Arizona off-topic

[MJLO]

I read today that they are having trouble garnering enough signatures for AZ's gay marriage amendment, One of the reasons cited, voter complacency.

[colin]

I read today that they are having trouble garnering enough signatures for AZ's gay marriage amendment, One of the reasons cited, voter complacency.

This is a big misconception that, unfortunately, seems to be pretty common:

- Arizona already has a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage

- The ammendment in question, that may or may not make the Nov ballot, is an ammendment to ban employment benefits (healthcare, retirement, etc) to unmarried partners

- This ammendment does not specify anything regarding homosexuality or gender (which itself is blatantly unconstitutional), so it will also ban benefits to unmarried heterosexual couples

I read that Len Munsil's group (Center for Arizona Policy) hired a firm to get the signatures, but the firm failed to offer his particular sheet to most people because the issue is so polarizing, and they didn't want to alienate people into walking away and not signing the other sheets. Now they're left essentially holding their proverbial dicks.

Please tell others, man, because, like I said, a lot of people think that this is actually an anti-gay marriage ammendment, which would receive much more support than what they're actually offering up. I really don't want to see this thing passed, especially as some sort of misdirected rallying point for the state's gay marriage opponents.

Arizona Together is the anti force on this. They're quite active in both Phoenix and Tucson. Get involved if you can.

BTW, why is that the AZ congressmen with the weird-ass names are the ones supporting Len Munsil (which is, itself, a pretty strange name) for governor: "Who's Supporting Len? Four U.S. Congressmen! The Honorable John Shadegg, The Honorable Rick Renzi, The Honorable Jeff Flake, The Honorable Trent Franks" (sorry to quote that, but I don't want to give Len a link on here)

[Mith242]

I don't keep up with politics a lot but isn't Congress trying to pass something from keeping states from doing stuff like this?

[convulso]

does anyone know of a better selection of beers in tucson than that at the AJs snob-mart grocery at La Encantada? i'm sure there are, since we've only been here a month and just stumbled onto this one, but...well, damn. if there's a better selection, then of course i want to know.

still haven't seen dixie beers (blackened voodoo, etc.) out here, though. know anything about that, colin, since you're from houston? i'm missing the blackened voodoo.

[colin]

does anyone know of a better selection of beers in tucson than that at the AJs snob-mart grocery at La Encantada? i'm sure there are, since we've only been here a month and just stumbled onto this one, but...well, damn. if there's a better selection, then of course i want to know.

still haven't seen dixie beers (blackened voodoo, etc.) out here, though. know anything about that, colin, since you're from houston? i'm missing the blackened voodoo.

Ah, yes! Beers!

Trader Joe's is about the same as AJ's, but less snobby.

Best in town though is Plaza Liquors on Campbell between Grant and Glenn. They have a lot of domestic microwbrews, but also some good Belgians and other imports.

Another good one (surprisingly) is UA Liquors on Sixth@Park.

[Mith242]

does anyone know of a better selection of beers in tucson than that at the AJs snob-mart grocery at La Encantada? i'm sure there are, since we've only been here a month and just stumbled onto this one, but...well, damn. if there's a better selection, then of course i want to know.

still haven't seen dixie beers (blackened voodoo, etc.) out here, though. know anything about that, colin, since you're from houston? i'm missing the blackened voodoo.

I can't really speak on Arizona but I've never seen any Dixie beers in New Mexico. Not sure if they're very big out west.

[MJLO]

where is trader joe's around Mesa, I go to AJ's all the time, but only because I don't know where the Trader Joe's is out here.

[MJLO]

This is a big misconception that, unfortunately, seems to be pretty common:

- Arizona already has a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage

- The ammendment in question, that may or may not make the Nov ballot, is an ammendment to ban employment benefits (healthcare, retirement, etc) to unmarried partners

- This ammendment does not specify anything regarding homosexuality or gender (which itself is blatantly unconstitutional), so it will also ban benefits to unmarried heterosexual couples

I read that Len Munsil's group (Center for Arizona Policy) hired a firm to get the signatures, but the firm failed to offer his particular sheet to most people because the issue is so polarizing, and they didn't want to alienate people into walking away and not signing the other sheets. Now they're left essentially holding their proverbial dicks.

Please tell others, man, because, like I said, a lot of people think that this is actually an anti-gay marriage ammendment, which would receive much more support than what they're actually offering up. I really don't want to see this thing passed, especially as some sort of misdirected rallying point for the state's gay marriage opponents.

Arizona Together is the anti force on this. They're quite active in both Phoenix and Tucson. Get involved if you can.

