The US, its Conspiracy, its Failures. and its LIES!

[A2]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848

Sorry. Geroge you out to be ousted, tarred and feathered. This is just the tip of the ice burg as to the Biggest Hoax in history. Not 911, but rather our US Government.

Watch with an OPEN mind, and please understand that I am just posting this to save anyone blindly trusting what you read and hear. This Government is running our country and our Economy into the ground. God have mercy on those inoccent people we kill and those that we have invaded for the sake of our own agenda.

A2

[damus]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848

Sorry. Geroge you out to be ousted, tarred and feathered. This is just the tip of the ice burg as to the Biggest Hoax in history. Not 911, but rather our US Government.

Watch with an OPEN mind, and please understand that I am just posting this to save anyone blindly trusting what you read and hear. This Government is running our country and our Economy into the ground. God have mercy on those inoccent people we kill and those that we have invaded for the sake of our own agenda.

A2

I've seen some of this conspiracy stuff about this. Alex Jones paints the government and whoever is in charge as a traitorous New World Order enabler or architect going back to I think Eisenhower... I put this in the same category

How true were Jones' videos about the drills where they took over communities via martial law? www.abovetopsecret.com has pictures of concentration camps that the US government is supposedly building, mostly with closed military bases. Anyone know anything about those and/or live close enough to verify deny their existance?

[A2]

I've seen some of his stuff about this. Alex Jones paints the government and whoever is in charge as a traitorous New World Order enabler or architect going back to I think Eisenhower... I put this in the same category

How true were Jones' videos about the drills where they took over communities via martial law? www.abovetopsecret.com has pictures of concentration camps that the US government is supposedly building, mostly with closed military bases. Anyone know anything about those and/or live close enough to verify deny their existance?

Great question I have no clue....But I have continued to doubt what the Government is spinning. All I am saying is that things are not always as they seem. I have my doubts of the current scandals going on in the news now. Terrorism spreads fear, and by fear , people can be ruled and controlled.

Now I am not suggesting that people overseas don't want to horrible things to happen to the US, quite the contrary, but rather that the US is conveniently using this card to promote war.

This, in turns, juices up the failing economy.

What is so funny is that the terror attack on 911 was in the midst of one of the largest downturns in the markets. The Nasdaq at its peak was well over 5000, but in the first of Septemer it was around 1500! It seems to me that everytime the economy & markets starts to falter, War becomes the object of desire to rectify the ill fated consequenses.

It is just shear herecy. I guess money really is the root of all evil.

This time I think the US's bluff will be called. Be prepared for a fallout in the dollar and a change in the way we live our lives. The day of reckoning is coming and it will not be pretty.

Ask yourself one question:

Why is it when we are starting to enter a serious downturn , by all accounts & economic data, that the media and the US Government is threatining war again. Consequently terrorist cells are being discovered in Torronto?

Simple:

It induces fear and justifies the the notion for war, and an excuse to print more money to sustain our bubble of an economy.

A2

[damus]

Ask yourself one question:

Why is it when we are starting to enter a serious downturn , by all accounts & economic data, that the media and the US Government is threatining war again. Consequently terrorist cells are being discovered in Torronto?

Simple:

It induces fear and justifies the the notion for war, and an excuse to print more money to sustain our bubble of an economy.

A2

What is this about Toronto? It has not been on the news... I would assume they'd look to see something that would be noticed by most Americans. Most Americans don't even know about the riots in France back in October or who the Prime Minister of Canada, or for use of a more important country, Germany is.

This is a time when, according to the Bush Doctrine, we should be attacking Iran and North Korea. The guys in charge right now are politically weak from the war, which I don't think is going perfectly but is very far from a "disaster" as most people think it is.

The economy was in a "bubble" when the Nasdaq was at 5000. People were throwing away the rules of sound investing and throwing money at mostly Internet companies that were not being run properly or even making a profit. At the same time, the accounting scandals were brewing. Considering the "bubble" pop, the accounting scandals, and September 11 I think our economy is stronger than ever. The country has been experiencing "boom times" for what 4 years now, with the 2000-2002 downturn as a relative hiccup..

[A2]

What is this about Toronto? It has not been on the news... I would assume they'd look to see something that would be noticed by most Americans. Most Americans don't even know about the riots in France back in October or who the Prime Minister of Canada, or for use of a more important country, Germany is.

