Five Points

[waccamatt]

You are wrong! Both/either can go amuck.

I agree; while there are alot of good things about capitalism, there are alot of bad things, too. It breeds an environment of winning/making money at all costs, regardless of the affect on others.

[Spartan]

The reality is that too much of either is a bad thing. I think that we do a pretty good job of blending the two in this country.

[krazeeboi]

Question: Do you guys think that with the redevelopment of Five Points, especially the residential aspect, more of the mom-and-pop stores could be replaced with chains? I ask because a neighborhood in DC (Dupont Circle) is going through this very same thing now; the neighborhood gets "hip," commercial rents skyrocket, the local stores are forced out, and the chains rush in. I know that DC and Columbia are two entirely different beasts, but in a free-market society, similar trends can take root in two different kinds of cities.

[waccamatt]

Question: Do you guys think that with the redevelopment of Five Points, especially the residential aspect, more of the mom-and-pop stores could be replaced with chains? I ask because a neighborhood in DC (Dupont Circle) is going through this very same thing now; the neighborhood gets "hip," commercial rents skyrocket, the local stores are forced out, and the chains rush in. I know that DC and Columbia are two entirely different beasts, but in a free-market society, similar trends can take root in two different kinds of cities.

That does happen to some extent, but it the locally-owned business manages themselves correctly, they should be able to thrive even in a high rent district.

[GamecockEngineer]

Question: Do you guys think that with the redevelopment of Five Points, especially the residential aspect, more of the mom-and-pop stores could be replaced with chains? I ask because a neighborhood in DC (Dupont Circle) is going through this very same thing now; the neighborhood gets "hip," commercial rents skyrocket, the local stores are forced out, and the chains rush in. I know that DC and Columbia are two entirely different beasts, but in a free-market society, similar trends can take root in two different kinds of cities.

Wasn't it the Mom and Pop stores in 5 points that were a major factor in coming up with the master plan?

Edited August 15, 2006 by GamecockEngineer

[Spartan]

Wasn't it the Mom and Pop stores in 5 points that were a major factor in coming up with the master plan?

I think so.

[krazeeboi]

So can you see the potential irony here?

[Spartan]

You'd be blind not to

But lets not jump the gun here. The chain stores that are there are far out numbered by the other stores.

[krazeeboi]

The same was true in Dupont Circle about six years ago. And while the locally-owned stores are still in the majority, the chains have slowly but surely been on the rise. I guess it's almost unrealistic in today's society to expect a district to consist of 100% locally-owned stores.

[803metlife]

5pts is just that area with so much potential to stretch it's boundaries. Residential high rises will be a + for this area.Can't wait to the vista is completely developed and has the same opportunities that 5pts have except residential high rises because the height restrictions killed that. I would love to see a late night Movie theather developed in 5pts.

[krazeeboi]

It will take YEARS for the Vista to completely fill out. The Vista has come a long way, but it's still got TONS of vacant land available.

[krazeeboi]

From the latest edition of the Free Times:

Historic tensions among Five Points merchants might be reaching a new high. At City Council's Aug. 9 meeting, planning director Chip Land said he is trying to determine how much support exists among the merchants for a special design district to preserve Five Points' character. Councilman Kirkman Finlay, who owns a business in the area, said two groups have different ideas about Five Points' future. In a follow-up interview, Finlay says one group is the Five Points Association, the other is bar owners, and they have divergent interests. While tensions have long existed, he says, "I think this other group is coalescing."

I wonder what these "differing interests" are? It would have been nice to have more specifics. I'm sure it's more than just one group is in favor of the revitalization plan and one is against it. Maybe it has something to do with the fear of invading chains that I mentioned earlier?

[Spartan]

Its an interesting balance of bars vs everything else. You don't want the place to become over-run with bars. But then, you have to make room for new busineses too. My guess is that be business association would want to preserve what is there now and avoid letting too many chains into the area.

[waccamatt]

That would be fine with me; chains are of little use if there is a locally owned business that can provide the same merchandise.

[CorgiMatt]

Saluda Avenue in Five Points flooded again last night during our torrential lightning and rain storm. Seven inches were reported to be inside some of the stores. It just goes to show that even a $30 million streetscaping project can't make a swamp not a swamp. I can hear it now - business owners down there blaming the city. Eyewitnesses were said to have seen debris clogging a drain. It must have from up the street. Five Points was Columbia's first commercial suburban development. A swamp was filled in to make it. Mother Nature will always reclaim it from time to time.

[krazeeboi]

You do have a point, CorgiMatt.

[waccamatt]

That's true; with all the open land I wonder why they built 5 Points on a swamp back in the 20's? Once the streetscaping project is done the flooding shouldn't be quite as severe.

[GamecockEngineer]

That's true; with all the open land I wonder why they built 5 Points on a swamp back in the 20's? Once the streetscaping project is done the flooding shouldn't be quite as severe.

