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MJLO

Gay Marriage Issue = Political Pandering

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The president has brought up the gay marriage issue again. Does anyone else wonder why he didn't talk about gay marriage for two years. Then as soon as an election comes around where republicans are in trouble, and his aproval rating is hovering around 30 percent. He brings it up. I have little opinion on the issue of gay marriage. It doesnt affect me either way, I'm never going to marry a man, and I don't care if anyone else does. My point in saying this is not to turn this into a gay marriage debate, so please refrain from discussing it here. But rather to question what you guys think about the way the president runs politics. Anytime the man starts getting in trouble he runs to his base. That would be fine, but he has never fulfilled any of his promises. He's a moderate but somehow he fools the far right into thinking that he's one of them. Are Evangelicals really that naive? Can they not see the forest for the trees? He was in trouble in the last election, so he started pushing social issues that really motivates the moral right wing. But then after he's over the hump, the issues die. Now that he's got no support he's running back with these issues. Distracting from coverage of real issues.

I have little faith in the federal gov't. The corruption is so rampant, and politics are so strong I feel like this country is wasting away. I feel like I have no voice. I am not sure really why we went to war with Iraq. I feel it was a mistake, George Bush and his administration felt it was something they had to do, and every reason they gave turned out to be wrong. I want my president to address the issues of this country. Issues and debacles that he has created. Instead of creating smoke and mirrors, to fool self righteous people who drive minivans and listen to rejoice rock.

I don't care about gay marriage, I don't care about how much the president prays or whether or not a religious monument should be in a public facility. I care about taking care of things that are ripping this country apart. So stop skirting this issue George Bush. Stop trying to fool the hicks. Do what you were elected to do. I've decided to vote Democrat for the first time, even if out of spite.

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What do you expect from a party that panders in hate, discrimination and bends over backwards to religious zeliots? They can't run on their own miserable record, so they go and bash Gays.

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I have little faith in the federal gov't. The corruption is so rampant, and politics are so strong I feel like this country is wasting away. I feel like I have no voice. I am not sure really why we went to war with Iraq. I feel it was a mistake, George Bush and his administration felt it was something they had to do, and every reason they gave turned out to be wrong. I want my president to address the issues of this country. Issues and debacles that he has created. Instead of creating smoke and mirrors, to fool self righteous people who drive minivans and listen to rejoice rock.

I feel the same way, it's like there is nothing that can be done to stop them. As angry as I get at the Feds over what they are doing, at the end of the day it's just like "Screw it," because nothing will change anyways. I honestly beleive that if things don't begin to change we may be looking at a forceful takeover of the government within my lifetime, things are getting pretty bad and all signs point to to things getting worse concerning the government's attitude towards it's citizens rights.

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What do you expect from a party that panders in hate, discrimination and bends over backwards to religious zeliots? They can't run on their own miserable record, so they go and bash Gays.

Well that is one position to hold. But I don't think that, that is what they stand for. Case in point, asside from talking big, name one thing they have actually done, in the name of hate and discrimination. They have accomplished nothing. George Bush has done nothing in the name of social conservatism. He doesn't walk the walk. If any thing he is a limp wristed big gov't moderate. I prefer the John Mccains of the party. Although I think he's as crooked as the rest of them, and I don't think Democrats are any better I have no idea at all what their stance is on anything other than to obstruct the other side.

I know that some people say this gov't is a theocracy. I just don't believe it. I won't believe in a god that picks sides. He's not on the side of any war, if there truly is a god and he created everything, why would he be devisive and choose some of his children over others. Religion has no right dabbling in federal policy. But there are enough people in this country to fool into thinking that it does. I truly believe that if it were up to the religious right, that the gov't would prosecute people for "sinning".

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When the president is an idiot, he has to resort to trivial issues to fire up his base. Once again, he is hunkering down into an "Us vs. Them" mentality. I am against discrimination toward any group of people. Like most uneducated zealots, when it comes to intellect, the president is a few books short of a library. Live and let live. I am reminded of the bumper sticker that says

"Don't like gay marriage? Then don't have one!" :rofl:

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LOL that's awsome, I want one of those.

and then I want the gov't to stop trying to skirt issues!

