dangerous as in no more living on Earth, not the loss of coastal cities) point yet. A lot of people on the right actually think global warming will be a good thing for the environment, more vegetation in the arctic (i dont know what they say about expanding deserts).

I'm not going to be too worried about the bird flu until something happens, even if that means by then it's too late. What can I do? Didn't we flip out 10 years ago over Ebola?

[monsoon]

A lot of people on the right also don't believe in mass transit, alternative energy, banning asault weapons, etc etc. Fortunately the majority of people in the world don't think this way. By the time the water is flooding the streets of NYC it will be too late to do anything about it.

[damus]

A lot of people on the right also don't believe in mass transit, alternative energy, banning asault weapons, etc etc. Fortunately the majority of people in the world don't think this way. By the time the water is flooding the streets of NYC it will be too late to do anything about it.

Yeah ... I agree with everything you say except for the assault weapons ban (I oppose it, and it's one reason why I'd never vote Democrat, and also a reason I hate Bush) and that the majority of the world doesn't think this way. If you look towards China and India, they (esp. china) seem to be looking to emulate our lifestyle and are going to continue to burn more and more oil. Sure China has better mass transit, but as more Chinese become wealthy they'll be driving more cars. Parts of the Chinese countryside are currently being redeveloped into getaways for the well-to-do. I honestly believe that the only reason there is higher ridership in Europe is because of the price of gas is so much higher there, the physical layout of the older cities, the availability of quality transit systems, and (to a lesser extent) they don't make quite as much money as we do to pay for our cars. They're not better than us, they just have a different situation and a different way of governing.

[monsoon]

I think that is the first time that I have heard a justification for our unsustainable lifestyle because the Chinese commies are doing it too. Gasoline is highpriced in Europe because the people there have chosen to tax it to those prices to encourage people to use other forms of transit. One begats the other. Also last time I looked, the majority of European countries are democracies like the USA.

[suburban george3]

I wonder why stuff like this frightens people when the spectre of global warming doesn't seem to even be on the radar screen.

People are probably more scared of "bird-flu pandemics" than the spectre of global warming because everyone's dealt with illness and death. As real as global warming is, most people can't "wake up" and realize how severe it already is or they are just apathetic about it.

Just to add another twist to the global warming "debate", warming can also cause the rise of diseases we haven't dealt with in the past. So while the "bird-flu" might be nothing at all, some dormant disease could be re-awakened by global warming that could turn into our "true" pandemic.

[dimebag1980]

While the developments in Asia are very concerning with the progress of this disease, we don't need to raise the alarms and all go into hiding just yet. The people infected in this cell were family members who were in extreme close contact to the originally infected during their care. This is not considered "casual contact" between victims. When it gets scary is when you start spreading it by walking down the street. That is not the case yet.

Also, if this mutates to that form, it most likely will be in Asia first which will give us here in the US more than likely a few weeks warning.

I'm with you on this... it's simply too early for us to start acting crazy about it. Is it worth watching? Most certainly. But is it worth turning into Chicken Little over? Not quite... not yet anyway.

I can't imagine whole cities quarantined by armed troops not letting anyone in or out.

New Orleans, 2005, but on an even greater level of security.

[damus]

I think that is the first time that I have heard a justification for our unsustainable lifestyle because the Chinese commies are doing it too. Gasoline is highpriced in Europe because the people there have chosen to tax it to those prices to encourage people to use other forms of transit. One begats the other. Also last time I looked, the majority of European countries are democracies like the USA.

They are not like the USA. They are similar, but we are still different. We have a history of small-government low tax inclinations, we were founded upon them. Most other developed countries have a "big government knows best" mentality. In France, students were protesting laws that made it easier to fire new employees, thus reducing the risk of hiring a bad egg. Here, people are bitter about the nature of business but recognize that this is the nature of business and that's how the business world works. Whether you like him or not, you could not have a guy like Trump be such a big celebrity in some other countries.

As a percentage of GDP, isn't our government smaller than most other developed countries despite the high military budget? The way leaders are elected through runoffs can often put more "extreme" people against one another for the general public to choose from. I think it's because of this runoff type system that third parties can emerge; you can vote your heart in the first election, then in the 2nd you vote for whomever suits you the best. That is why I think the greens actually have influence in other countries. Wasn't a far right winger on the ballot not too far back in France?