This is a time when, according to the Bush Doctrine, we should be attacking Iran and North Korea. The guys in charge right now are politically weak from the war, which I don't think is going perfectly but is very far from a "disaster" as most people think it is.

The economy was in a "bubble" when the Nasdaq was at 5000. People were throwing away the rules of sound investing and throwing money at mostly Internet companies that were not being run properly or even making a profit. At the same time, the accounting scandals were brewing. Considering the "bubble" pop, the accounting scandals, and September 11 I think our economy is stronger than ever. The country has been experiencing "boom times" for what 4 years now, with the 2000-2002 downturn as a relative hiccup..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13153272/

Toronto News^^

As for the economy don't hold your breath. The economy is in a VERY fragile state. The US debt is the Highest it has ever been, the US consumer is maxed out, forclusres are skyrocketing, and your US dollar is just weeks away from a free fall.

Commodities are running 200 of the prices they were just two years ago.

If you want a true snap shot of where we are heading look at Gold, Oil, and where Interest rates go. That will give anyone a picture of where we are headed.

The equity and bond markets are all showing this. The things that are going to happen in the next few years can not be described in a short UP post, but time will reveal the true nature of how bad things will be.

As for the overall markets the Elliot Wave takes the DOW way down.

Think DOW 5000

S&P to around 400

Nasdaq 800

by 2009-2010

As for Bubbles we have not even begin to let all the air out of this puppy.

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/intchart/...jia&time=&freq=

We have just witness the largest Double Top in the Dow Jones History in Mid May.

A2

[peaceloveunderstanding]

What is so funny is that the terror attack on 911 was in the midst of one of the largest downturns in the markets. The Nasdaq at its peak was well over 5000, but in the first of Septemer it was around 1500! It seems to me that everytime the economy & markets starts to falter, War becomes the object of desire to rectify the ill fated consequenses.

So they concocted this grand scheme and pulled it off in 10 days?

Or maybe the powers that be all planned to pull out of the markets and and and and...

An argument for a plane in fact hitting the Pentagon:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pe...e_evidence.html

An argument against the controlled demolition of the WTCs.

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/

Good Scientific American article on the whole thing:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID...E1583414B7F0000

I always say that burden of proving guilt rests on the the accuser. The evidence these moonbats provide, while interesting, can be disproved with simpler less emotional language, less hysteria, and approach. I see strawmen but no real substance in these and most other conspiracy theories.

[A2]

So they concocted this grand scheme and pulled it off in 10 days?

Or maybe the powers that be all planned to pull out of the markets and and and and...

An argument for a plane in fact hitting the Pentagon:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pe...e_evidence.html

An argument against the controlled demolition of the WTCs.

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/

Good Scientific American article on the whole thing:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID...E1583414B7F0000

I always say that burden of proving guilt rests on the the accuser. The evidence these moonbats provide, while interesting, can be disproved with simpler less emotional language and approach. I see strawmen but no real substance in these and most other conspiracy theories.

I agree moonshield, I just like to look at BOTH sides. I am thoroughly convinced that the government has many plots used to keep the common public at bay as to the real truths in most all of major historic events. Sometimes these misled lies are for the good of the overall people, but at what expense?

We have to be pretty crazy to believe all that we read, hear, and see in the mainstream media.

The truth is that their are powers bigger than us, both seen and unseen from the public eye. It is these powers that control the masses, even if it is through the illusion of freedom.

A2

(don't get me wrong, I am not anti-American, far from it. I just seek truth, it comes only pure ,not tainted. To me evidence is always questioned and because of that I remian skeptical of many things and safeguard myself from acceptance of everything I hear. However, in Economics I can say that I excel, and because of that I can proove many times over the fraud of the FED and the entire monetary system. But for times sake will not go into that. Just know that the S**t is about to hit the fan, and it sucks since we will have to inevidabely have to deal with the fall out)

[monsoon]

It's hard to be a proud American these days when we have a President that openly pushes for amendments to our beloved Constitution that discriminate against a group of people because his support comes from Religious Extremist.s It's hard to be a proud American when we spread unprovoked war on the world, lock up people without charges in a Gulag, torture people in 3rd world prisons, and in fact place an assault on the Constitution itself.

