New acquisition by Belk

[mallguy]

The Belk store at Riverchase Galleria was downgraded big time compared to the Proffitts that was located there before the acquistion.

Ugh- certainly not doubting what you're saying, but I thought Proffitt's was kind of like a downscale Hecht's (which is already downscale- so Proffitt's was very low-end for a regular department store) and if it got downgraded when Belk's bought it, how horrid.

[turbocraig]

I know all this, but no one twisted SouthTrust's arm to sell, regardless of who approached whom. If it weren't Wachovia, it'd have been a bigger bank based in another city. I take no satisfaction in anyone losing their job, or falling on hard times, but sadly, more consolidation will pick off the regional banks left in the southeast. It's far from over. You're actually seeing the free market at work. Government regulation is what kept the smaller banks from being eaten alive before the 90's.

As for Belk/Parisian, does anyone know for sure if they'll do away with the Parisian name altogether? I've never been in one myself, but if the store is more luxe than your typical Belk, why could they not operate it as a subsidiary appealing to a slightly different demographic?

[kayman]

Ugh- certainly not doubting what you're saying, but I thought Proffitt's was kind of like a downscale Hecht's (which is already downscale- so Proffitt's was very low-end for a regular department store) and if it got downgraded when Belk's bought it, how horrid.

It's beyond horrid, it's a joke. General Properties did better off letting cancelling the lease after the acquistion. It's a 3-level 200,000 sq. ft building that has gone to waste. I would rather had marketed it to Nordstrom, Neiman-Marcus (both of which has been begging to located in B'ham), or even Dillard's.

[kayman]

I know all this, but no one twisted SouthTrust's arm to sell, regardless of who approached whom. If it weren't Wachovia, it'd have been a bigger bank based in another city. I take no satisfaction in anyone losing their job, or falling on hard times, but sadly, more consolidation will pick off the regional banks left in the southeast. It's far from over. You're actually seeing the free market at work. Government regulation is what kept the smaller banks from being eaten alive before the 90's.

Oh, SouthTrust had an outgoing CEO/founder that wanted to get out of the banking biz period, and didn't feel like he wanted to name a new one to replace himself. So he just sold the bank to Wachovia to solve the problem.

Actually, that's deregulation and monopolization at its best. Just remember the 1920's and you'll get the picture. Believe if regulation goes back into affect (which will likely happen post-Bush), you will see a lot of corporations get broken up ala-Ma Bell in the 80's or Monopoly-breakers of late 1920's. Free market is competition not homogenity.

As for Belk/Parisian, does anyone know for sure if they'll do away with the Parisian name altogether? I've never been in one myself, but if the store is more luxe than your typical Belk, why could they not operate it as a subsidiary appealing to a slightly different demographic?

You know just like I know that Belk is just going to change the name to Belk and lower the bar of quality of mechandise.

[gs3]

Ugh- certainly not doubting what you're saying, but I thought Proffitt's was kind of like a downscale Hecht's (which is already downscale- so Proffitt's was very low-end for a regular department store) and if it got downgraded when Belk's bought it, how horrid.

Proffitt's (as a total chain) was on par with Hecht's, Belk, etc. A mid-range department store. It depended greatly on the market and size of store. The Birmingham Galleria store was a test store for them so they did so unique things....large format plasma screen monitors down aisles that played fashion shows.....a local culinary school had a branch with a cafe in the store.....Club Libby Lu for "tweens".....a community room......a golf putting green in the mens department....etc. That said, while they tested many new "interactive" concepts, the merchandise was largely unchanged from any other Proffitt's location.

[mallguy]

I don't see Belk running Parisian as a separate nameplate. Belk at least now seems to be a chain like Dillard's that runs all of its stores under one name.

Too bad since I think it would be a bad business decision to ditch the Parisian nameplate. I don't even see why Saks wants to sell the chain. Parisian's sales are increasing more rapidly than Saks Fifth Avenue's are, and I'd think that Parisian would be an excellent co-anchor for Saks in upscale malls, especially with Lord & Taylor having vanished in large parts of the US.

