Arizona off-topic

[colin]

probably abita purple haze, abita turbo dog, etc. the haze is okay; a little gimmicky. girls drink it because waiters tell them it's citrus-y, for a beer. turbo dog is good.

It may have been Purple Haze. They have $2 drafts for happy hour if you're ever interested in heading down to Grant.

San Diego, Healdsburg and Portland seem to have the best beers, or at least are the ones that we get in Tucson. We also get the Anchors from SFO, but I've never liked them very much.

Albertson's consistently has the best selection compared to Safeway and Fry's, though (although the recently-destroyed Safeway on Campbell had some good ones). I'm not sure why. They also have better wine.

For the more common beers, Stone is one of the better and more popular ones from SD, and Tucson is the furthest east they ship it (a fact I learned at their brewery tour in Escondido which I went way out of my to go to). They have it on tap in a few places here as well.

Deschutes from Portland is also very good. Black Butte is one of my favs, especially when you get it on tap.

You'll also see Red Hook pretty often, which is from Seattle. I like their IPA a lot.

Per the wine industry, I think it's nice, but I've honestly never had any good ones. Although it's still way better than the Texas and New Mexico stuff. But if you can find Kokopelli, it's supposedly good. They used to have a vineyard/tour in Willcox, but I believe it's closed, as I went looking for it once and no one in town knew what I was talking about. I know for a fact that they have a place in Downtown Chandler where you can get it, and they usually have a booth at the Fourth Avenue Street Fair selling it a huge mark-up.

It's a really fun trip to head down to Sonoita, Elgin and Patagonia though to go on a mini-wine tour. It's beautiful country, and only an hour or so drive.

[MJLO]

I didn't realize that Arizona had a wine industry of it's own.

[colin]

But there is a slight corrupt culture in Mesa's leadership. So I wonder if anything substantial could make it's way to the city. Basically it seems the government functions on the buddy system. In terms of what gets to go where.

You mean nepotism? A lot of the Southwest is like that. New Mexico is notorious. I don't mean to continue to rant about the Mormons (although I don't think we have any Mormon readers on this forum), but Mormon-dominated communities seem especially bad about this. AZ is not, and hopefully will never be, as bad as Utah, but I'm always extremely annoyed at any level of nepotism, especially in government. But of course, nothing will ever compare to Louisiana. It's totally ridiculous there.

The developements going in, in Gilbert. Seem very urban friendly. I was in one developement where the houses were literally 4 feet from each other with no yard, and the streets barely fit one car, but it was a really cute community.

Small streets, houses close to each other. That sounds somewhat New Urbanist. Where is this place? Did they have rear-loading driveways, walking trails and small "pocket" parks? It would be awesome if you found a New Urbanist community in the Valley. I didn't think that there were any.

I'm in Phoenix this weekend. I'm staying in Tempe (Baseline@10), but if I go alone then I'll certainly stop by in Gilbert and check it out, especially since I've never been.

[MJLO]

In regards to the mormons having a stronghold on the nations 40th largest city, I am hoping that with all the new residents moving in from all parts of the world, that the democratic process will slowly relieve them of power, and help rescue Mesa from the Jaws of mediocrity.

The community I speak of is near Ray and Greenfield, I found it one day when I was out being bored. I live at Val Vista and Baseline in a gated Mc Mansion sprawl burg. Not to far from this place at all. The driveways are rear loading. I'm not sure about walking trails, but everything I saw about it seemed so conservative of space. I'm going to have to get back there, i'll let you know about the trails and parks. But from what I can tell with all the explosive growth Gilbert has had. Not all of the developements going in are like that, but the city is not being frivolous with it's open land. Like I said I was impressed. One caveat about that community, it is gated. which I found was odd. But I think that's an east Valley thing, most of the communities i've seen around here are gated.

[colin]

One caveat about that community, it is gated. which I found was odd. But I think that's an east Valley thing, most of the communities i've seen around here are gated.

I had the opportunity to hear Tom Doucette talk about development while in Civano once (Tom Doucette is a well-known developer here). He had an interesting anecdote about gated communities that involved a community putting up three gates. Why? The price of the lots went up with each successive gate.

I live in a gated apartment building, although it's only gated to prevent people from Downtown parking there. Gated communities sort of typify this fear and isolationism that's very common with Americans: we're all scared of our neighbors and feel the need to isolate ourselves from what we perceive are the threats to our safety. But with property crime especially high in Arizona, I can understand the paranoia. It sucks to have your house broken into, and it's scary to think of it getting broken into while you're inside. Putting up a fence is more of a gesture than a real security measure though, I think. They're just not really that effective.

But if people are moving there just for the exclusivity, I think that just sucks.

[Mith242]

I didn't realize that Arizona had a wine industry of it's own.