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I find it sad that people in this country can let petty issues like gay marriage decide their votes. And yes, I think the issue of gay marriage is quite petty, mainly because it is so ridiculous to me that people would actually be against it. Like honestly, has there ever been such an issue made out of something that would have such little effect on the objector's lives? I don't think so.

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Of course beating up on Gays gets people to forget this....

160406perspective.jpg

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Well that is one position to hold. But I don't think that, that is what they stand for. Case in point, asside from talking big, name one thing they have actually done, in the name of hate and discrimination. They have accomplished nothing.

in the senate committee, they voted exactly along party lines to bring the gay marriage debate to the full senate (where it has absolutely very little chance at getting a majority, nevermind the 2/3 vote to send it to the house, where, if it did for some reason make it pass the senate, it will fail and never go to the states).

in other words, yes, i do think the gay marriage issue is just a political stunt by a party desperate for votes (knowing that they could lose congress this election). i also think it's a stunt to get the public's mine off of the other mistakes they made... iraq, katrina (with the upcoming hurricane season, which is supposed to be bad for the NE), etc...

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Bush's politics are completely predictable if you just watch and listen.

Bush's ratings take a dive because of wiretapping? Bush's wiretapping program supposedly thwarts several terrorist attacks including one on Los Angeles.. an attack that Los Angeles didn't even know about.

Bush's ratings continue to take a dive? He starts harping on about stopping gay marriage.. sending this to the constitution? The man is an idiot.

Bush comes up with all sorts of things like the "Clean skies initiative" that will "clean" our skies by allowing more pollution. Or "no Child Left Behind" that leaves plenty of children left behind. Minnesota considered letting all federal funding for schools go just so they could ignore these federal mandates because Minnesota's REPUBLICAN governor felt that Bush's mandates were holding our schools back.

I just get too fired up by talking about this.. the man needs to go!

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As far as the people who are most active in campaigning for this amendment, both at the federal level and at the state level, there is a quotation by Shakespeare which comes to mind:

Methinks you protest a little too much! :rofl:

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Bush's ratings continue to take a dive? He starts harping on about stopping gay marriage.. sending this to the constitution? The man is an idiot.

Actually I think the man is pretty smart. Reserve the word "idiot" for the people who continue to support his polices.

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Actually I think the man is pretty smart. Reserve the word "idiot" for the people who continue to support his polices.

The guy is a fraud. During his whole Presidency he has tried to make himself seem like the 2nd coming of Reagan, down to the "cowboy" ranch. The gay marriage amendment is something he knows will never pass, I think it's only floating out there to appease the religious right that felt betrayed after the Terri Schiavo affair.

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It is the same thing with the proposed flag burning ammendment he spoke about earlier. Uh..., have there been any American flags burned in protest in this country in the past few years!? Maybe a handful but it is a rather iron-fisted solution to a non-existent problem. I'm offended (or rather, would be since I have never witnessed anyone burning an American flag in protest) but I also immediately think that this is a symbol of freedom and this act is also a symbol of the great freedoms (free speech-anyone? anyone?) that this symbol of America represents.

This whole "protection of marriage act" issue now has a Fred Phelpsian madness rant to it now. All this "the sky is falling" around issues that makes the average thinking person roll their eyes in disbelief at the blatent pandering to the "base" while this government has so utterly failed in addressing the issues that affect it's citizens and the world at large.

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Yeah i'd say it's a calculated move. But I get annoyed when people talk as if his policies are his own. I don't believe anyone who says that he makes his own decisions. This is the result of a political strategist, trying to rally the troops before the battle. But if you give the same speach over and over again. The troops start losing faith.

Everyone knows there will be no constitutional ammendment. It won't even make it out of the senate. George Bush knows there won't be a constitutional ammendment. He doesn't even care about the issue of gay marriage. What he does know, is that as soon as he says the word gay, a whole bunch of fundamentalist christians stand up straight, and go bad bad bad. If you ask me from a biblical standpoint if you're polarize the homosexuals, you have to polarize anyone who has sexual relations outside " the plan of god". It's the hypocracy and the double standard that those people have that gets me. If you're going to consider it a sin, fine, sin is sin is sin. But the very book that christians go by consider it all the same damn sin.