[kayman]

I don't see Belk running Parisian as a separate nameplate. Belk at least now seems to be a chain like Dillard's that runs all of its stores under one name.

Too bad since I think it would be a bad business decision to ditch the Parisian nameplate. I don't even see why Saks wants to sell the chain. Parisian's sales are increasing more rapidly than Saks Fifth Avenue's are, and I'd think that Parisian would be an excellent co-anchor for Saks in upscale malls, especially with Lord & Taylor having vanished in large parts of the US.

Saks Incorporated is trying to save a sinking ship of Saks Fifth Avenue by ridding themselves of a true asset Parisian. I still have a feeling that the Parisian acquistion isn't a done deal b/c I'm still hearing the former CEOs of McRae's and Parisian are still in serious talks with them.

[StevenRocks]

Gosh, I go away for a few days and all hell breaks loose.

Saks Incorporated is trying to save a sinking ship of Saks Fifth Avenue by ridding themselves of a true asset Parisian.

I'm all for justified provincialism, but COME ON! You're saying that Saks is doing themselves a disservice by dumping a name with little resonance outside Alabama and parts of the Midwest and trying to save one of the world's best known luxury nameplates? I don't know what y'all are smoking in the 'Ham, but give me some

Seriously, the smart money's on Saks in the long run if they can get it together again.

I don't see Belk running Parisian as a separate nameplate. Belk at least now seems to be a chain like Dillard's that runs all of its stores under one name.

Belk will probably get the less desirable Parisian stores if a sale agreement is reached. The marquee stores will go to another retailer. You can pretty much bank on Parisian Riverchase and The Summit going to a more upscale competitor.

Proffitt's was kind of like a downscale Hecht's (which is already downscale- so Proffitt's was very low-end for a regular department store) and if it got downgraded when Belk's bought it...

One way that all of these stores were alike is that they catered to a solidly middle-class customer. I have my compliments and complaints about all of them, but searching for upscale nirvana in small town, middle class department stores is like looking for McDonald's to make your hamburger medium-rare with gruyere on top.

[kayman]

Gosh, I go away for a few days and all hell breaks loose.

I'm all for justified provincialism, but COME ON! You're saying that Saks is doing themselves a disservice by dumping a name with little resonance outside Alabama and parts of the Midwest and trying to save one of the world's best known luxury nameplates? I don't know what y'all are smoking in the 'Ham, but give me some

Seriously, the smart money's on Saks in the long run if they can get it together again.

Belk will probably get the less desirable Parisian stores if a sale agreement is reached. The marquee stores will go to another retailer. You can pretty much bank on Parisian Riverchase and The Summit going to a more upscale competitor.

One way that all of these stores were alike is that they catered to a solidly middle-class customer. I have my compliments and complaints about all of them, but searching for upscale nirvana in small town, middle class department stores is like looking for McDonald's to make your hamburger medium-rare with gruyere on top.

One the reasons why Parisian has little resonance outside of The South (because it is has 5 or 6 locations in Metro Atlanta) and the Midwest is because Saks Incorporated purchased it in the middle of its expansion back in the 1990's. Also you have to take into consideration that Saks had almost 10 different nameplates at that time also, but Parisian was still the most profitable of them all. It's kind of like shooting yourself in the foot with that ideology of little resonance outside a certain region. General common sense if it ain't broke then don't fix it and the same goes with profitablity. Just imagine if Federated sold Bloomingdale's because it still has little resonance outside of the Northeast and just because those 1 or 2 Bloomingdale's in like Atlanta and Miami doesn't really count. We all know that it was actually Macy's that was the one that was costing Federated money not its regional brands like Lazarus/Rich's/Goldsmiths/Burdines/Bon Maur, but they decided to keep it but it's still isn't making them any real money.

[StevenRocks]

I hate to question some of your logic on this, but I feel like I have to.