Yeah I'm a big wine fan myself. I haven't had or seen any AZ wine but I have heard that the state has been making a move into the wine industry. It does seem to be a bit hot in many areas for some grape varieties. But then again all the sun and such probably help make some interestingly 'different' wines. It would seem to me that AZ could be an area to try making some port.

[MJLO]

Well there are definately more tempered zones once you're a little north of the valley. So I can see it.

Brief rant, stupid UsAirways/America West, had half of their flights delayed tonight, so I got rail roaded at work since they funneled all of the delayed flights onto my concourse! grrr, trust me when I say you don't want to have to deal with a couple thousand annoyed airline passengers being held hostage by an airline when all they want to do is go home! I'm beat

[loftguy]

i usually am - what about? i don't get it.

You had mentioned you didn't like cities pretending to be like San Fran if they're not- then said you like cities that are okay with what they are, "Mesa may be one of those cities".

And then Mesa goes out and hires a San Fran consultant to help shape them into a more urban city...

At least thqat was my understanding-

just a joke...

[MJLO]

heheheheh Mesa, "the mormon San Fran"

can't you guys see the bumper stickers?

[mcheiss]

Way to go MJLO, great job with the Arizona forum, keep up the good work.

[dar]

I have never been to Tuscon but I hate Phoenix. I live in NE Mesa in the Las Sendas area which is beautiful. We moved here from the SF Bayarea and besides buying at just the right time it has been a nightmare move. There is no culture here. We find it to be the driest place on earth in regard to weather and humor. You try and make a joke with anyone here and you're greeted with a blank stare. The road rage is unbelievable I even had a car try and run me off the road purposely for daring to pass when it was moving too slow. There are still gun slingers. I went to Hollywood Video and thought that the place was being robbed when some old dude came out with his gun in his holster. The warnings of smoking and cancer have obviously fallen on deaf ears because people smoke everywhere. In the entrance of the grocery store, my doctor's office, name it there they are puffing away in 115 degree heat. White trucks displaying confederate flags tooling down the highway. It is a backwards place. They close the highways like it's a small town. I have been late because I didn't catch the news the night before when they list the highway closings. You will have to drive MILES out of your way. You don't have to have a license to be in business or "bidness" as we laughingly refer to it--unless you are selling something that requires a resale license. So every "shmoe and Joe" is in bidness. This is the grossest place I've ever lived. I've lived in 5 states and this one takes the cake. It's no wonder that despite being the 3rd largest city it is ranked 50 for conventions due to it's ass backwards ways.

[dar]

where is trader joe's around Mesa, I go to AJ's all the time, but only because I don't know where the Trader Joe's is out here.

It's not you have to go down to Gilbert and Baseline which is actually on the Gilbert side.

[dar]

No I know Colin, I was trying not to call out the mormons. But they do have a stronghold on the city, and as long as they force their beliefs on the residents the city will be stuck in mediocrity. However with all the new residents moving in, I can't imagine they can maintain power like that forever. Downtown is pretty, but one thing I notice is that it's for all intensive purposes dead. Shops closed vacant retail space ect. They need to get a night life and allow new things in, and it could really take off.

Mesa has a lot of potential but you can still feel the Mormon grip--try hunting for Starbucks. As I hate Arizona I probably won't see it grow up But the downtown area has a beautiful new art center. The sculptures that are on display for a portion of the year are beatiful too. There are a number of cute new shops. You are right on though about how far they will go. NE where I am is great. Go out Power Road North and there are some really nice places to eat: Zocalos, Indigo Joes (our new fav) a Trader Joes out there would be perfect but I see a Whole Foods or an AJs sort of like the Dana Park area.

[MJLO]

Dar welcome to the forum my friend, we always enjoy new voices, and could use as many as possible. You seem to have had a very negative experience here, I am sorry for that. I to am away from home, and struggling to find the positives. I can say that I find little things as a I research that really help ease my missing home. One thing that I really enjoy watching, is the very concerted efforts they are making towards giving the area a real sense of community. It's hard to develope a sense of community when three quarters of your residents have been in place 15 years or less.

[Mith242]

Weird, from what I've been seeing it seems like everyone moved to AZ. I'm curious to see if there are any AZ natives and what their opinions on the area would be. I also wonder if the local AZ people think their local culture has been wiped out with so many people from outside the area moving in.

[GRDadof3]

Forgive my ignorance, but does Arizona have a lot of "snowbirds" like Florida does?

[colin]

Weird, from what I've been seeing it seems like everyone moved to AZ. I'm curious to see if there are any AZ natives and what their opinions on the area would be. I also wonder if the local AZ people think their local culture has been wiped out with so many people from outside the area moving in.

I think that there's frustration from ranchers and farmers that those ways of life are quickly eroding in the face of sprawl development and rising land costs.