BTW... I was not trying to justify our wasteful lifestyle by saying "the Chinese do it, too". I was pointing out that the rest of the world does not think the way we'd like them to think in terms of the environment. We're the richest country in the world, and when I chatted with a big union guy who is going to be overseeing the development of one of the last undeveloped corridors in the Megalopolis into a Disneyesque mess, he said "when you get older you'll realize that money is everything in life". There's a mindset that made America #1, but it's a flawed mindset if most people think the way that union guy does.

[monsoon]

I would rather have the government in control of my well being instead of the corporations as at least I have a say in what happens. I think you will find the average European enjoys a better lifestyle than the average person does in the USA. The tax argument is meaningless when you instead have to spend your money on expensive automobile travel, expensive health care, and other things that Europeans have as part of their social programs. And when you add up all the taxes that are paid by working Americans you will find the tax burden is not that different.

[PghUSA]

^^Only problem with the government in control of your well being is that usually government (Amtrak, Postal Service, Public Schools) are trapped by the knowledge wether they compete or not, wether they succeed or fail their "funding" will be there, thus the all-to-often "warehousing" of you and me in many government assisted programs. There is no competition because their pay isn't based on what a FedEx or Airline or computer programmer pay is based on, preformance and how glad the customer is.

One other extremely SCARY thing about government services is if you ever are treated unfairly by a big corporation you can sue them out of business, have you ever, ever heard of someone winning a case against the feds (less discrimination cases)? Sure we have a voice on voting for the leaders, but all you have to do is buy a few $$s of stock in a company and you have the same voice electing the leaders of that corporation at the annual stockholders meeting. Suing a company is no walk in the park but people win huge against corporations every year, to fight the government (the same government that AT&T had to fight from the 1960's to the mid 1980's, the same one that Microsoft for all it's power, is STILL fighting from the mid 1990's to today) is an act of self sacrafice over decades, and many many many bank accounts.

If you want to "vote" for your leaders buy 1 share of your HMO corporation and vote away, at least if those guys treat the wrong ailment you can sue and win in something shorter then a century. JMHO interested in other views.

~~

Back to the bird flu, I agree it isn't time to start a panic, just carefully watching this, good info that they were all related, hopefully we can see science contain this fast. My heart goes out to the people around there though, I can only imagine some of the choas that is sprouting from this.

[Jerseyman4]

Ocean temperatures are already in the low 60s in north coastal New Jersey as this is a concern. In recent years, the water temps end up making near 75 degrees by Labor Day which is a recipe for disaster god forbid a hurricane were to strike the NYC metro area. While 80 degrees is the minimum that a hurricane can sustain itself, 72-75 degrees is a pretty scary number by September 10th. Hurricanes sometimes increase surface water temperatures as it moves northward but not by great lengths as this was the case with Hurricane Grace aka the perfect storm .

[damus]

The forecasters are saying conditions are ripe for a hurricane to hit the northeast this year... some give it a 10% chance. I think it was the accuweather guy who said that he'd be surprised if a hurricane didn't hit the northeast in the next few years. We haven't been hit by a hurricane of any significance since I think the mid 50s... when we do get a big one (cat 3 or up) people will be shocked that we're so succeptable.

[Cotuit]

We haven't been hit by a hurricane of any significance since I think the mid 50s... when we do get a big one (cat 3 or up) people will be shocked that we're so succeptable.

I don't know where you were, but Bob was pretty damn significant on the Cape in 1991. It was one of the 10 costliest US hurricanes, before the '04 season shattered the record books. And the name Bob was retired due to the storm's impact and severity.

[damus]

I don't know where you were, but Bob was pretty damn significant on the Cape in 1991. It was one of the 10 costliest US hurricanes, before the '04 season shattered the record books. And the name Bob was retired due to the storm's impact and severity.

I was in CT, and as an 8 year old I managed to sneak outside a few times and remained pretty much unscathed (though kinda lucky considering a 100 mph gust was recorded in Wethersfield). We got a lot of rain, hardly any wind, and still lost power for the weekend. Gloria was a real hurricane but not a major hurricane that hit where I live. There was damage around here from that. Didn't bob only hit as a cat-2? If Bob did that much damage to modern day New England as a Category 2 imagine what a strong 3 or weak 4 would do... 1938 had wind gusts of 180 mph, and according to the local kook, err historian, it didn't go higher because the high wind speeds broke the wind gauge.