For one thing, Saks Incorporated is the former Proffitt's, Inc. which had no relationship to Saks Fifth Avenue until 1998. Proffitt's took the Saks name because it was the more prestigious and recognizable nameplate.

Please note that even though Proffitt's owned the Parisian name for at least a year longer, they chose not to rebrand the entire company as Parisian, because the name means nothing outside of its connection to that specific set of stores to the great majority of the country.

When you think about it, the kind of nationwide expansion you're suggesting for Parisian was the same one Lord & Taylor took about the same time. You should be familiar with what happened, but if you aren't, let's just say that it wasn't pretty. Overexpansion cost Lord & Taylor its credibility, and there's a good chance there won't be a Lord & Taylor anywhere in five years.

If you're going to challenge my assertion about Parisian, please pick a store other than Bloomingdale's. Bloomingdale's hasn't been a solely Northeastern chain in decades. They reached a peak of cultural conciousness a generation ago, but they are most assuredly an internationally recognized and upscale brand, with few new market failures (the only notable one was Dallas, but that had a lot to do with the Allied-Federated merger and the economy).

None of Federated's divisions was dragging down profitablity except Stern's, which was killed off several years ago. Further, Macy's was decided on as the national brand because people recognized the name and were happy enough with it to want to shop there. Further still, Bon Maur does not exist.

[gs3]

/Bon Maur

It's Bon Marche "the good market", which was Federateds Northwest division. Was refered to as The Bon. Now has the Macy's nameplate and home to the Northwest division offices.

OR, Von Maur. Based in Iowa and throughout the midwest. Specialty department store along the lines of Parisian, the old Jacobson's, etc. Independently owned.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Seriously, the smart money's on Saks in the long run if they can get it together again.

You might be able to read this: http://wwd.com/article/print/106714 Sometimes non-subscribers can see the printable page. Or you can do a site search on WWD.com for Saks (view the cache copy).

[DigitalSky]

One the reasons why Parisian has little resonance outside of The South (because it is has 5 or 6 locations in Metro Atlanta) and the Midwest is because Saks Incorporated purchased it in the middle of its expansion back in the 1990's. Also you have to take into consideration that Saks had almost 10 different nameplates at that time also, but Parisian was still the most profitable of them all. It's kind of like shooting yourself in the foot with that ideology of little resonance outside a certain region. General common sense if it ain't broke then don't fix it and the same goes with profitablity. Just imagine if Federated sold Bloomingdale's because it still has little resonance outside of the Northeast and just because those 1 or 2 Bloomingdale's in like Atlanta and Miami doesn't really count. We all know that it was actually Macy's that was the one that was costing Federated money not its regional brands like Lazarus/Rich's/Goldsmiths/Burdines/Bon Maur, but they decided to keep it but it's still isn't making them any real money.

Van Maur.

Not to be confused with the Bon Marche, as gsupstate mentioned, or Bon-Ton

[mallguy]

deleted

[rockhilljames]

Damn! This certainly has taken on a life of it's own.

Let me make a few comments. First off, Belk's store quality can vary greatly depending upon where the store is located. If you went in the Belk in Rock Hill vs the Belk in South Park you would think you were in two separate stores, so don't be so sure Belk would be a step down in quality. Second, I sure as hell haven't been in a Parisian that I thought was any different than Belk, Dillard's, Hecth's, etc. They all seem more or less the same to me.

Don't blame Belk or Charlotte, blame Sak's money-losing ass for having to sell them off. Belk isn't going to buy the whole Parisian's name, just a few store locations. Yes, they will rebrand them.

That is IF they buy them, which isn't settled yet.

Also, I've been to most of the shopping centers in the Ham that you speak of. If you think they're anything more upscale than what most cities have, you haven't traveled much. They're pretty much the same lifestyle retail clusters that you can find in every city.

[kayman]

Damn! This certainly has taken on a life of it's own.

