Riverfront Property Proposal(s)?

[GRGyp]

Honestly, I think that little sketch right there could be an accurate representation of what we may see for buildings. Kind of a little pass on to the public. I'm glad there's a spire included. The most left building looks to be a salt shaker.

OK, so we have three proposals:

1) Moch International - a local group who's biggest project has yet to be built (Icon on Bond) and isn't close to a 16 acre development.

2)Barnes-Stevens - Who has done a lot of Brownfield work.... in the 1 to 5 acre range.

3)Faust & Co - Who self-admittedly hasn't done anything large, but wants to take on 16 acres plus another 14 acres.

I realize a developer has to cut their teeth at some point on their "first" big project. The question is, do you want them to cut their teeth on riverfront property that will be a natural focal point if anything "vertical" gets placed there?

The new Metro hospital was a rusting eyesore for months when financing fell through and all they had was a steel super structure built. If someone gets awarded this, they better have the cahones, capital, and experience to see this through to the end.

[Rizzo]

OK, so we have three proposals:

1) Moch International - a local group who's biggest project has yet to be built (Icon on Bond) and isn't close to a 16 acre development.

2)Barnes-Stevens - Who has done a lot of Brownfield work.... in the 1 to 5 acre range.

3)Faust & Co - Who self-admittedly hasn't done anything large, but wants to take on 16 acres plus another 14 acres.

I realize a developer has to cut their teeth at some point on their "first" big project. The question is, do you want them to cut their teeth on riverfront property that will be a natural focal point if anything "vertical" gets placed there?

The new Metro hospital was a rusting eyesore for months when financing fell through and all they had was a steel super structure built. If someone gets awarded this, they better have the cahones, capital, and experience to see this through to the end.

The City Attorney may very well be the only person here that has a bit of information that contains the "good stuff," hell for all we know The Attorney probably was dancing like hell in his office.

I guess this is the part where we sit back and let thoes in charge do what they are supposed to do....

EDIT: I see Eric is on the Task Force... Isn't that a bit of conflict?

[DwntwnGeo]

EDIT: I see Eric is on the Task Force... Isn't that a bit of conflict?

I saw and wondered the same thing

[Rizzo]

Let me say that I didn't mention that as any lack on ethics of the part of people on that list. It just stuck out in my mind.

[twoshort]

I saw and wondered the same thing

It's probably not a conflict of interest because his property is technically not involved in the sale of city land. Just because he owns land in the city doesn't make him directly involved even if Faust had shown interest previously. Maybe?

[Veloise]

Yea, I think he sketched that himself.

I am guessing that's a font issue. If City doesn't have the same font used, it would revert to Helvetica and look not so great.

No cover story for the illustration, however.

[DwntwnGeo]

3)Faust & Co - Who self-admittedly hasn't done anything large, but wants to take on 16 acres plus another 14 acres.

I realize a developer has to cut their teeth at some point on their "first" big project. The question is, do you want them to cut their teeth on riverfront property that will be a natural focal point if anything "vertical" gets placed there?

Faust has publicly stated that he hasn't done a project this size, but he has also publicly stated and written in his proposal that a team of local and national players are working on putting this project together. Their resumes, qualifications and the project's finicial backing are/were sent to the City Attorney for their review.

Quote from Faust submittal:

"GRDC has carefully assembled a team of highly skilled local and national consultants who combined, possess the experience, talent and resources required to execute the many critical aspects of this proejct's developement and construction"

"potential inverstors are publicly traded companies for which possible participation could represent materially signficant news"

Sounds like they have a large plan and have some/all of their ducks starting to line up. It would interested to see/review all the package information for all three proposals and see those that get selected to submitt full proposals with timelines, designs etc. at the end of the summer

Just my two cents

EDIT: Spelling error Not my best submit in school.....

[Rizzo]

Anyone know the financial history of Canary Wharf? I heard this RiverGrand was emulating part of the concept of Canary.

