Economic Development in South Carolina

[gs3]

According to The Greenville News print edition ( ), CT-T, which just announced a manufacturing facility in Duncan, is looking at Greenville County for a 50 worker research facility! They're supposedly looking at SCTAC for some reason, but I think ICAR makes the most sense given Clemson University's resources on site... I wonder if they're HQ would follow a research facility?

Either way, a greater international presence in Greenville is always welcome!

Agreed. ICAR makes more sense, but I do like the fact we have the added option of SCTAC. More choices for more companies.

SCTAC has more land, so maybe they need space for test track facilities?

[GvilleSC]

SCTAC has more land, so maybe they need space for test track facilities?

There's a thought! Perhaps?

[CorgiMatt]

Small businesses are the backbone of SC's economy, and both candidates for governor are saying they want to help small businesses in this state. Forbes has just recognized SC Launch as an example of how South Carolina is serious about growing small, high-tech businesses that begin as research spin-offs. They cite the collaborating research universities as catalysts. I think with the new business-friendly regulations the General Assembly passed this session and the momentum coming from SC Launch, SC is poised to start really shining as a place to do business.

http://www.columbiabusinessreport.com/news/34963-sc-launch-recognized-by-forbes?rss=0

[gs3]

Greenville-Spartanburg International Airport will spend 98 Million to add on and remodel the existing terminal, in part, to meet the growth expected with the coming service of Southwest. I posted under economic development, because anytime you pump 98 Million into the local economy it has economic impact. To put a perspective on how extensive this remodel will be, the huge, beautiful headquarters for Hubbell Lighting off I-85 was only 41 Million. 98 Million for the airport terminal is basically buying a new terminal. Should be beautiful. Can't wait to see renderings.

Article:

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20100714/ARTICLES/7141019/1051

[GvilleSC]

This should definitely have a greatly positive economic impact on the Upstate! The drive from 85 to the airport is already stunningly beautiful.

[gman430]

Cooper-Standard has announced a $7 million expansion that will add 60 jobs to their Spartanburg facility according to this news article from GSA Business: http://www.gsabusiness.com/news/35070-cooper-standard-to-expand?rss=0

[gs3]

The Upstate is on a roll...........

900 jobs coming to Laurens County. ZF Group of Germany will invest 350 million in a new facility (the largest single investment in Laurens County history).

Story:

http://www.wyff4.com/news/24352143/detail.html

Edited July 22, 2010 by gsupstate

[gman430]

Upstate SC has landed more jobs/capital investments this year than all of the other regions in the state combined according to this news release from Upstate Alliance:

http://www.upstatesc...id-year_report/

The Upstate SC Alliance today announced that, through the first six months of 2010, the region's efforts have already resulted in more than $1.3 billion of planned capital investment in the Upstate of South Carolina. That's half a billion dollars more than the region's annual average, and more than all the other regions in the state of South Carolina combined.

Approximately 3,671 new jobs will be added in the Upstate by 26 companies that announced capital investment plans during the first half of 2010. Many of these companies come from the four industry sectors the Upstate SC Alliance has targeted for economic investment in the region: automotive, advanced materials, biosciences and energy. And seven of the companies are international, with headquarters based in Canada, Japan, Germany, Australia, France and South Korea.

Edited July 22, 2010 by citylife

[gs3]

^ Have to add the new 900 from ZF to that number!

[krazeeboi]

That's a very large investment and can be attributed, in whole or in part, to ICAR's presence obviously.

[Spartan]

Wow, those are impressive stats!

I will say though, that it is frustrating to me that most of those jobs are low to mid paying manufacturing jobs. The only significant investment that will generate a significant number of higher paying jobs seems to be at ICAR.

Just to be clear here, my issue is not with ICAR, but how this economic type development will translate into changes in the built environment. I'll add that personally I only see more sprawl for Spartanburg since they are primarily gaining manufacturing jobs. How can the Upstate (and South Carolina) continue to attract this level of economic investment and focus the jobs in a less scattered form?

Modern manufacturing jobs have to be low density and scattered around. That's just how it is. In my opinion there needs to be a push to create smart growth by encouraging companies to use or retrofit existing buildings, move into downtowns and densify existing urban nodes (ICAR being one of them).

