Utopia Ancillary Development News

[HartfordTycoon]

I'd equate the chances of this being built to the Preston site... The problem is if the Preston development happens and Norwich doesn't get any Utopia developments outside of maybe the Norwich portion of the hospital site Norwich would be screwed. Many (if not the vast majority) of the low income workers at Utopia will end up living in Norwich putting a huge strain on services. I'm not even going to get into the other headaches that not just Norwich, but the region will have because of this massive project. Best case for Norwich is Utopia disappears. Even if that means nothing goes up at the hospital site.

Because there's so many other things going on for Norwich right now, right? I don't know I guess it depends what you want. If Utopia doesn't happen, all I see is status quo in Norwich from now for the foreseeable future.

[somad]

Because there's so many other things going on for Norwich right now, right? I don't know I guess it depends what you want. If Utopia doesn't happen, all I see is status quo in Norwich from now for the foreseeable future.

That's not the point. Just because you're stagnant doesn't mean you have to shoot yourself in the foot to prove that you're a city on the move. Sure, the city will be "on the move" but it'd be moving in the wrong direction. We do not need this mess; it will result in sprawl, higher taxes (despite what the Utopia folks say), more crime (low income workers), overcrowded schools, overcrowded roads, pollution, overcrowded hospitals, the list goes on. Just throwing 30,000+ people (along with their families) overnight into an area (Norwich-Preston-Montville) whose population isn't much higher while at the same time attracting a higher number of out of towners to go to the touristy attractions is a recipe for a quality of life disaster. Not all developments are good... We do not need this Orlando meets Vegas with sh*tty weather thing that Gentile seems to want the area to be, and I don't think most people really understand what the end result of all this stuff really means. Go ahead and call me an elitist.. I will freely admit that I think most people fall into one or both of these camps: 1) stupid 2) too busy with their own lives to really pay attention to what's going on.

As for Norwich, I can see it doing OK though not great. It has been doing alright for a city its size before Utopia came along. It still has some of the most beautiful architecture in the country, the best high school that a city could hope for, and a location right near the two casinos that is tough to beat. A big drawback with the casinos is that so many of their employees are immigrants and that strains the schools who have to provide ESL classes for children of these low income workers. The surrounding towns, while losing their farmland heritage to subdivisions, are still small towns. This all stands to change if Utopia comes along. The casinos will continue to expand and N. Stonington Studios would bring in the movie industry, so the area will grow and change no matter what. Utopia is just too big, and that so much of it comes all at once will be a huge shock to the region.

on edit: There actually is something big going on in Norwich: Byron Brook Country Club is a $200 million dollar project that's going up. There is the ongoing renovations to the massive ponemah mills, which were the largest textile mills in the world when built. Also, there have been a few smaller developments here and there. This is a city of less than 40,000 yet it's seeing a lot of money invested in it.

[HartfordTycoon]

That's not the point. Just because you're stagnant doesn't mean you have to shoot yourself in the foot to prove that you're a city on the move. Sure, the city will be "on the move" but it'd be moving in the wrong direction. We do not need this mess; it will result in sprawl, higher taxes (despite what the Utopia folks say), more crime (low income workers), overcrowded schools, overcrowded roads, pollution, overcrowded hospitals, the list goes on. Just throwing 30,000+ people (along with their families) overnight into an area (Norwich-Preston-Montville) whose population isn't much higher while at the same time attracting a higher number of out of towners to go to the touristy attractions is a recipe for a quality of life disaster. Not all developments are good... We do not need this Orlando meets Vegas with sh*tty weather thing that Gentile seems to want the area to be, and I don't think most people really understand what the end result of all this stuff really means. Go ahead and call me an elitist.. I will freely admit that I think most people fall into one or both of these camps: 1) stupid 2) too busy with their own lives to really pay attention to what's going on.