Axis of Evil? Isn't that what we have been calling countries that have sucumbed to Religious Extremists, possess WMDs, and spread war?

I miss the days of Bill Clinton.

[Snowguy716]

Amen Metro.

Not to mention the more conventional things like Bush's attack on the environment, massive handouts to oil and big business, under funding of education and medicare..

About the only thing he has done right is come up with an idea that allows immigrants into the U.S. Even he knows that the whackos way over on the right are wrong on that.

[damus]

It's hard to be a proud American these days when we have a President that openly pushes for amendments to our beloved Constitution that discriminate against a group of people because his support comes from Religious Extremist.s It's hard to be a proud American when we spread unprovoked war on the world, lock up people without charges in a Gulag, torture people in 3rd world prisons, and in fact place an assault on the Constitution itself.

You can't honestly think Bush is as bad as the "axis of evil". Human rights issues aren't a big deal here. You are not forced to be a certain religion, or any religion at all. The "axis of evil" countries have historically built up their military at the expense of the poor. Their poor is not like our poor. Our poor is fat and has one of the best levels of quality of life in the world, rich or poor. Most of the people in Guantomino are suspected terrorists, who are not US citizens and are not guaranteed any rights according to the Constitution. The enemy does not follow the Geneva convention, and while I have not been I would say that living condidions aren't that bad over there. From what the tours that TV personalities have been given showed, Guantomino is not by any means a third world prison.

There were human rights violations in Iraq, and the reasons stated used the same intelligence that Bill Clinton had. Just as you cannot prove the WMDs were there, you can't prove he didn't destroy the evidence and/or bring WMDs to Syria (there were convoys of trucks going there in the days leading up to the war).

It's fair to say he's been assaulting the constitution, but you've got to be insane to think he's the only one. The New Deal is far outside the realm of powers the government is allowed to do in the constitution, roe vs. wade was a textbook case judicial activism, gun control that has been touted for many an administration is illegal. What about J. Edgar Hoover's FBI? I'd say those were scarier times in our history than today. Didn't Janet Reno screw up a few times police state style in places like Waco and Miami among others? I'd have to say that Clinton's appointees to the bench both voted in the majority in New London vs. Kelo. The dissenting judges in this case are the "wacko" conservatives. Stop with the blindness thinking that billy boy is gold and george is the only one who does stuff that isn't legal.

[GRDadof3]

"What is so funny is that the terror attack on 911 was in the midst of one of the largest downturns in the markets. The Nasdaq at its peak was well over 5000, but in the first of Septemer it was around 1500! It seems to me that everytime the economy & markets starts to falter, War becomes the object of desire to rectify the ill fated consequenses."

I would argue that the threat of war, and the continued instability in the Middle East, has HURT the economy, not helped the economy.

You're right that we should all be skeptics, especially of this conspiracy theory stuff.

We in this Country (and I mean everyone) enjoy more civil rights, more prosperity, more security and more opportunities than probably any other civilization in history. And not because of, or in spite of, what any current or previous President has done. It would take a lot more than George W. Bush and his cronies to mess up such a good thing. He, like all of us, is just a small drop in an enormous bucket of water, IMO.

[dimebag1980]

About the only thing he has done right is come up with an idea that allows immigrants into the U.S. Even he knows that the whackos way over on the right are wrong on that.

As far as I know, no one on the right (including myself) is against immigrants entering the country. The problem lies with illegal aliens. Don't call them immigrants, because that's nothing more than a PC word game to make it sound like a good thing when it isn't.

We've got to protect our country in more ways than one, and we can't just allow everyone to come in without the proper documentation.

[monsoon]

It simply flabberghasts me there people that would make excuses for Bush. Bush is absolutely the worst president to hold office since Hoover, and the heads of the corrupt Republican party are right up there with him.

There is absolutely no excuse that we torture people, give up our rights, fight unprovoked wars, spy on our citizens, and destroy the middle class. The excuse "oh but it is better than elsewhere" is just that, an excuse. This is the United States of America and the rest of the world expects better than this and our people deserve better. This is horrible president and we are all going to be paying for it for a long time.

[MJLO]

I agree, people should gaurd agaisnt making sweeping political statements. Things are never black and white.