I haven't heard a lot of resentment though from the natives I've met. Arizonans are generally pretty cordial and welcoming, at least in most places I've been. I'm certain there is some though, but I've never had anyone say anything bad to me about living here such a short time.

Oh, but there is certainly resentment toward the Californians, especially in Tucson. That's mostly due to the rising housing costs though, which many attribute to the speculators (and rightly so) who don't even live here.

Forgive my ignorance, but does Arizona have a lot of "snowbirds" like Florida does?

Definitely. Both Phoenix and Tucson rely heavily upon them economically, and Yuma and Quartzsite wouldn't even exist without them. Tucson is much more quiet in the summer months because of their, and the UA students' departure, which makes being here at that time more bareable. Hotels, especially the resorts, are also unbelievably cheap during this time.

[MJLO]

Forgive my ignorance, but does Arizona have a lot of "snowbirds" like Florida does?

Jeff Snowbirds are like locusts. When I was in Grand Rapids old people annoyed me. When I got out here, Arby's put me at a restaurant at the intersection of Power and Main. Which is like the Mecca for old people communities in the east valley. Everyday on my way to work, all three lanes of traffic would be blocked by two buicks from Iowa and one minivan from Minnesota, they travel side by side, and don't exceed speeds of 35 mph. (I later learned that that is called a fogie blockade). When I got to work, It was seriously the busiest Arby's I had ever worked at, and it was only the snowbirds that were the clientele! I finally figured out that god was punishing me for beotching about old people in the first place back home.

[colin]

On the subject of road rage, holy sh*t!

I'll second the gripe about ADOT road closures in Phoenix. They're random and seemingly for no reason. Phoenix is the one city I've seen where it's vital to read the construction updates in the paper on a daily basis, especially on weekends. Otherwise, you'll find yourself stuck for 20 minutes, and then on some strange side road trying to navigate the detour.

[Mith242]

Jeff Snowbirds are like locusts. When I was in Grand Rapids old people annoyed me. When I got out here, Arby's put me at a restaurant at the intersection of Power and Main. Which is like the Mecca for old people communities in the east valley. Everyday on my way to work, all three lanes of traffic would be blocked by two buicks from Iowa and one minivan from Minnesota, they travel side by side, and don't exceed speeds of 35 mph. (I later learned that that is called a fogie blockade). When I got to work, It was seriously the busiest Arby's I had ever worked at, and it was only the snowbirds that were the clientele! I finally figured out that god was punishing me for beotching about old people in the first place back home.

Yeah I have to imagine there's quite a few around AZ. I see quite a around NM and much of it isn't quite as warm in the winter like so much of AZ.

[MJLO]

On the subject of road rage, holy sh*t!

I'll second the gripe about ADOT road closures in Phoenix. They're random and seemingly for no reason. Phoenix is the one city I've seen where it's vital to read the construction updates in the paper on a daily basis, especially on weekends. Otherwise, you'll find yourself stuck for 20 minutes, and then on some strange side road trying to navigate the detour.

Why is that? that annoys me so much. When I first moved here, I was late for work every weekend. Every expressway that I needed to take had detrours. A couple of times I had to go thru tempe to get to Scottsdale from Mesa. Now i'm getting a little wiser, but they are still pretty good about suprising me.

And what's the deal with that story! That can't be road rage, there has to be something more to that. People don't just randomly start shooting other motorists because they were cut off or something. But this is Phoenix, and the traffic is pretty heavy so I guess anything is possible.

[Mith242]

Why is that? that annoys me so much. When I first moved here, I was late for work every weekend. Every expressway that I needed to take had detrours. A couple of times I had to go thru tempe to get to Scottsdale from Mesa. Now i'm getting a little wiser, but they are still pretty good about suprising me.

And what's the deal with that story! That can't be road rage, there has to be something more to that. People don't just randomly start shooting other motorists because they were cut off or something. But this is Phoenix, and the traffic is pretty heavy so I guess anything is possible.

I don't think this is just for AZ. I've been hearing more about stuff like this in many other places as well. Sounds like there have been cases where they can't find any other link between the people involved. Although it certainly seems ridiculous that people would get so upset they they would result to such measures.

[ZachariahDaMan]

The U.S. Census Bureau says that Phoenix added the most people from 2004 to 2005. It added 44,400 to make it's population about 1.5 million.

[MJLO]

estimates are estimates, so I take them with a grain of salt. I wonder if Phoenix officially has more people than Philly yet. It's got to come soon. But boy when you're in Phoenix you sure can't tell you're in the 5th largest city in the country. With the skyline you could barely say you were in Grand Rapids.

[MJLO]

you guys I want rain!!!! I'll even take a lonely cloud in the sky