BTW, why is that the AZ congressmen with the weird-ass names are the ones supporting Len Munsil (which is, itself, a pretty strange name) for governor: "Who's Supporting Len? Four U.S. Congressmen! The Honorable John Shadegg, The Honorable Rick Renzi, The Honorable Jeff Flake, The Honorable Trent Franks" (sorry to quote that, but I don't want to give Len a link on here)

So colin, I can tell that you're against this ammendment. But your wording was somewhat confusing. Arizona already has laws banning same sex marriage correct?

Is it not already a rallying point for the states gay marriage opponents?

[Mith242]

I've got an off the wall question. Do you guys have 'swamp coolers' in AZ and are they used very much? I know in New Mexico they seem to be rather common. But NM is also overall quite a bit higher in elevation than AZ and a bit cooler. I wasn't sure if much of AZ is too hot for them to be on much use. That and so much of the population has moved in in the past few decades well after AC came into use.

[MJLO]

I have seen them in much older places, but because of the intense heat, anything built with in the last 50 years has central AC, or anything that's been in use really.

[loftguy]

I think Phoenix is a great place to live if you take into account Scottsdale, Tempe, Downtown/ Midtown, North Phoenix, Chandler and Glendale are all within a half our drive from one another...

It's a 5 hour drive to the City of Sin, The Pacific Beach and Rocky Point...

Scottsdale has one of the best club scenes I have seen (minus L.A., NYC, Chicago and Vegas obviously)

Tempe overall and Mill Ave rocks- so does the Kierland area in North Scottsdale.

There is a lot to do if you are connected.

http://www.latimes.com/travel/la-tr-escape...,01227820.story

Read this article...

-I have to like it here though!

-I was born and raised here and I never moved.....

[convulso]

can someone set me straight on what a swamp cooler is? i've seen a sign or two in tucson referencing them, but i have no idea what they are. i think the AZ daily star makes light of them in a promotional ad, as well.

[convulso]

The city of Mesa, has more people living in it than the city of Atlanta, and it's denser with less land area that it covers. I just find it interesting that Phoenix's burbs are larger and more dense, than some world class core cities.

atlanta has an insanely small population to be as much of a landmark city as it is. its metro, of course, is larger than that of phoenix, and its skyline reflects that. it's probably the most affluent city (in terms of commercial development density) i can think of with a population under 500,000. after going to mesa, and looking at your pictures on the other post, it is surprising that mesa's pop. density is greater than atl's. atlanta feels alive when you're there, especially midtown. it's not a dead skyscraper jungle after 6 p.m. mesa must be primarily a residential city - the lack of multistory buildings really does conceal whatever density it has.

[MJLO]

No your absolutely right convulso, i'm fully aware of the cultural significance of Atlanta. I've been there many times, In fact my grandparents own a condo in a highrise in midtown. My purpose pointing to those facts. Was only to say that sprawl in metro Phoenix is relative, given the size of some of it's suburbs. Mesa is by far a bedroom community. I was blown away when I pulled those statistics

I wasn't trying to Dog Atlanta at all. The Skyline is breath taking, it is by far the capitol of the south.

[convulso]

No your absolutely right convulso, i'm fully aware of the cultural significance of Atlanta. I've been there many times, In fact my grandparents own a condo in a highrise in midtown. My purpose pointing to those facts. Was only to say that sprawl in metro Phoenix is relative, given the size of some of it's suburbs. Mesa is by far a bedroom community. I was blown away when I pulled those statistics

I wasn't trying to Dog Atlanta at all. The Skyline is breath taking, it is by far the capitol of the south.

lol - i wasn't even defending atlanta! sorry if i sounded defensive. i was just thinking out loud, i guess. it's just interesting how demographics can fit so differently with the actual experience of being in a city.

i do like atlanta - it (along with nyc & san francisco) is pretty much my definition of what a city should feel like if it is trying to be the booming american mega-urban 24/7 type of place. but i like other types of cities, too, which is why i love my hometown of bham, as well as tucson and a whole bunch of other places that aren't pretending to be boomtowns. mesa may be that kind of place - a nice city on its own terms. i need to experience it more than i have - maybe this weekend......

[MJLO]

If you have been to a suburb, you have been to Mesa. I feel that the city has been decently planned. It's certainly not built out yet, Some estimates put the city built out at over 600k. It has alot of medium density developements and many more planned. With the introduction of Mesa's lightrail line, I think you will see some more High rise, High density types of development in town. I cannot say for sure. But there is a slight corrupt culture in Mesa's leadership. So I wonder if anything substantial could make it's way to the city. Basically it seems the government functions on the buddy system. In terms of what gets to go where. But there also may just not be the demand for city like amenities in the town.