For example, if that Korean car company does decide to move its headquarters to the state, our leaders need to court them into moving into downtown Spartanburg or downtown Greenville. Those locations will only benefit from those types office jobs. I know there is plenty of available space in either city to accommodate their needs, and both have plenty of under-used land that can contribute to more dense urban nodes.

[GvilleSC]

Spartan, you have some valid concerns about growth. This is where the upstate should probably work together. However, how will you ever get different growth-hungry entities to agree to send new jobs elsewhere?

Kudos to the City of Greenville, however, for working with Proterra. Not only did they attract the manufacturing facility to CU-ICAR and the City limits, but they've found them their temporary manufacturing space in an empty building in the City... A small victory, but an important one.

I've tried to discuss other municipalities and counties getting more active with Greenville, but I believe that drew criticism.

I can't speak for other areas, but I know Greenville is banking on the attractiveness that Southwest will add for white collar jobs.

Edited July 23, 2010 by GvilleSC

[gs3]

Wow, those are impressive stats!

I will say though, that it is frustrating to me that most of those jobs are low to mid paying manufacturing jobs. The only significant investment that will generate a significant number of higher paying jobs seems to be at ICAR.

Just to be clear here, my issue is not with ICAR, but how this economic type development will translate into changes in the built environment. I'll add that personally I only see more sprawl for Spartanburg since they are primarily gaining manufacturing jobs. How can the Upstate (and South Carolina) continue to attract this level of economic investment and focus the jobs in a less scattered form?

Modern manufacturing jobs have to be low density and scattered around. That's just how it is. In my opinion there needs to be a push to create smart growth by encouraging companies to use or retrofit existing buildings, move into downtowns and densify existing urban nodes (ICAR being one of them).

For example, if that Korean car company does decide to move its headquarters to the state, our leaders need to court them into moving into downtown Spartanburg or downtown Greenville. Those locations will only benefit from those types office jobs. I know there is plenty of available space in either city to accommodate their needs, and both have plenty of under-used land that can contribute to more dense urban nodes.

A bit of food for thought.....

- Check out the average salary at these manufacturing plants....not only are many of the hourly workers well paid, you have to factor in all the levels of management. Additionally, this isn't manufacturing as in people without education simply welding a piece of metal. Much of the engineering required for these complex automotive systems in turn require engineers. You would be shocked.

- Secondly, citizens in the US are realizing that for the past 30 years we have "sold our soul to the devil" so to speak by outsourcing manufacturing to China. The U.S. can not exist as only a white collar country.....as only a consuming country.....as only a knowledge based country. The U.S. must produce to thrive....simple economics. A return to better, more high tech, clean manufacturing is very welcomed and is mostly what the Upstate has been landing (Proterra, CT&T and now ZF which produces gas saving drivelines).

As for density, you have a tough road to convince me that it is only manufacturing that creates sprawl, low density. Been to the DC metro lately.....one of the worst, sprawling metros in the country and its business is average paying, government office jobs. The sprawl that has ruined the surrounding land in VA and MD is appalling. It sickens my stomach to drive from Dulles into the city and look at the low density, low rise buildings filled with office workers. I'll think of you on Tuesday when I'm driving the Tollway North in Dallas for miles and miles and miles to my meeting and passing row after row of 5 story, sprawled out, office campus complexes.

Just food for thought to shed a little perspective.

[GvilleSC]

When considering density in relation to manufacturing facilities, I think that's where we will find the benefits of SCTAC, CU-ICAR, etc come into play by creating job clusters in Greenville County. Some, more urbanly arranged than others (well, one), but ultimately, they'll provide destinations for a revamped transportation system.

SCTAC was a rumored on here, I believe, as a place for CT&T's HQ. Hopefully, that's not the case considering that they're in the automotive industry, not aerospace.

[Spartan]

Good points all around.

Most economic development can cause sprawl. ICAR is one of the better examples of that. It's a fine facility, and lots of great things happening there that will ultimately benefit South Carolina, but at its core it is still one more suburban office complex (with admittedly more aesthetically pleasing buildings) that happens to include R&D.

My point isn't that office jobs do not create sprawl. My point is more simply that office jobs can be more easily recruited into existing office space without having to build new facilities, and where new buildings are needed, locate them in existing urban nodes like downtown Greenville, Spartanburg, etc.