[GRDadof3]

It's probably not a conflict of interest because his property is technically not involved in the sale of city land. Just because he owns land in the city doesn't make him directly involved even if Faust had shown interest previously. Maybe?

Yeah, but he's close enough to the process that he should recuse himself (of the City should excuse him). If he wants to be involved with the process with the notion that whatever goes there will affect his business (which I totally understand), then he has to do the right thing and say his property is "NOT FOR SALE" to any of the developers. What if Barnes/Stevens have offered more money for Terra Firma's property than Faust did? Or Moch boys? That totally muddies the waters.

OK, so we have three proposals:

1) Moch International - a local group who's biggest project has yet to be built (Icon on Bond) and isn't close to a 16 acre development.

2)Barnes-Stevens - Who has done a lot of Brownfield work.... in the 1 to 5 acre range.

3)Faust & Co - Who self-admittedly hasn't done anything large, but wants to take on 16 acres plus another 14 acres.

I realize a developer has to cut their teeth at some point on their "first" big project. The question is, do you want them to cut their teeth on riverfront property that will be a natural focal point if anything "vertical" gets placed there?

and you guys thought I was crazy when I declared not to get your hopes up that any massive developers would step in on this.

[DwntwnGeo]

It's probably not a conflict of interest because his property is technically not involved in the sale of city land. Just because he owns land in the city doesn't make him directly involved even if Faust had shown interest previously. Maybe?

My intention wasn't to point a finger at Eric. I just noticed his name when looking at the members on the board. Maybe there are other landowners in the area on the board too. I don't know. It seems weird to be on a board that you may or may not have a personal connection to. As GRDad mentioned, if one of the other two proposal offer you more money for your land that is for sale in the area, would you be more inclined to suggest that the city sell to them so your sale will go through?

[GRDadof3]

My intention wasn't to point a finger at Eric. I just noticed his name when looking at the members on the board. Maybe there are other landowners in the area on the board too. I don't know. It seems weird to be on a board that you may or may not have a personal connection to. As GRDad mentioned, if one of the other two proposal offer you more money for your land that is for sale in the area, would you be more inclined to suggest that the city sell to them so your sale will go through?

Precisement, mon frair! They need this process to be CLEAN and ABOVE REPROACH. This project has a lot riding on it to trip it up with possible entanglements or questions of ethics. Hey, I'm not accusing, but this process will be political and polarized enough as it is.

[GRGyp]

Quote from Faust submittal:

"GRDC has carefully assembled a team of highly skilled local and national consultants who combined, possess the experience, talent and resources required to execute the many critical aspects of this proejct's developement and construction"

"potential inverstors are publicly traded companies for which possible participation could represent materially signficant news"

I see a lot of power words there, so it's a great resume. They definitely can talk the talk. I don't see actual names, however, so I'll have to reserve judgment on the accuracy of those statements at this point.

Oh to be fly on the wall at the GR legal department when Faust's financial packet arrives. That information will show if he actually can walk the walk.

[Veloise]

...

Sounds like they have a large plan and have some/all of their ducts starting to line up. ...

d-u-c-k-s

If memory serves, the phrase is derived from those old shooting galleries.

You wouldn't want to have ducts (for heating) in a row!

[pontificating again...front page of UP has a bad apostrophe making me cringe!]

[Rizzo]

Just heard that Eric maybe asked to resign from his position as a member of the Task Force.

[DwntwnGeo]

d-u-c-k-s

Veloise,

Thanks for setting me right. I am not always the best speller

[joeDowntown]

The company I work for has an office in Canary Wharf. Built by the same group as the WTC. A self-contained "city" outside of old London, contains pretty much every financial player in the world (each floor has it's own N.O.C. (Network Operations Center). Very high-tech.

The Olympics (to be held in London) will be built around Canary Wharf.

I hear it is a fantastic place. More New York than London...

Joe

Anyone know the financial history of Canary Wharf? I heard this RiverGrand was emulating part of the concept of Canary.