Ultimately, Rocky Branch (the drainage channel that goes from 5 Points by the Blatt under the intersection of Whaley and S. Main and through Olympia) needs a lot of work that could help relieve the flooding in 5 points. It doesn't really matter how big or nice or new the pipes are in 5 Points, if the downstream conditions can't handle the loading, the water's still going to back up and flood. Granted, the area will almost always flood during certain storms, but it should flood at a much lower frequency if Rocky Branch is rehabbed.

[waccamatt]

You're right, the section of the creek through Maxcy Gregg Park really can't carry that much water. It's fun to watch after a storm, though, lol.

[Doug L]

You're right, the section of the creek through Maxcy Gregg Park really can't carry that much water. It's fun to watch after a storm, though, lol.

I live in a position where I can watch Lake Maxcy Gregg rise almost every time we have a thunder storm of any duration. It is amusing to watch the drivers along Blossom Street pause, stop, gawk, then turn around and flee.

Columbia needs to take a page out of Los Angeles' book and urbanize Rocky Branch Creek. Any parts of that creed not in the city should be condemned, annexed, and then the whole thing urbanized to carry off the amounts of water that are expected in a 500 year flood. With the continuing pace of development in Columbia the problems with Rocky Branch Creek will only increasingly get worse, much worse.

[Spartan]

I live in a position where I can watch Lake Maxcy Gregg rise almost every time we have a thunder storm of any duration. It is amusing to watch the drivers along Blossom Street pause, stop, gawk, then turn around and flee.

Columbia needs to take a page out of Los Angeles' book and urbanize Rocky Branch Creek. Any parts of that creed not in the city should be condemned, annexed, and then the whole thing urbanized to carry off the amounts of water that are expected in a 500 year flood. With the continuing pace of development in Columbia the problems with Rocky Branch Creek will only increasingly get worse, much worse.

Umm, what? You want to turn that creek into that disgusting thing they have in LA? That is by far the worst idea I have ever heard. That thing is a death trap, and they always film it to represent the worst of parts of urbanity. There is no engineering that can tame nature, especially water.

What you need to do is restor the natural flood planes that used to exist. You need to limit development along lowlying areas so that flooding doesnt become an issue to start with.

Just so we are all clear, this is what he is talkign about:

This is by far one of LA's biggest mistakes. It is my undestanding that they are trying to REMOVE this monstrosity.

[BrasilnSC]

I don't know if he means urbanizing it to that extent. There are some parts of the creek that have already been urbanized like behind the Blatt and the Engineering building (300 Main). I don't think the entire creek should be urbanized as it would destroy the nature of Maxy Gregg and Rocky Branch Parks, but something needs to be done. The creek needs to be widened in some areas, larger culverts need to be placed under roads, and retention ponds need to be built. 5 points will always be in prone to flooding, but this could help. No matter what, it's going to cost a pretty penny to fix.

Edited August 22, 2006 by BrasilnSC

[CorgiMatt]

I don't know if he means urbanizing it to that extent. There are some parts of the creek that have already been urbanized like behind the Blatt and the Engineering building (300 Main). I don't think the entire creek should be urbanized as it would destroy the nature of Maxy Gregg and Rocky Branch Parks, but something needs to be done. The creek needs to be widened in some areas, larger culverts need to be placed under roads, and retention ponds need to be built. 5 points will always be in prone to flooding, but this could help. No matter what, it's going to cost a pretty penny to fix.

It would be a more natural looking upgrade I am sure, with walking trails and as many preserved trees as possible along the creek.

[GamecockEngineer]

It would be a more natural looking upgrade I am sure, with walking trails and as many preserved trees as possible along the creek.

I'll try to get some pics posted of the little sugar creek greenway that is being done up here in Charlotte. The creek is very simmilar to Rocky Branch. If Cola would do something simmilar, they could tie it into the three rivers greenway, and really get a great system going...

[Doug L]

Umm, what? You want to turn that creek into that disgusting thing they have in LA? That is by far the worst idea I have ever heard. That thing is a death trap, and they always film it to represent the worst of parts of urbanity. There is no engineering that can tame nature, especially water.

What you need to do is restor the natural flood planes that used to exist. You need to limit development along lowlying areas so that flooding doesnt become an issue to start with.

Just so we are all clear, this is what he is talkign about:

This is by far one of LA's biggest mistakes. It is my undestanding that they are trying to REMOVE this monstrosity.

Let's be reasonable! We don't have the same quantity of water to be moved that LA has, therefore, we don't need the concrete gashes in our landscape that LA has. My point is that band aid approaches to the problem is futile. Let's do it right the first time. There is no reason we can't put almost if not all of the culverts underground here with landscaping on top. Items that are utilitarian in nature do NOT have to be ugly and disgusting.