[dimebag1980]

It simply flabberghasts me there people that would make excuses for Bush. Bush is absolutely the worst president to hold office since Hoover, and the heads of the corrupt Republican party are right up there with him.

There is absolutely no excuse that we torture people, give up our rights, fight unprovoked wars, spy on our citizens, and destroy the middle class. The excuse "oh but it is better than elsewhere" is just that, an excuse. This is the United States of America and the rest of the world expects better than this and our people deserve better. This is horrible president and we are all going to be paying for it for a long time.

That is purely opinion, metro, and your opinion is no better than mine. My opinion is that Clinton was among the worst Presidents, but as I've said that is just my opinion. And I most certainly will not go as far as to say Bush is a great President, because he's not. But he's far from the worst.

I'm a member of the middle class and my lifestyle hasn't been destroyed. As a matter of fact, during the Bush administration I've been able to purchase a house and two much nicer cars. Homes in the middle-class price range are selling like hot cakes. If the middle class were, to quote you, being "destroyed", there is no way this would be the case. It's just a shame you're too blinded by your own liberal agenda to see that.

I also don't mind having my phone calls monitored, as I have nothing to hide. The only people who should be concerned about having their phone calls monitored are those with something to hide. Otherwise, what does it matter who listens in on your phone call to grandma? However, since they're listening for specific keywords, only certain phone conversations will be flagged anyway. There's no way every single call can be monitored, so the chances of your calls ever being heard - unless you have ties to terrorism - are very minimal. You act like Chicken Little, as if the sky is falling, when in fact domestic "spying" has been around for a long time. Its scope has only recently been broadened, and that's the only reason you're hearing and whining about it now.

We live in a nation that is under attack at all times. There are so many groups out there who hate what this country stands for and will stop at nothing to destroy it and those of we who live in it. In times such as these, we can't just sit back like some of you liberals would rather we do. We have to fight for what we believe in and we have to conserve our freedoms. Having our conversations listened to is hardly harming our freedoms. To think otherwise is utterly ridiculous and laughable.

Wake up, for crying out loud. We don't live in a perfect world and we will never all agree. But the fact is, we can't just sit back and allow foreign groups to further infiltrate our country in their very serious attempts at taking us down. The only way to stop this from happening is to take extreme - even unprecedented - measures. The fact is, we can't "all just get along" and we never will be able to. All we can do is fight for our country, regardless of who our President may be at the time.

[damus]

I agree, people should gaurd agaisnt making sweeping political statements. Things are never black and white.

Isn't that what you guys are doing? I didn't like Clinton, and I don't like Bush. I have stated reasons for not liking either one of them between my posts in this thread and other threads. The Clinton administration had fought unprovoked wars, including a conflict in Iraq. They had the same intelligence that Bush had on Sadaam. I'm convinced that he did have weapons and that they are either destroyed or in Syria. There is no way to prove or disprove that.

You can rightfully say that the Bush administration is taking away our freedoms, but so did the Clinton administration. Both administrations are the worst in taking away our civil liberties in recent history. Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the Elian Gonzalez case were all examples where the government went way too far. We haven't seen those types of events unfolding recently. Bush's attack on the constitution for the most part, I say that because of the extension of the assault weapons ban, has been different.

There were many scandals in the Clinton White House that cannot be proved, most notably Chinagate. Neither President has been good. I was not making excuses I was trying to put his attacks on the constitution in perspective. Again, Clinton's appointees (along with other liberal judges) on the supreme court were in the majority on what I consider a landmark decision that will go down as one of the worst decisions in the history of the country.

[dimebag1980]

I agree, people should gaurd agaisnt making sweeping political statements. Things are never black and white.

I agree... but it's funny that you posted this in response to the following post by monsoon:

It simply flabberghasts me there people that would make excuses for Bush. Bush is absolutely the worst president to hold office since Hoover, and the heads of the corrupt Republican party are right up there with him.

There is absolutely no excuse that we torture people, give up our rights, fight unprovoked wars, spy on our citizens, and destroy the middle class. The excuse "oh but it is better than elsewhere" is just that, an excuse. This is the United States of America and the rest of the world expects better than this and our people deserve better. This is horrible president and we are all going to be paying for it for a long time.