But it's the fact that the administration uses the issue to hide behind the things actually going on that makes my blood boil.

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It is the same thing with the proposed flag burning ammendment he spoke about earlier. Uh..., have there been any American flags burned in protest in this country in the past few years!? Maybe a handful but it is a rather iron-fisted solution to a non-existent problem. I'm offended (or rather, would be since I have never witnessed anyone burning an American flag in protest) but I also immediately think that this is a symbol of freedom and this act is also a symbol of the great freedoms (free speech-anyone? anyone?) that this symbol of America represents.

This whole "protection of marriage act" issue now has a Fred Phelpsian madness rant to it now. All this "the sky is falling" around issues that makes the average thinking person roll their eyes in disbelief at the blatent pandering to the "base" while this government has so utterly failed in addressing the issues that affect it's citizens and the world at large.

i think the whole flag burning thing is funny... they tell you to burn a flag to dispose of it after it's all beaten up.

Yeah i'd say it's a calculated move. But I get annoyed when people talk as if his policies are his own. I don't believe anyone who says that he makes his own decisions. This is the result of a political strategist, trying to rally the troops before the battle. But if you give the same speach over and over again. The troops start losing faith.

Everyone knows there will be no constitutional ammendment. It won't even make it out of the senate. George Bush knows there won't be a constitutional ammendment. He doesn't even care about the issue of gay marriage. What he does know, is that as soon as he says the word gay, a whole bunch of fundamentalist christians stand up straight, and go bad bad bad. If you ask me from a biblical standpoint if you're polarize the homosexuals, you have to polarize anyone who has sexual relations outside " the plan of god". It's the hypocracy and the double standard that those people have that gets me. If you're going to consider it a sin, fine, sin is sin is sin. But the very book that christians go by consider it all the same damn sin.

But it's the fact that the administration uses the issue to hide behind the things actually going on that makes my blood boil.

the sin of homosexuality is sex that can not result in procreation (using the rhythm method is acceptable and not a sin). the fundies think that it's a sin to be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex, yet the bible says nothing about that. so, from the correct sin, almost any heterosexual is guilty of it... any form of birth control (including vasectomy and getting the tubes tied), masturbation, anal, and oral sex are all sins. the catholic church, while not the least anti-gay christian group, does not consider homosexuality a sin, only the actions (which are performed regularly by heterosexuals). i'd be willing to bet bush is guilty of this sin (although it really grosses me out to think of it).

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My point was not to define sin. I was always taught ( not that I adhear to it) that the only permissable sexual acts, were an act between a married man and woman. What I was saying, is if that is the "christian standard" that they need to focus on all of it, instead of waging a war against just homosexuals, it's hypocracy by definition. But back to topic on hand, I pray that these people in this base, see this ploy for what it is.

Leave the gays alone, and fix this country. Even if there were nothing else to fix, gays wanting to get married, never threatened anyones family. It hurts NOONE.

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My point was not to define sin. I was always taught ( not that I adhear to it) that the only permissable sexual acts, were an act between a married man and woman. What I was saying, is if that is the "christian standard" that they need to focus on all of it, instead of waging a war against just homosexuals, it's hypocracy by definition. But back to topic on hand, I pray that these people in this base, see this ploy for what it is.

Leave the gays alone, and fix this country. Even if there were nothing else to fix, gays wanting to get married, never threatened anyones family. It hurts NOONE.

agreed... there are much more important issues to deal with than 2 guys or 2 girls getting married.

yes, i was taught that the only permissible sex act is between a married mand and woman, but that's because it has the potential for procreation. and it's the sin of fornication if you do it outside of marriage. so by definition, you can't have homosexual sex. but the orientation is not a sin, just the sex act. but they aren't worried about that. they're worried about the sanctity of marriage... which is ridiculous considering marriage in the US is about more than kids (many couples don't want kids and will never have them, many more get married because they had a kid, and many more get married and then divorce).

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What do you expect from a party that panders in hate, discrimination and bends over backwards to religious zeliots? They can't run on their own miserable record, so they go and bash Gays.