[Cotuit]

Didn't bob only hit as a cat-2?

Yes, Bob was only a 2 when it made landfall. On the Cape, Gloria was the dud, and Bob was the big one. As always with hurricanes, the storm surge was the big problem.

I heard a thing on the news last night that was talking about how people still don't really understand hurricanes, they think of landfall and category. As seen on the Cape, a Category 2 can be devastating, just because it's a 1 or 2 doesn't mean you're getting off easy (even a tropical storm can be bad). And landfall is deceptive, because of the surge to the east side of the storm.

And here in New England, with Buzzards Bay and Narragansett Bay facing south, we have amplified storm surge to worry about.

[PghUSA]

Love how birdflu morphs into global warming we should really just rename this the "what will kill us first" thread.

[runawayjim]

Love how birdflu morphs into global warming we should really just rename this the "what will kill us first" thread.

i personally don't believe either to be the threat that people make it out to be

[PghUSA]

Birdflu I think is more a threat, since there is indisputable evidence of it and that there will not be enough time (as is the case with warming) to reverse it or protect against it. Warming could take decades and if true is very very dangerous but Birdflu could literally be a highly contagious global pandemic within days under the worst circumstances.

[dimebag1980]

A lot of people on the right also don't believe in mass transit, alternative energy, banning asault weapons, etc etc. Fortunately the majority of people in the world don't think this way. By the time the water is flooding the streets of NYC it will be too late to do anything about it.

For the record: I'm a conservative Republican. I am not an extremist. I hate Rush Limbaugh with a passion, but I think Sean Hannity is decent. I am, however, entirely opposed to banning "assault weapons," or any guns for that matter. Banning guns is not the answer to our problems, and neither is banning any specific type of gun. No matter what is ever done, these "assault weapons," or automatic weapons as those of us who love guns call them, will always be around. They will be sold on the black market just as was alcohol during Prohibition. The criminals will have them and the law-abiding citizens will be outgunned. That doesn't sound like a fair deal to me. Actually that sounds, to me, just as bad as an intruder suing the gun-bearing homeowner who shot him for trespassing.

I don't vote strictly along party lines; I vote for the person I feel would make a decent leader. I voted for Bush the first time. Not completely satisfied with him after his first four years, but certain I would never vote for a quack like John Kerry, I reluctantly voted for Bush again. While I still believe he was a better choice than John Kerry, I'm even more at odds with Bush over many policies, including his policies on "guest workers." Illegal aliens are illegal aliens regardless of how they're branded and they do not belong here without proper citizenship. I am not at odds with him over Iraq, because I'm 100% in favor of what we're doing over there (as are the vast majority of my friends in the military, for the record.) I support our military fully, so therefore I support the military's Commander in Chief fully when it comes to war. If Bush could run for another term would I vote for him? If his opponent were Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Kerry, or someone else with similar viewpoints, yes I most certainly would. In many cases, choosing a President comes down to voting for the lesser of the two evils.

I do believe in mass transit and I do believe in alternative energy sources. Why would "a lot of people on the right" not believe in these issues, and what does it matter anyway? I could very easily say that a lot of people on the left don't believe in gay marriage. What does it really matter? While it might or might not be true, does such a statement really matter? I highly doubt that most people on the right are against mass transit and alternative energy sources, so why point out that "a lot" of them are? All you're doing by making statements like that is promoting your own agenda. There is no other reason for it. To be completely honest with you, the only people on the right who I feel probably are against such things would be people with a vested interest in the oil industry. And of all the people I know on the right, an overwhelming majority of them have absolutely nothing to do with the oil industry. The mere act of linking the oil industry to the conservative right is nothing more than a smear campaign, launched by the liberal left, that has gotten out of control. It just so happens that many people involved in the oil industry tend to vote Republican, so all of a sudden the entire party was erroneously linked to this industry.

I've gotten a bit long-winded on this subject, but I just get sick and tired of propaganda and spin for personal or political gain. It is absolutely pointless. What you posted was nothing more than propaganda, and it was based on your own personal (and obvious) opinion that your viewpoints are superior to all others. It truly does take all kinds to make this world work. Differing viewpoints work as a natural system of checks and balances.