The city i was most impressed with was Gilbert. I have heard by some accounts that Gilbert is the fastest growing community in the country. I don't have any hard data in front of me to back it up though. But Gilbert has literally quintoupled in size in the last 15 years. The developements going in, in Gilbert. Seem very urban friendly. I was in one developement where the houses were literally 4 feet from each other with no yard, and the streets barely fit one car, but it was a really cute community. It seems the cities around here have taken steps to be responsible about sprawl. I mean you still have your box stores, and national personality free chains. But man are they cramming people in. There is so much undeveloped land in Gilbert who knows what the future will bring.

[Mith242]

can someone set me straight on what a swamp cooler is? i've seen a sign or two in tucson referencing them, but i have no idea what they are. i think the AZ daily star makes light of them in a promotional ad, as well.

I don't live in that area and I'm no expert but it's something a little like a humidifier. As the water evaporates because of the dryness it creates a cooling effect. I know some areas of New Mexico where it doesn't quite get so hot and you can really just get by with a swamp cooler than AC. Of course there's also some areas where you don't even really need either if you live high enough up in elevation.

[loftguy]

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/ar...ing0610Z11.html

Ironic Article on Mesa (You were kinda wrong Convulso- according to this article)

Edited June 14, 2006 by loftguy

[MJLO]

You know, reading that makes me happy. I have been under the impression that the people who run Mesa were so socially conservative, and stubborn, that this kind of responsible change would never happen. But I guess that goes to show that I really need to start researching. The more I read about Mesa, the more interesting it becomes.

[colin]

can someone set me straight on what a swamp cooler is? i've seen a sign or two in tucson referencing them, but i have no idea what they are. i think the AZ daily star makes light of them in a promotional ad, as well.

Swamp coolers are evaporative coolers. They work by sucking in hot, dry outside air and evaporating water to spit out cold air.

Most newer homes have both a/c and swamp and have a switch somewhere. Some even have two thermostats.

Why both? Because swamp coolers only work in low humidity when the air is not saturated. The higher the humidity, the less well the swamp cooler will work. However, they're much cheaper to run than A/C, which is why people have them in the first place.

A lot of older buildings around town (including many apartments) only have swamp, and it really sucks to be there in the summer when the humidity goes up.

[colin]

You know, reading that makes me happy. I have been under the impression that the people who run Mesa were so socially conservative, and stubborn, that this kind of responsible change would never happen. But I guess that goes to show that I really need to start researching. The more I read about Mesa, the more interesting it becomes.

Sorry, but Mesa is totally run by the Mormons. It always has been. If you research a little on the civic officials there, you'll find this out. Also, Rep. Jeff Flake, whose district covers most of Mesa, is the great-great grandson of William Jordan Flake, one of the founders of the town of Snowflake, an extreme Mormon town near Show Low (there aren't any bars there, and the Circle K is the only place that sells alcohol).

[MJLO]

No I know Colin, I was trying not to call out the mormons. But they do have a stronghold on the city, and as long as they force their beliefs on the residents the city will be stuck in mediocrity. However with all the new residents moving in, I can't imagine they can maintain power like that forever. Downtown is pretty, but one thing I notice is that it's for all intensive purposes dead. Shops closed vacant retail space ect. They need to get a night life and allow new things in, and it could really take off.

[colin]

I can't really speak on Arizona but I've never seen any Dixie beers in New Mexico. Not sure if they're very big out west.

The only place I've ever seen a Southern beer on tap in either town is at the French Quarter on Grant. They have a Louisianan amber, I believe from Abita Springs, that's very good. I don't recall the name though.

Other than that, people here are very focused on West Coast, especially California, microbrews.

[convulso]

They have a Louisianan amber, I believe from Abita Springs, that's very good. I don't recall the name though.

Other than that, people here are very focused on West Coast, especially California, microbrews.

probably abita purple haze, abita turbo dog, etc. the haze is okay; a little gimmicky. girls drink it because waiters tell them it's citrus-y, for a beer. turbo dog is good.

in AL, we just get sierra nevada, anchor steam...well, that's about it. i've already spent time drooling in front of coolers in stores here - even albertson's has more than i'm used to seeing. i'm not too snobby - i just like beer and how i can actually tell a difference between types and qualities (as opposed to wine, which baffles me). apparently AZ, like every other who'd-have-thunk-it state, has a vineyard industry it tries to promote. the results of that in alabama are pretty hi-lar-ious.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/ar...ing0610Z11.html

Ironic Article on Mesa (You were kinda wrong Convulso- according to this article)

i usually am - what about? i don't get it.

[convulso]

oh, and thanks for the swamp cooler info. weird concept (to my humid southern mind) - even though it's obviously been around for a long time.