As for Norwich, I can see it doing OK though not great. It has been doing alright for a city its size before Utopia came along. It still has some of the most beautiful architecture in the country, the best high school that a city could hope for, and a location right near the two casinos that is tough to beat. A big drawback with the casinos is that so many of their employees are immigrants and that strains the schools who have to provide ESL classes for children of these low income workers. The surrounding towns, while losing their farmland heritage to subdivisions, are still small towns. This all stands to change if Utopia comes along. The casinos will continue to expand and N. Stonington Studios would bring in the movie industry, so the area will grow and change no matter what. Utopia is just too big, and that so much of it comes all at once will be a huge shock to the region.

on edit: There actually is something big going on in Norwich: Byron Brook Country Club is a $200 million dollar project that's going up. There is the ongoing renovations to the massive ponemah mills, which were the largest textile mills in the world when built. Also, there have been a few smaller developments here and there. This is a city of less than 40,000 yet it's seeing a lot of money invested in it.

Demographics change. Places change. In the end it could all make the area more attractive and interesting. Some people want to attract even more new residents, some don't. In my opinion new population is good (we would kill for some damn population growth in Hartford), immigrants are good, overall. Everything has drawbacks but I think the good outweighs the bad with this. Your region has a new, cohesive direction it's moving towards. Imagine if the people in Hollywood would've NIMBied everyone out of town. That would have been a huge loss for California, America, and the world in my opinion. Who knows what the future holds for Norwich and Preston? If nothing happens, it's more predicable, more of the same. If massive development occurs a lot of good things could possibly happen.

I don't think it's fair to call most people stupid who support it. Many are fully aware of the ramifications and feel it's worth it. Like me.

[somad]

I don't think it's fair to call most people stupid who support it. Many are fully aware of the ramifications and feel it's worth it. Like me.

I think it's absolutely fair to call most people idiots... Haven't you seen those news articles that show that more people know who Harry Potter is than Tony Blair? Ask 100 people on the street to name the secretary of state, the chief justice of the supreme court, and the senate majority leader and you'll find the number of people who are idiots are bigger than the percentage that votes. Obviously people have strong opinions based upon nothing but sound bytes and what their friends say and go out and vote, and they did so with the Utopia thing. You may be fully aware of the consequences but you don't have to live through tthem. This is not responsible development. The proponents that had the ambition to go out and hold signs called me an idiot and said that this project would lower taxes (false) and would only have an effect on the hospital site. The last point just plain stupid, esp. after being told this company wanted to build possibly billions of dollars in ancillary developments... which I was told "oh come on" while the lead idiot rolled her eyes. On top of that there are 22,500 people (mostly low income) who will need places to live, and traffic. I would assume those drawbacks would be obvious, so again I guess people are idiots. I'm already being proven right with this Norwich ancillary development and they're still looking into New London, Waterford, Montville, Bozrah, and Plainfield for possible future ancillary developments.

I'd really like to know how this Utopia thing would be good for current residents. It seems to me like quality of life will suffer, and in Preston's case the town will probably zone itself into a Darien type place that people can't afford to live in unless they make a lot of money. Los Angeles was a growing frontier town when the movie industry came. This region has its history, culture, and quality of life. Add on top of that the beaurocracy that has grown and makes it much harder and much more expensive to build new infrastructure and it's an insane proposal. Yes they built the LA river.... but imagine how expensive and how impossible that wouldve been to get passed in today's world. Progress is one thing: gentrifying most of a region is another. The riverfront areas will most likely be gentrified. At the same time, thousands of low income workers would like places to live as places like Greenville start to get pricier as the waterfront mills get redeveloped and others flock to greenville for access to one of the only urban villages already in the region and its proximity to water and the Utopia development. This project has the potential to create such a mess it's unbelievable that so many people are in favor of it. I am not the NIMBY who opposes everything... this is just too big and most people would be against this like I am if they understood it. I'll give you one final example of the idiots vs. non idiots by giving you personal examples.