Let me make a few comments. First off, Belk's store quality can vary greatly depending upon where the store is located. If you went in the Belk in Rock Hill vs the Belk in South Park you would think you were in two separate stores, so don't be so sure Belk would be a step down in quality. Second, I sure as hell haven't been in a Parisian that I thought was any different than Belk, Dillard's, Hecth's, etc. They all seem more or less the same to me.

Don't blame Belk or Charlotte, blame Sak's money-losing ass for having to sell them off. Belk isn't going to buy the whole Parisian's name, just a few store locations. Yes, they will rebrand them.

That is IF they buy them, which isn't settled yet.

Also, I've been to most of the shopping centers in the Ham that you speak of. If you think they're anything more upscale than what most cities have, you haven't traveled much. They're pretty much the same lifestyle retail clusters that you can find in every city.

And how long ago were you at this Birmingham area malls and which ones have you visited specifically? Also I have traveled around a lot, thank you, so I know what is and isn't upscale. Last time I remember Summit Birmingham is at the same level as SouthPark. The only difference is SouthPark is enclosed and has more department stores.

[StevenRocks]

You might be able to read this: http://wwd.com/article/print/106714 Sometimes non-subscribers can see the printable page. Or you can do a site search on WWD.com for Saks (view the cache copy).

I couldn't see the whole article, but I'm not scared. Those investment vultures think every space can make more money in their hands.

[Miesian Corners]

And how long ago were you at this Birmingham area malls and which ones have you visited specifically? Also I have traveled around a lot, thank you, so I know what is and isn't upscale. Last time I remember Summit Birmingham is at the same level as SouthPark. The only difference is SouthPark is enclosed and has more department stores.

I'm not going to get in a p*ssing match here, but you are mistaken that Summit is the same as SP. While Summit is a very nice upscale lifestyle center in a great Southern city (I'm a big fan of the 'Ham and I LOVE the Vulcan statue), it does not compare to SouthPark in Charlotte. SP has Nieman Marcus, Lacoste, Burberry, Tiffany, Louis Vuitton, Apple, St John, Polo Ralph Lauren, Kate Spade, Hermes, and Max Azaria. More than likely, Cartier and Gucci will soon announce their openings here as well. Apples and oranges.

[rockhilljames]

And how long ago were you at this Birmingham area malls and which ones have you visited specifically? Also I have traveled around a lot, thank you, so I know what is and isn't upscale. Last time I remember Summit Birmingham is at the same level as SouthPark. The only difference is SouthPark is enclosed and has more department stores.

Do not take offense at my statement. Note that I said "..any more upscale.." than anything other cities have. No more, no less. I was in Birmingham last fall and went the the Summit specifically and drove by a few more with friends who toured me around.

Gotta agree with Miesian as to comparing Summit with South Park, but I am not engaging in pissing match either.

My comments were meant to respond to your classification of Belk as "lower quality" than Parisian, to which I feel it is not.

[StevenRocks]

A little off topic, but I found an old Belk bag from the '70s, scanned it and put it on my blog.

http://stevenswain.blogspot.com/2006/06/yo...ping-store.html

[rockhilljames]

Just thought I'd offer an update. As of right now, Belk has been outbid for Parisians.

Don't know yet if they are going to counter. The likelyhood of Belk going above their offer is pretty slim, so this is going into the "probably not" category.

[mallguy]

Thank goodness- so at least Parisian has a reprieve, until Macy's buys it (and Belk's).

[DigitalSky]

So you think Federated is the higher bidder?

[gs3]

So you think Federated is the higher bidder?

Not from what I hear. I'm hearing about two other groups. Not Federated.

I think there is a decent chance Belk will "try" to up their bid....Tim Belk was heard to say "I WILL own Parisian", so I'm told.

We'll know soon enough as I think this will all be done by end of 2006.

[StevenRocks]

Thank goodness- so at least Parisian has a reprieve, until Macy's buys it (and Belk's).

Somehow that's better?