If you look at Atlanta, Charlotte, DC, Dallas, etc they all have one thing in common. They are larger cities that have had suburban sprawl as their primary development pattern for 65 years, though in the past 15-20 there has been a larger push for more urban style development. The cities I mention are all working to install and expand transit to change development patterns in addition to concentrating job growth in identified nodes, in large part because of the volume of office jobs. Here in South Carolina, our cities have experienced the same problem, but on a much smaller scale. We are in the fortunate position of having the ability to correct the situation before it gets out of hand.

The fact remains that the locations and design of manufacturing facilities will not create a more sustainable growth pattern in the Upstate. I'm not suggesting that we deter more manufacturing jobs, there just needs to be a more concerted effort to locate them in an organized way.

Maybe I need to change my thinking and just accept the fact that everything within a mile of I-85 is probably going to be a manufacturing or distribution facility with the occasional research facility mixed in.

[gs3]

Spartan. Your points are a bit confusing. I had much more more to say, but I'll leave it there and just be happy that Greenville and Upstate are outpacing most in development and doing a pretty decent job of connecting all the developments (Greenlink plans) and creating density, bike lanes, a walkable city, etc. Not perfect (yet ) but then what place is?

[gs3]

Upstate SC has landed more jobs/capital investments this year than all of the other regions in the state combined according to this news release from Upstate Alliance:

http://www.upstatesc...id-year_report/

The Upstate SC Alliance today announced that, through the first six months of 2010, the region's efforts have already resulted in more than $1.3 billion of planned capital investment in the Upstate of South Carolina. That's half a billion dollars more than the region's annual average, and more than all the other regions in the state of South Carolina combined.

Approximately 3,671 new jobs will be added in the Upstate by 26 companies that announced capital investment plans during the first half of 2010. Many of these companies come from the four industry sectors the Upstate SC Alliance has targeted for economic investment in the region: automotive, advanced materials, biosciences and energy. And seven of the companies are international, with headquarters based in Canada, Japan, Germany, Australia, France and South Korea.

It isn't over yet. From what I hear....a couple of spinoffs of ZF will be announcing plans shortly and I hear it is several hundred jobs.

Additionally, in hearing more, the 900 jobs at ZF looks poised to go up to 1,500.

[Spartan]

Let me try again. There are two angles that I was trying to address, and I agree I didn't do it very well.

First is economic development-

• All of these new jobs are great
  
• ICAR is a very important center for the high-tech industry we want in the Upstate
  
• Greenville is doing a particularly good job of attracting the type of jobs that we need across the entire upstate.
  

The built environment-

• The City of Greenville is doing a decent job of creating a more walkable environment, the exception being ICAR
  
• ICAR is a suburban style office complex. Its mini-nodes might be somewhat walkable, but overall the whole thing is not.
  
• Aside from the City of Greenville the City of Spartanburg and a little bit in downtown Anderson, very little is being done to change the built environment in the upstate.
  
• All of this these great jobs will lead to healthy growth as has been the case in the Upstate for years.
  
• Most of this growth will not occur in the places that are doing the best job of affecting change, and no county in the Upstate has a zoning ordinance worth mentioning.
  

Perhaps this regional planning effort will change things, but so far no comprehensive plan to address land use and transportation exists in either Greenville or Spartanburg Counties (where most of the growth is happening) that will help transform our region for the better. I'm not trying to be a 'doom and gloom' type here, I'm just hoping to get more people (especially the lurkers) to think more about how additional jobs will impact our region in terms of the built environment.

[vicupstate]

^^^ For the most part you are right, but I disagree about ICAR's design. It uses parking garages instead of massive surface lots, there are sidewalks THROUGHOUT the site, as well as bike lanes. It is being built with mass transit integrated into the master plan. I guess they could always do MORE, but they are years ahead of standard office parks.

[Spartan]

I agree in that they are planning for future transit, and it looks a lot better than a generic office park (and this is coming from someone who generally dislikes modern architecture). IMO it will be more interesting to see what sort of synergy develops between ICAR and Verdae.

[GvilleSC]

I agree in that they are planning for future transit, and it looks a lot better than a generic office park (and this is coming from someone who generally dislikes modern architecture). IMO it will be more interesting to see what sort of synergy develops between ICAR and Verdae.

