Five Points

[Spartan]

You have a point. Though I think the Vista is more of a district within downtown just like Five Points is. Its not a fair comparison of scenarios to look outside of the Vista for that supposed 30 storey tower because the same has not been done for Five Points.

A relative antithetical comparison would be to suggest that a 4 storey building should NOT be built on Main Street because there are 15-20 storey highrises there.

[krazeeboi]

You have a point. Though I think the Vista is more of a district within downtown just like Five Points is. Its not a fair comparison of scenarios to look outside of the Vista for that supposed 30 storey tower because the same has not been done for Five Points.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly here. We've mentioned the Finlay House tower in Five Points as a point of reference.

A relative antithetical comparison would be to suggest that a 4 storey building should NOT be built on Main Street because there are 15-20 storey highrises there.

I don't think that's a valid comparison, as most highrise districts usually have a few lowrises/midrises scattered throughout, whereas there are many lowrise/midrise districts that have height restrictions so as to preserve the feel and character of that area. A highrise has so much more potential to interrupt the character of a lowrise district than vice versa.

[Spartan]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly here. We've mentioned the Finlay House tower in Five Points as a point of reference.

I don't think that's a valid comparison, as most highrise districts usually have a few lowrises/midrises scattered throughout, whereas there are many lowrise/midrise districts that have height restrictions so as to preserve the feel and character of that area. A highrise has so much more potential to interrupt the character of a lowrise district than vice versa.

I'm saying I think the character of the neighborhood as a whole needs to be factored in to the height of some supposed new building. The height of its immediate neighbors is a key factor too, but I don't think it should be the determinate one. In the Vista, there are no highrises, though there are many nearby on Main Street. IMO, that is one of the best characteristics of the Vista, so putting highrise there would change the character as you said. I think that if you build a highrise in Five Points that it would detract less than it would in the Vista. Obviously it would depend on the height. I'm not suggesting that anything major be built in 5pts but I do think that this 6 storey building will not destroy the character of this neighborhood.

[BrasilnSC]

Vista Center will be 5 stories, the Hilton is what, 9 stories? They are not going to change the character of the Vista. That's why I think FPS will fit in 5-pts, especially since there are already several 6+ story buildings in the village. This is a great project, mixed use, with parking. It can't get any better than that.

[Doug L]

One of the things I like about Toronto, Canada, is the mixture of high rises in with many of the neighborhoods. There is the usual cluster of high rises in the center of the city; but out in the neighborhoods you will have a mix of single homes, town houses, then right smack in the middle of all the squatty buildings there will be a 20/25 story condo or apartment house. What character, what class, what an excellent exclamation point to accent an area.

My only suggestion to Columbia is, to quote Phyllis Diller, "GROW UP!" and stop thinking so small townish.

[waccamatt]

One of the things I like about Toronto, Canada, is the mixture of high rises in with many of the neighborhoods. There is the usual cluster of high rises in the center of the city; but out in the neighborhoods you will have a mix of single homes, town houses, then right smack in the middle of all the squatty buildings there will be a 20/25 story condo or apartment house. What character, what class, what an excellent exclamation point to accent an area.

My only suggestion to Columbia is, to quote Phyllis Diller, "GROW UP!" and stop thinking so small townish.

LOL, I work with a Phyllis Diller look-alike. I'd love to have a skyscraper in my neighborhood.

[CorgiMatt]

Actually, I worry that Center Vista is going to block most of the Meridian tower as you're driving up Gervais Street between Pulaski and Gadsden. The top floors of Center Vista had better look good to justify blocking Meridian from that vantage point. In a hilly city such as Columbia, blocking views that we've become accustomed to is going to happen when you start building higher, including Five Points. We have to consider the view we're giving up from different vantage points versus the view we get when something new goes up.

[Doug L]

Actually, I worry that Center Vista is going to block most of the Meridian tower as you're driving up Gervais Street between Pulaski and Gadsden. The top floors of Center Vista had better look good to justify blocking Meridian from that vantage point. In a hilly city such as Columbia, blocking views that we've become accustomed to is going to happen when you start building higher, including Five Points. We have to consider the view we're giving up from different vantage points versus the view we get when something new goes up.

Again, small town thinking. We are not loosing anything. We will be gaining! We are gaining more character, more volume, more value, more to enjoy and certainly not less!

[Spartan]

Actually, I worry that Center Vista is going to block most of the Meridian tower as you're driving up Gervais Street between Pulaski and Gadsden. The top floors of Center Vista had better look good to justify blocking Meridian from that vantage point. In a hilly city such as Columbia, blocking views that we've become accustomed to is going to happen when you start building higher, including Five Points. We have to consider the view we're giving up from different vantage points versus the view we get when something new goes up.

IMO the solution is to build taller buildings on Main.

[waccamatt]

IMO the solution is to build taller buildings on Main.

Exactly!