I'm a Republican and I'm against organized religion and do not bash gays. I also don't believe in hate.

Such a blanket statement about a particular party is disturbing. Even I know that the entire Democrat party isn't a bunch of ambulance-chasing, Bush-hating, tree-hugging vegetarians so I would never make such a statement about that party as a whole. Summing up an entire party in a few words like you did shows a severe lack of character and shows that you want nothing more than to push your agenda on everyone. And the thought that there there may be some feeble-minded portion of the population out there who would believe every bit of your one-sided rubbish is also disturbing.

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My point was not to define sin. I was always taught ( not that I adhear to it) that the only permissable sexual acts, were an act between a married man and woman. What I was saying, is if that is the "christian standard" that they need to focus on all of it, instead of waging a war against just homosexuals, it's hypocracy by definition. But back to topic on hand, I pray that these people in this base, see this ploy for what it is.

Leave the gays alone, and fix this country. Even if there were nothing else to fix, gays wanting to get married, never threatened anyones family. It hurts NOONE.

Totally agree! :thumbsup:

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I'm a Republican and I'm against organized religion and do not bash gays. I also don't believe in hate.

Such a blanket statement about a particular party is disturbing. Even I know that the entire Democrat party isn't a bunch of ambulance-chasing, Bush-hating, tree-hugging vegetarians so I would never make such a statement about that party as a whole. Summing up an entire party in a few words like you did shows a severe lack of character and shows that you want nothing more than to push your agenda on everyone. And the thought that there there may be some feeble-minded portion of the population out there who would believe every bit of your one-sided rubbish is also disturbing.

Ok I will say I am wrong about any Republican Senator that does not vote for this Amendment in the Senate. Get back to me with the talley once they have finished wasting our time on this issue of hate again. If Republicans were so honorable, they would be outraged and expressing the fact their leaders and their President have even suggested an amendment to the constitution that is obviously nothing more than Gay Bashing to appeal to Religious Extremists. Where are they? I don't think it can be summed up better than that. Call it a blanket statement if you like, but it is also the facts.

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Ok I will say I am wrong about any Republican Senator that does not vote for this Amendment in the Senate.

Would you say the same if a Democate voted for the amendment?

Call it a blanket statement if you like, but it is also the facts.

Not to pick bones with you Metro, but I don't see any "facts" to support your statement in the above post. You and I are not Senators (or maybe you are, I don't know) and cannot say for "fact" that we know what they are thinking or doing. They are an elected offical to do a job that we elected them for. If they do not perform to our standards than we elect someone else whom we think will do better. I do not agree with the admendment nor do I think it will pass by anymeans. As MJLO and others have pointed out, this is a tactic to try and rally voters for the election year. Why Republician campaigns are doing this, again I cannot tell you for "fact" but my "opinion" is that is worked before so we continue to do what works for us in the past.

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Would you say the same if a Democate voted for the amendment?

Not to pick bones with you Metro, but I don't see any "facts" to support your statement in the above post. You and I are not Senators (or maybe you are, I don't know) and cannot say for "fact" that we know what they are thinking or doing. They are an elected offical to do a job that we elected them for. If they do not perform to our standards than we elect someone else whom we think will do better. I do not agree with the admendment nor do I think it will pass by anymeans. As MJLO and others have pointed out, this is a tactic to try and rally voters for the election year. Why Republician campaigns are doing this, again I cannot tell you for "fact" but my "opinion" is that is worked before so we continue to do what works for us in the past.

it's my understanding, based on what i've heard from the republican leadership (those who are there to represent the republican party) that they are all against gay marriage. now, i am not saying that people who are registered republicans are against it, but the party (which is elected officials and represented by the leaders of those people, who one can safely say is the president and the top congressional republicans) is against it as much as it is against abortion.

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I don't think they are all against it. Now i'm not sure of it. But i don't think every Republican in Congress is uniform in that stance.

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I don't think they are all against it. Now i'm not sure of it. But i don't think every Republican in Congress is uniform in that stance.

in their stance against gay marriage or in favor of the amendment? it's 2 different things here. not all republican congressmen are in favor of the amendment, however, i think it's safe to say that they're all against gay marriage. or at least that's what they'll say in public.

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