Hopefully you won't have to wait too long (fingers crossed)! Verdae has gotten approval from the City for its first portions of the health/fitness/retail area, which is adjacent to Ruskin Square (TND), and the wildly popular Legacy Park. With this being the first non-residential new construction, we should start to see some jiving of uses and activity within Verdae, itself. I think the BRT route will SIGNIFICANTLY enhance the connection between the ICAR and Verdae. I'm anxious to see how the City decides to create the Verdae stop. ICAR is set because Tech neighborhood one is adjacent to the tracks, but Verdae would benefit from a deviation from the tracks in order to BEST access the residences, park, and town center...

In speaking of modern architecture, can I ask your thoughts on Reedy Square?

Edited July 28, 2010 by GvilleSC

[Spartan]

That's another interesting point of discussion. BRT has not proven to be an effective catalyst for new development in the USA. However, in this case there are two developments that are real and are happening... so how will the BRT connection impact those two nodes, and will it actually impact the area between downtown and Verdae/ICAR?

As for Reedy Square, I like the concept and function aspects of the project, but as for the design, I'm not a fan of boxes haphazardly stacked like that, and I don't care for the minimalist design (I have the same opinion of the new UNC Charlotte tower being built in Charlotte). To Reedy Square's credit the abundance of natural vegetation should help hide the ugliness.

My preference is for 1) buildings that function well within the urban environment (regardless of how they look) and 2) detailed architecture.

So perhaps I should refine my statement to not lump all modern architecture together. One of my favorite examples of modern architecture is actually the Hearst Tower here in Charlotte. It is sort of a modern-gothic style building, and I encourage all to look up some images of it if you aren't familiar. It functions well on the street level (with shops and a plaza), and it has modern lines without being minimalistic.

I'll also say this for Greenville, I appreciate the trend of becoming the "anti-Charleston" in terms of architecture. And since this is a state-wide thread, Columbia seems to fall somewhere in the middle of the two- which is appropriate. I've always been of the opinion that the capital needs some old style and some modern too.

[GvilleSC]

I enjoyed your above post!

That's another interesting point of discussion. BRT has not proven to be an effective catalyst for new development in the USA. However, in this case there are two developments that are real and are happening... so how will the BRT connection impact those two nodes, and will it actually impact the area between downtown and Verdae/ICAR?

As far as BRT is concerned, I'm personally not too familiar with any systems out there that are currently in place. Maybe you have some in mind that you could bring to light here in this thread..? I'd love to do some examining of current systems.

But, with this particular line, you're right in stating that two very REAL developments are taking place right now along the route (one being a large employment center, and the other being a massive live/work/play setup). Plus, there's no hiding the fact that the City envisions this route to one day become a light rail line (with this line establishing the ROW, stop locations, and a ridership base to build on for that future changeover). So, this makes me wonder if other BRT systems are simply BRT to be BRT in the long term, or if they too are being used as publicly-acknowledged transition systems for LRT. If that's 20 years out, or 100, nobody knows for Greenville... And, I'd hate for it to be rushed and flop.

[gs3]

[*]ICAR is a suburban style office complex. Its mini-nodes might be somewhat walkable, but overall the whole thing is not.

Maybe someone needs to visit ICAR more or understand the neighborhood design element. Wow, the two above quoted sentences are so far off base (no offense) I don't even know where to start.

The neibghborhoods are not "somewhat" walkable. They "are" walkable. No surface parking....all parking in decks that comes right up to the sidewalks. The office buildings are tightly clustered right up to the street and each other. The "street" and siewalks are both from the same pavers, with the curb the only identifying marking of separation to encourage a very European coexistence of pedestrians and cars. The entire ICAR land is divided into densely packed neighborhoods to conserve land and give areas for trees, birds, animals in between neighborhoods. Each dense neighborhood was intended to share like minded companies, so that exchange of ideas and walkability flowed within a neighborhood. When one has to leave one dense neighborhood for another there are nature walks connecting them.

I can't think of more forward thinking and well planned design for pedestrians, offices and the environment. Keep densely populated, highly walkable neighborhoods separated by nature. Best of both.

[Spartan]

It is a green development, I've made no issue about that. And I'm not sure what makes parking decks so revolutionary. It's better than a parking lot to be sure, but that's about it. Come to downtown Charlotte and I'll show you why parking decks can be pure evil.

Anyway, sidewalks alone do not make a place walkable. What is there to walk to?