That's about as much of a "sweeping political statement" as I've ever seen. But when someone whose viewpoints differ from yours does it, suddenly it's different.

I see.

[MJLO]

That statement does not reflect my viewpoint. I do my best not to make sweeping statements. The truth is I don't feel that George Bush is conservative. His fiscal policies certainly don't reflect it. I am open to all view points. I consider myself a true liberal, in that I accept all points of view. I know it's kind of off topic, but I have alot of friends who call themselves liberal, and then as soon as someone has an opposing view of something. Or they see a car drive by with a Bush sticker on it, they get militant. That's not liberal at all. I tend to vote republican, but i've been disenfrachised to the point where I may not vote at all. I don't find alot of the policies, and tactics of the current administration defenseable.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

The truth is I don't feel that George Bush is conservative. His fiscal policies certainly don't reflect it.

Thank you. I agree.

Nor are his social policies those of a conservative. Expansion of bueracracy, more money to HUD programs, more to education, more more more!

[MJLO]

[DwntwnGeo]

While I do not agree with the current Bush administration, I would not say that he is the worst. Not to burst anyone's bubble but Clinton wasn't any better in my book.

MJLO, see what you started

[hood]

I don't beleive the governmens story of 9/11 and never have. When I first seen the WTC collapse I was thinkin "wow what a perfect implosion." Demolition companies would love it if their buildings would do that every time, I don't beleive that a plane and jet fuel could have wekened those buildings enough in less than an hour for them to collapse. I've seen intentional demolitions fail to collapse a building on the first try. Also, you can clearly see explosions below the debris plume during the collapse, and of course the great point of what the lobbies looked like. The government had the motive and the means to pull this off and I have no reason to beleive they didn't. I've looked at the counter-conspiracy websites and they leave huge holes in the evidence and explanation, I don't buy it. However, I'm not going to dwell on this issue because unless there is some sweeping change in goverment policy or major outside investigation, we will never, ever know the truth.

[DwntwnGeo]

Hood,

I cannot believe your stance on this. Though I cannot bad mouth you because this is your opinion. I for one cannot believe that this was an internal job as you say. I have a sister and cousin that were both walking to work when it collapsed or "imploded".

(speechless)

I don't beleive the governmens story of 9/11 and never have. When I first seen the WTC collapse I was thinkin "wow what a perfect implosion." Demolition companies would love it if their buildings would do that every time, I don't beleive that a plane and jet fuel could have wekened those buildings enough in less than an hour for them to collapse. I've seen intentional demolitions fail to collapse a building on the first try. Also, you can clearly see explosions below the debris plume during the collapse, and of course the great point of what the lobbies looked like. The government had the motive and the means to pull this off and I have no reason to beleive they didn't. I've looked at the counter-conspiracy websites and they leave huge holes in the evidence and explanation, I don't buy it. However, I'm not going to dwell on this issue because unless there is some sweeping change in goverment policy or major outside investigation, we will never, ever know the truth.

[hood]

Hood,

I cannot believe your stance on this. Though I cannot bad mouth you because this is your opinion. I for one cannot believe that this was an internal job as you say. I have a sister and cousin that were both walking to work when it collapsed or "imploded".

(speechless)

I do know the basic structural capabilities of a building, and these were state of the art. There was no way in hell that jet fuel weakened the structure enough to cause a complete collapse, I would doubt it would weaken it enough to cause a collapse of even the floors above the impact. And the explanation of the WTC 7 collapse doesn't even deserve serious consideration. YOu can speculate all you want as to who or what caused this carefully controlled implosion, but I can virtually gauruntee it was not simply a collapse. I put nothing past this government, they are sick and had and have way to much to gain not only from 9/11, but from the wars in Iraq and afghanistan also. Also, if Bin Laden and Alqueda were responsible, they would certainly not deny their involvment, they would brag endlessly.

[MJLO]

To me the science of it makes sense. Fires were burning hot enought at the top, that the building collapsed on its own wieght. It was a domino affect. One floor fell on top of another pushing it into the next and so on. I would be amiss to say that I believed a conspiracy theory. Those buildings were designed fo fall that way. They were also designed to with stand the impact of a jumbo jet and they did. It was the fires that brought them down, and they fell in on themselves.