[PghUSA]

I think we are getting far afield here from Avian flu.

To answer your point SBC, as a conservative myself, but one that believes in total energy independence (and is living by that mantra 90% of the time), as well as health care reform, I only think Metro was stating the obvious. I do think that we will have much more time to prepare then when "the water is coming over NYC", but most in the GOP leadership dismiss this idea out of hand. At least consider the implications.

The GOP's biggest weakness right now is becoming too entrenched and too out of touch with middle America. I think much has changed since 1994 and 2000 with the values of those that voted Republican, this while the GOP leadership has gotten further and further away from the principals that won them office in the mid to late 90's and 2000.

Birdflu might very well be the test of this system and might do for universal healthcare what the Great Depression did for the Federal Reserve, Social Security, Medicare and bank reform. The GOP was given a full mandate by the people, I'd love to see them do something Washingtonian with it, selfless leadership that enriches the nation not their powerbase. As bad as some in the GOP are growing in thier power addictions, the party in my mind is better then the Dems, if they don't shape up though the Democrats will get their chance very soon to prove themselves.

[dimebag1980]

I think we are getting far afield here from Avian flu.

To answer your point SBC, as a conservative myself, but one that believes in total energy independence (and is living by that mantra 90% of the time), as well as health care reform, I only think Metro was stating the obvious. I do think that we will have much more time to prepare then when "the water is coming over NYC", but most in the GOP leadership dismiss this idea out of hand. At least consider the implications.

The GOP's biggest weakness right now is becoming too entrenched and too out of touch with middle America. I think much has changed since 1994 and 2000 with the values of those that voted Republican, this while the GOP leadership has gotten further and further away from the principals that won them office in the mid to late 90's and 2000.

Birdflu might very well be the test of this system and might do for universal healthcare what the Great Depression did for the Federal Reserve, Social Security, Medicare and bank reform. The GOP was given a full mandate by the people, I'd love to see them do something Washingtonian with it, selfless leadership that enriches the nation not their powerbase. As bad as some in the GOP are growing in thier power addictions, the party in my mind is better then the Dems, if they don't shape up though the Democrats will get their chance very soon to prove themselves.

By the end of my post I realized I'd gone far beyond what he posted so I finally cut myself off there. I get on my soapbox and can't shut up sometimes, but I think we're all guilty of that sometimes.

I've often thought to myself that my party is going astray. Lucky for me, I don't vote along party lines specifically. I keep an open mind, and if a Democrat who proves himself a worthy candidate comes along, he will get my vote. The values of the parties do change over time, and the parties change along with them.

Anyway, I really don't know what to think of the Bird Flu subject yet. On one hand I'm afraid we're going overboard in our concerns, but on the other hand I know it's better to be prepared.

[monsoon]

The reason it's important that the "right" doesn't believe in mass transit is because if you are a supporter of mass transit, then you must know the "right" which controls the government these days has essentially cut transit funding to $0 for new systems. So every city in the USA that wants to install a transit system will have to wait for years and years before these systems ever see the light of day. Keep in mind the people that live in these cities pay huge amounts of federal taxes every year and it becomes a question of priorities on where this tax money gets spent. The "right" doesn't believe in it, so no new systems are being built. The Republican Party has become obsessed with idealolgy these days over solving the nations problems and that is the idealolgy is tearing this country apart. That idealolgy includes supporting big oil and believeing that mass transit is "social engineering".

Not only do we have the issue of Avian Flu, which could be a big problem, but we have Iraq coming apart at the seems, energy prices going up with no national program to develop an effective alternative to oil, no control of our borders, illegal aliens coming in each day, inflation coming back, and a horrendous national deficit that our grandchildren will be paying interest on. Yet what is the senate going to debate over the next 3 weeks? Gay Marriage Amendment and Flag Burning (yet again) Its a disgrace the idealogs that control the Republican agenda think the people's time should be wasted on this nonsense, and we have very serious problems not being addressed. The American government has become the laughing stock of the rest of the world and behind the scenes the world is taking every advantage of it.

[damus]

The American government has become the laughing stock of the rest of the world and behind the scenes the world is taking every advantage of it.

Well... I agree with you that our government hasn't been too generous with mass-transit, but how are we the laughinstock? We've seen 9/11, Katrina, an expensive war, and we're still by far the strongest country in the world.