[GRDadof3]

Did anyone research any of Barnes/Stevens' projects yet? There's a slew of them in their proposal, but nothing like the riverfront property at first glance:

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/documents/plan3.pdf

(from the GR Press site)

[torgo]

Did anyone research any of Barnes/Stevens' projects yet? There's a slew of them in their proposal, but nothing like the riverfront property at first glance:

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/documents/plan3.pdf

(from the GR Press site)

I'm a little confused by their letter. What exactly does this mean:

"Our development will feature a new riverwalk along the 8 miles of riverfront in the new Millenuim Park. This will connect the park with today's downtown Grand Rapids."

So are they gonna build a river walk in the park? Is that allowed?

[snoogit]

I'm a little confused by their letter. What exactly does this mean:

"Our development will feature a new riverwalk along the 8 miles of riverfront in the new Millenuim Park. This will connect the park with today's downtown Grand Rapids."

So are they gonna build a river walk in the park? Is that allowed?

I didn't think so...

[GRGyp]

I'm a little confused by their letter. What exactly does this mean:

"Our development will feature a new riverwalk along the 8 miles of riverfront in the new Millenuim Park. This will connect the park with today's downtown Grand Rapids."

So are they gonna build a river walk in the park? Is that allowed?

I think they typed "in" where they should of typed "to"

"Our development will feature a new riverwalk along the 8 miles of riverfront to the new Millenuim Park. This will connect the park with today's downtown Grand Rapids."

Although it still doesn't make much sense because an 8-mile trail starting at the S-curve and following the river would end up on 28th/Wilson in Johnson Park. Millenium Park would be a 4 mile trail to it's center if they would construct a separate trail from the bike path, but only about a 2 mile trail if they construct it from the S-curve to the bike trail starting at the old Domtar gypsum plant.

I hear the view of the old city dump is wonderful along that stretch of the river though...

[Phizzy]

Barnes/Stevens' "Proposal for 201 Market Avenue Redevelopment Project", May 19: "CERF principals have reviewed the Grand Rapids site and have committed to fund this project."

CERF's letter to Barnes/Stevens, May 18: "This is not to be deemed a loan commitment. Only the Loan Committee of CERF may finally approve all loans."

[Allison Slater]

I'd say the Barnes/Stevens plan seems a bit iffy. First of all, as Phizzy pointed out, they don't seem to know exactly what they have. Do they have committed funding or not?

On top of that, they don't seem to have done proper research. 8 Miles? Do they think they're re-doing the whole of Grand Rapids?

And on top of that they say they've done many projects, but looking at the pictures of all the projects they displayed.. they all seem to look very suburban...

The Moch plan also seems a bit iffy. In their statement they mention that research must still be done if their plan could work in that area (or was that the Barnes/Stevens?)

And the Faust Plan... don't even know what on earth it is.

[twoshort]

To quote a great American:

Is anyone else incredibly un-excited by all this? After all the initial hype its just hard to get excited. That and the fact that it will be YEARS before anything actually happens on the site...

[Rizzo]

I'm not tired. I'm more facinated by the RFP process and the steps taken to sell public land, it's very interesting. If I'm tired it's probably because of the wait.

[AlexPKeaton]

This is just the first step, so they don't need specific propsals yet, right? They just need to demonstrate the ability to do something to get an invitation to submit a formal proposal. So, although Moch might not know the feasibility of his project yet, if invited to submit a proposal he'll have to work all that out. Same as every other developer. If Barnes/Stevens submits a suburban sprawl proposal, that's probably as far as it will go, the city will likely not accept it.

I'm still worried that Faust's idea, while the most ambitious, is probably the least realistic. 1300 to 1500 housing units when the downtown market is only expected to absorb a few hundred new units per year and we already have all these new condos planned or under construction? Either he'll have to build out very slowly and deliberately, or his development will essentially kill any other developments for the next 10 years or whenever the market catches up.

-nb