Five Points

[Spartan]

The NIMBY group that wants the parking garage to be taken out has made some headway. Council gave preliminary approval to the plan, but they requested formal proposals from owners of other potential parking garage sites in Five Points. This is the best project Columbia has had proposed since I've been keeping track of what's happening. It will actually contribute positively to the urban environment while accommodating more parking without uglying everything up with a generic parking deck. People talk about keeping Five Points funky, but when it comes time to make it happen, some people aren't willing to put up with what it takes to make that happen. Nobody wants to see the character of Five Points destroyed, and IMO, the Five Points South building is the embodiment of the message that area residents should be sending to developers: bring us unique, high quality projects to Five Points. Two stories will make absolutely no difference in the long run. There are already 5 or 6 buildings taller than this one in sight. if you take the garage out, you only compromise someone else's lot and set it up so that there is a much better chance that the city will be forced to build its own lot that will be significantly less attractive. Just look at the garage proposals in the Vista and you'll see what I mean.

I sincerely hope that City Council will vote to support this project and that their looking into alternate sites is a matter of being polite.

Article in The State

[Captain Worley]

MM...I'm kind of up in the air. I like the idea of the parking being in the building, but if can be done cheaper the other way, and some claim much cheaper, than I believe they should go that route. I'm a bit apprehensive about this project, mainly because they seemed completely surprised by the tunnels.

[waccamatt]

I agree about saving money wherever possible, but I'm concerned that the other garage will not be used much because it will be out of sight from most places in Five Points. Columbians are also agonizingly lazy when it comes to parking a couple of blocks away from their destination. The Five Points South location is adjacent to the stores on Saluda, Santee and Harden while the other location is 2 or 3 blocks away.

[Doug L]

Spartan, you are right on the money on this one! If this project does not go forward, garage and all, it will make other developers think twice before investing in Five Points. Five Points and ultimately Columbia in general will be shooting themselves in the foot.

[krazeeboi]

I agree about saving money wherever possible, but I'm concerned that the other garage will not be used much because it will be out of sight from most places in Five Points. Columbians are also agonizingly lazy when it comes to parking a couple of blocks away from their destination. The Five Points South location is adjacent to the stores on Saluda, Santee and Harden while the other location is 2 or 3 blocks away.

Very true. Also, I think a garage in the FPS project itself would be better utilized, especially at night, given its high visibility. People would feel more safe parking there then at a hidden garage behind Claussen's. I think that the cost for this proposed stand-alone garage will wind up being significantly more than has been prematurely stated, and that even if it still comes out cheaper per space than the two levels of parking within FPS, better utilization and higher visibility of the FPS spaces will be worth the extra expense.

[johnpro318]

Zoning was approved for the Kenny's Auto Site

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/256377.html

6 stories with 2 for parking. Unless the city decides otherwise.

It also says a lot could change with the design as the city decides about parking and other things. But that is expected with any project. At least this is moving forward!

[BrasilnSC]

I like the FPS current design and hope that it doesn't change. But if the city decides on a parking garage else where, like the site behind Claussen's Inn, I would hope that it would have some street level retail maybe facing College St.

[CarolinaSouth]

I like the current design also....and i also feel as if the people saying that 6 stories is too high for that area are delusional in thinking that it would be out of place. I mean that student tower is right there, that bank building on Harden and the Whitney hotel are in the area...and that's just to name a few...some people just refuse to see the bigger picture [overall for the city trying to grow and improve it's appeal outside of the city] instead of for personal beliefs. I know my views can be debated and ripped apart, but i just want this project to be done as is...how many times have floors been scaled down or projects been delayed because of reasons like this in this city and around the state. Let the designers who dreamed up the design do it the way they envisioned it...

And to be honest...although 3 blocks isn't that far to walk, given the choice i'd rather be able to park closer. That's safer to me and if i was one of the 26 possible condo owners...i think that would be stupid that i can't park closer than 3 blocks away given the amount of money that i spent for it.

[waccamatt]

I like the current design also....and i also feel as if the people saying that 6 stories is too high for that area are delusional in thinking that it would be out of place. I mean that student tower is right there, that bank building on Harden and the Whitney hotel are in the area...and that's just to name a few...some people just refuse to see the bigger picture [overall for the city trying to grow and improve it's appeal outside of the city] instead of for personal beliefs. I know my views can be debated and ripped apart, but i just want this project to be done as is...how many times have floors been scaled down or projects been delayed because of reasons like this in this city and around the state. Let the designers who dreamed up the design do it the way they envisioned it...

And to be honest...although 3 blocks isn't that far to walk, given the choice i'd rather be able to park closer. That's safer to me and if i was one of the 26 possible condo owners...i think that would be stupid that i can't park closer than 3 blocks away given the amount of money that i spent for it.