[krazeeboi]

I'm saying I think the character of the neighborhood as a whole needs to be factored in to the height of some supposed new building. The height of its immediate neighbors is a key factor too, but I don't think it should be the determinate one. In the Vista, there are no highrises, though there are many nearby on Main Street. IMO, that is one of the best characteristics of the Vista, so putting highrise there would change the character as you said. I think that if you build a highrise in Five Points that it would detract less than it would in the Vista. Obviously it would depend on the height. I'm not suggesting that anything major be built in 5pts but I do think that this 6 storey building will not destroy the character of this neighborhood.

I don't think this building will destroy the character of Five Points either, but it will significantly change the feel of the central part of the district. That alone is worthy of dialogue, as such discussion will help to guide future development from a grassroots perspective.

[krazeeboi]

Vista Center will be 5 stories, the Hilton is what, 9 stories? They are not going to change the character of the Vista. That's why I think FPS will fit in 5-pts, especially since there are already several 6+ story buildings in the village. This is a great project, mixed use, with parking. It can't get any better than that.

The Hilton is set back a good bit from the traditional storefronts lining Gervais, which is why its height doesn't take away from the feel of the Vista. It would be a different story if it were built where Center Vista is to be built. The Five Points correlation here is Finlay House. If it were located where Kenny's was, it would be horribly out of scale.

All I'm saying is that I think the people who are concerned about the height of FPS are justified in doing so (although I don't really have a problem with the height). Their concerns are valid. If anything, it shows that the people are concerned and engaged, even if we disagree with them.

[krazeeboi]

Actually, I worry that Center Vista is going to block most of the Meridian tower as you're driving up Gervais Street between Pulaski and Gadsden. The top floors of Center Vista had better look good to justify blocking Meridian from that vantage point. In a hilly city such as Columbia, blocking views that we've become accustomed to is going to happen when you start building higher, including Five Points. We have to consider the view we're giving up from different vantage points versus the view we get when something new goes up.

It's just a natural part of the evolution of a skyline.

[CorgiMatt]

The same could be said of the Five Points skyline. In either district, though, the question becomes one of whether we currently have an overall look from certain vantage points that are worth preserving, especially if there's a chance that whatever takes away the view from certain vantage point will be less attractive than the view was.

[krazeeboi]

^Personally, I think other factors are more important, such as maximizing the use of certain plots of land. I think that's what should prevail when it comes to projects such as FPS and Center Vista.

[krazeeboi]

Whatever plans there were for the parcel at Gervais and Harden have been scrapped. The reason the developers (Hendon Properties of Atlanta) gave for pulling out of the land deal was because the master plan would put too many restrictions on parking and building height to make the project profitable enough. Considering that this firm is more known for its strip malls than its urban developments, I'd say there's no love lost here at all.

[Spartan]

Interesting. Apparently it would have had to be 8 stories to be profitable. The article talks about heigh restrictions in Five Points, which is news to me (I didn't know they had been finalized). So does anyone know of a map or some document that specifies what and where the height restrictions are?

[waccamatt]

If we avoided a suburban development at that location, this is good news. I think an 8-story development would have been fine, though. It is not in the center of Five Points so it wouldn't have affected the "village" part of Five Points.

[krazeeboi]

^Agreed.

[Spartan]

I've skimmed the Future Five Master Plan, and I can't find anything that specifies height limits for parcels or for the area as a whole other than some general statements about scale.

[BrasilnSC]

I agree with Matt. An 8 story building there wouldn't affect the village feel. That parcel is already so disconnected from the rest of 5-pts, thanks to the Food Lion strip mall, so a height restriction there doesn't make too much sense (at least not the current or proposed restriction). I think an 8 + story building would be pretty cool and fit really well there. It could also be a corner stone for that side of 5 pts.

Edited January 22, 2008 by BrasilnSC

[digital_sandlapper]

I agree with Matt. An 8 story building there wouldn't affect the village feel. That parcel is already so disconnected from the rest of 5-pts, thanks to the Food Lion strip mall, so a height restriction there doesn't make too much sense (at least not the current or proposed restriction). I think an 8 + story building would be pretty cool and fit really well there. It could also be a corner stone for that side of 5 pts.

Right you are, Brasil. ^^

[krazeeboi]

The city's Planning Commission voted to approve the Future Five masterplan. The Columbia Star has a pretty detailed write-up about the meeting. The commission voted unanimously for the mixed- use district (MX- 1) text amendment, and the 5P (Five Points) Overlay District was approved. By a vote of 6- 3, the map amendment rezoning request was approved as presented. There was some discussion over whether lower Five Points could have the same 75- foot height potential, but the 50- foot limit held for lower Five Points.

[Spartan]

So that means the 6 storey FPS building is out.

[waccamatt]

So that means the 6 storey FPS building is out.

I thought it was already approved in principal. Besides, can't exceptions be approved?