Yes, I know all people who are for it who aren't stupid (I never said that all utopia supporter are idiots, but idiots put them over the top). There are some who are looking for their property values to go up so they can move on or in one case I know a guy who's still flipping houses and looks forward to making a lot of money that way. No intelligent person I have met who is for this has anything else in mind but making money via the increased property values and they don't really have an emotional attachment to this region. The rest of the supporters have such a shallow bullet point opinion of this it seems they got right from Utopia's presentations. They let others think for them and didn't see past the smoke and mirrors that Utopia is putting up to see what's really going to happen here. If Utopia comes, we will not be able to recognize this region in 20 years. You cannot really say that about the local tribes' and N. Stonington Studios still ambitious plans. Sure, this area will change for better or worse... But Utopia will be to this region what Disney World was to Orlando. How is that a good thing?

[HartfordTycoon]

I understand your points and they were well made. I agree that most people in general are stupid. In fact I often argue that point in order to explain why peace on earth has never happened, never will happen, and never even could happen given human nature.

... But Utopia will be to this region what Disney World was to Orlando. How is that a good thing?

Would you even know where Orlando is if not for Disney? I doubt most people would and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't unless they had more than orange groves and what was it "Gatorland?" or something you guys were talking about pre Disney. As an outsider though I will admit that I don't place as much value on what is currently there and keeping it the same as you do, obviously. I'll probably never have a reason to stop in Norwich unless this gets built, and that is not a slight. I've just never been there and never had a reason to. I have been to Mohegan and Foxwoods plenty of times though. Some people don't care if someone like me never makes it to Norwich, however the business owners want as many people as will come and if it takes something big and new to get them here, then oh well.

[gloriajean1]

The proposed Norwich harbor development could be very good for the area. However, as a Norwich resident who lives and works on Washington St, AKA Route 2, two blocks north of the proposed twin 37 story towers, I have some serious concerns about the project.

Some of my main concerns are with traffic, noise, and the restrictions that would go along with having the rich and famous as our neighbors. For example, Route 2 already backs up several blocks north of the harbor in the afternoons. What will it be like if the project goes to fruition?

I am also very concerned about the idea of appointing one person as master developer of the City. Does that mean he gets a cut of every downtown development project, or that his say is final on all designs?

The twin tower drawings are beautiful, but there is not much detailed information available on the project. We have heard very little from City hall about the project details. Perhaps, that is because the plans are still so fuzzy. Unfortunately, we as residents cannot sit back and wait until the details are worked out and we are asked to vote yes or no on a finished design. We have to be involved early on in the project. It is our job as residents to assure that this project meets our needs and not just those of local government and the developer.

If you are interested in readying more, you can read my article

[mikel]

I understand your points and they were well made. I agree that most people in general are stupid. In fact I often argue that point in order to explain why peace on earth has never happened, never will happen, and never even could happen given human nature.

Would you even know where Orlando is if not for Disney? I doubt most people would and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't unless they had more than orange groves and what was it "Gatorland?" or something you guys were talking about pre Disney. As an outsider though I will admit that I don't place as much value on what is currently there and keeping it the same as you do, obviously. I'll probably never have a reason to stop in Norwich unless this gets built, and that is not a slight. I've just never been there and never had a reason to. I have been to Mohegan and Foxwoods plenty of times though. Some people don't care if someone like me never makes it to Norwich, however the business owners want as many people as will come and if it takes something big and new to get them here, then oh well.

[HartfordTycoon]

Well if you've never been to Norwich, you're missing out on a beautiful city. If you've been to Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun many times but not Norwich, clearly you prefer an extortionist fantasyland than a historic city. For me personally, I'd rather live in Norwich than Orlando. I assume much of the population of Norwich agrees, otherwise they might have left Norwich. And thus, an outsider's view who hasn't even been there is pretty worthless.

[MadVlad]

Downtown Norwich is absolutely gorgeous. It has a great bunch of historic buildings that, unlike Hartford, have been saved from the wrecking ball. Could it use some work? Sure, but the groundwork is there, and that is important.