I'm sure even if the parking garage located behind Claussen's, the condo owners would have on-site parking. Imagine having 10 bags of groceries and having to park 3 blocks away - it wouldn't work. The area behind Claussen's might be good for another garage someday, but the parking is needed in the center of Five Points, not over on College Street - out of sight, out of mind.

[BrasilnSC]

I agree. I wish the NIMBY's in Wales Garden neighborhood would just shut up. This project will be a huge positive for 5 points and their neighborhood and will give momentum to other projects in the area. Come on, is 6 stories really that much of a difference from 4. What is the actual height of a parking deck compared to one floor of office space and residential?

[waccamatt]

I agree. I wish the NIMBY's in Wales Garden neighborhood would just shut up. This project will be a huge positive for 5 points and their neighborhood and will give momentum to other projects in the area. Come on, is 6 stories really that much of a difference from 4. What is the actual height of a parking deck compared to one floor of office space and residential?

Its the junior league crowd that has nothing better to do with their time. A 6 story building is not going to destroy the character of Five Points. I am all for design guidelines and historic preservation, but there has to be some reason inserted into the argument. We don't want to become another Charlotte where everything is torn down for something new, but you can't be so strict that growth is hindered. I think the current 6-story design of FPS is ideal. The project they need to be opposing is Green Diamond - I am deadset against building in a known flood zone. Five Points is a perfect example of that - if Five Points had been built on a nearby hill instead of where it is they wouldn't have had all of the flooding problems through the years and we could have a nice urban park in that valley instead.

[johnpro318]

I just wish the local agencies could see that this will help them greatly in the future. The parking would be better with the building than 3 blocks away. People in Columbia are not ready to walk that far for parking. [i don't think] It would get utilized more at its current planned location.

[krazeeboi]

Honestly, I can somewhat see where the opponents are coming from. Yes, there are buildings with some height in Five Points, but none that are really in the heart of the commercial district. The Whitney hotel is down the street on Devine, and the other buildings are more along the perimeter, so I can see why there might be room for concern. I'm also not really aware of any buildings that were altogether canned in Columbia because of height issues. If anything, I see this as a good thing--people are concerned with preserving the sense of place in Five Points.

That said, I still think the best place for the parking is within the FPS development itself. I don't think a garage behind Claussen's Inn would be well-utilized at all (as Waccamatt alluded to), nor is it in the safest location for nighttime visitors.

[Spartan]

But that doesn't make any sense. If anything, all the buildings on the periphery imply that more SHOULD be built in the center.

[Doug L]

I think the people of Wale's Garden are misinformed and hysterical over a non-issue. There is an eighteen story apartment building only a block away from the subject development and Wale's Garden didn't self destruct. The high rise is even on the Wale's Garden side of Blossom Street. I don't understand their concern.

[BrasilnSC]

New foutain on Saluda is coming along, slowly.

[krazeeboi]

But that doesn't make any sense. If anything, all the buildings on the periphery imply that more SHOULD be built in the center.

Possibly, but I don't see why that automatically means that tall buildings should necessarily be built in the center.

New foutain on Saluda is coming along, slowly.

Thanks for the update!

[BrasilnSC]

The building that housed the old Parthenon Greek restaurant on Harden St across from the foutain (it's been vacant for quite some time now), is being renovated. It has been painted a sort of terracotta color which I think looks great. A new establishment called "Parrot Head" is moving in and it will serve burgers and drinks.

Edited December 20, 2007 by BrasilnSC

[Spartan]

Possibly, but I don't see why that automatically means that tall buildings should necessarily be built in the center.

Thanks for the update!

Tall is a relative term. Is a 6 storey building really all that tall when compared to the handful of other tall or imposing buildings in the area?

[krazeeboi]

Tall is a relative term. Is a 6 storey building really all that tall when compared to the handful of other tall or imposing buildings in the area?

No, but it is tall when compared to the buildings immediately surrounding it.

[CorgiMatt]

The former Parthenon restaurant is being renovated into a Parrot Heads restaurant. It has been freshly painted a rust color with white trim, and they're reworking the interior.

[Spartan]

No, but it is tall when compared to the buildings immediately surrounding it.

Exactly. My point is that when considering the context, you have to look further than that. The character of the neighborhood around it should be the main guide.

[waccamatt]

The former Parthenon restaurant is being renovated into a Parrot Heads restaurant. It has been freshly painted a rust color with white trim, and they're reworking the interior.

Is this a chain? I'm not familiar with the restaurant.

[CorgiMatt]

I think it is. I vaguely remember reading that they were locating here, but I can't say for sure.

[krazeeboi]

Exactly. My point is that when considering the context, you have to look further than that. The character of the neighborhood around it should be the main guide.

It should be a part of the puzzle, but I don't think that necessarily means it should be the main guide. It would be like saying that a 30-story tower should be built in the Vista because the Vista is a part of downtown, and other parts of downtown have highrises. I think immediate context plays a stronger role here.