Riverfront Property Proposal(s)?

[torgo]

This is just the first step, so they don't need specific propsals yet, right? They just need to demonstrate the ability to do something to get an invitation to submit a formal proposal. So, although Moch might not know the feasibility of his project yet, if invited to submit a proposal he'll have to work all that out. Same as every other developer. If Barnes/Stevens submits a suburban sprawl proposal, that's probably as far as it will go, the city will likely not accept it.

I'm still worried that Faust's idea, while the most ambitious, is probably the least realistic. 1300 to 1500 housing units when the downtown market is only expected to absorb a few hundred new units per year and we already have all these new condos planned or under construction? Either he'll have to build out very slowly and deliberately, or his development will essentially kill any other developments for the next 10 years or whenever the market catches up.

-nb

Yeah, I think you are right. After this, the City selects a developer and asks them for an actual proposal that would include specifics and a site plan and all that.

I have the same concern. These projects call for office space, residential, and so on, and I wonder how they would even fill up the space, unless they brought a bunch of tenants along with them.

[DwntwnGeo]

I'm still worried that Faust's idea, while the most ambitious, is probably the least realistic. 1300 to 1500 housing units when the downtown market is only expected to absorb a few hundred new units per year and we already have all these new condos planned or under construction? Either he'll have to build out very slowly and deliberately, or his development will essentially kill any other developments for the next 10 years or whenever the market catches up.

-nb

As you mentioned, this is only the first step in the process. The city has asked for documentation to support whatever any of the developer would like to build. Also we must take into consideration that the Faust plan is over twice as large as the other two proposals because he is trying to aquire additional land beyond the City owned land. Taking this into consideration, it may take several years or a decade to completely finish his project. To me it would be hard to tell what downtown Grand Rapids would need ten years from now. I think (this is just my opinion) that Faust and Co has thought about this a while (over the past four years) and has documention and "out of town" support for his plans which he has stated he will give the City Attorney upon request. I guess what I am trying to say is, his plan may state 1500 housing units, and at our current rate, would not be able to absorb, but if he has a corporate presence willing to move here, those new employees to the area will increase the housing demand.

Just trying to think/look at things from different angles

[terra firma]

I saw and wondered the same thing

If I were in active discussions with any of the 3 parties (I'm not) and / or had an option agreement for the sale of my buildings (I didn't) then it would be a bit "funny" I do agree.

If any of the three conact me abous the sale of my stuff, I'd surely step down-- I was asked to help and I agreed to do it; I'm familiar with the City's RFP process and have some experience with downtown real estate and so that's why they asked me to participate.

If they asked me to 'unparticipate' I would surely do so with absolutlely no hard feelings. But they haven't...

Interesting point though !

[terra firma]

Just heard that Eric maybe asked to resign from his position as a member of the Task Force.

This website is hilarious. May I ask where you heard that ?

Nobody has asked but as stated before I would surelyl stand down IF I was involved with any of the three applicants but I"m not at present. No agreements, no options, no communications of late.

I promise you, if anyone of the "buyers" came to me I'd bail from the committee w/o question.

Eric

[Rizzo]

Eric,Like everyone else not in the know: Channel 8... I think they quoted Heartwell saying this also. Yes this website is hilarious.

[terra firma]

Eric,Like everyone else not in the know: Channel 8... I think they quoted Heartwell saying this also. Yes this website is hilarious.

Rizzo, thanks for the tip !! I just checked out WOOD TV-8's website and Suzanne confirmed for me that I may now hit the golf course 2 hours earlier than planned on Thursday as opposed to going to the task force meeting!!

Sweet !!

[GRGyp]

I have the same concern. These projects call for office space, residential, and so on, and I wonder how they would even fill up the space, unless they brought a bunch of tenants along with them.

That's the rub for me. A 16 acre development, with a vertical element, is going need to bring in some tenants from outside the area to make it successful. I'm not going to say the project will fail if you don't this. The project itself might be a resound success, but at what cost? If something this big is a success and doesn't pull tenants from outside the area, then the risk is creating urban blight in other parts of the metro area as companies just make a lateral shift in location within the city and leave empty buildings in their wake. So tenants from outside our area are a must in my opinion.

I don't think Moch has the national connections to be able to do that. Same with Barnes/Stevens, they haven't done anything of this scale and so I doubt they have the connections to pull this off.

That leaves Faust and associates. They've hinted that they have outside clients in their pockets. They claim they'll create 3000 to 10,000 jobs with the project. If it does bring in that number, than commercial and residential properties will need to expand in the Grand Rapids market to absorb the added residents entering the area, so the added the housing contained in the development would possibly be warranted.

So my belief is that the Moch can't pull this off, and I'm very skeptical Barnes/Stevens can as well. Although Barnes/Stevens may have some national accounts seeing as they are based in Buffalo and have served clients in California and Indiana. Faust is the only one that has stated as having everything lined up to make this project work, but hasn't show anything tangible so the question is whether he is blowing smoke... And the answer to that question, most likely lies in a confidential file sent to the city's legal council.

[DwntwnGeo]

This website is hilarious. May I ask where you heard that ?

I was watching Channel 8 last night at 11pm and the Great Geha mentioned that you were on the City task force and might be asked to step down because of your possible involvement.

There wasn't a full story about it and I couldn't find anything on their website. It was just a comment that she made inbetween stories.

As another member posted a while ago. Sometimes it seems like Channel 8 gets some of their news tips from our posts.....

[terra firma]

I was watching Channel 8 last night at 11pm and the Great Geha mentioned that you were on the City task force and might be asked to step down because of your possible involvement.

There wasn't a full story about it and I couldn't find anything on their website. It was just a comment that she made inbetween stories.

As another member posted a while ago. Sometimes it seems like Channel 8 gets some of their news tips from our posts.....

I have no doubt they get tips from this site; I certainly would if I were a reporter !

Suzanne did call me briefly yesterday and I told her I was not sure about my future on the taskforce because if I "had a horse in the race" I'd be standing down. I was in the middle of something outdoors so I probably didn't do a good job of communicating to her what I was thinking. Suzanne and Rachel have never done me wrong so I'll blame myself on this one.

Now I get where the rumor came from-- urban planet ---> tv 8 ----> back to urban planet----> us.

[GRGyp]

Rizzo, thanks for the tip !! I just checked out WOOD TV-8's website and Suzanne confirmed for me that I may now hit the golf course 2 hours earlier than planned on Thursday as opposed to going to the task force meeting!!

Sweet !!

Careful, you may get a phone call like this from Heartwell...

MayorHeartwell: "Eric, where are you?"

You: "The 5th hole at Diamond Springs. Why?"

MH: "You're part of the taskforce, why are you at the golf course?"

You: "Because Geha and the WOOD website said I was going to be asked to step down."

MH: "Geha? Don't you know Geha gets all her information from UrbanPlanet? She doesn't have a clue! Now get your niblick in here."

[Rizzo]

I have no doubt they get tips from this site; I certainly would if I were a reporter !

Suzanne did call me briefly yesterday and I told her I was not sure about my future on the taskforce because if I "had a horse in the race" I'd be standing down. I was in the middle of something outdoors so I probably didn't do a good job of communicating to her what I was thinking. Suzanne and Rachel have never done me wrong so I'll blame myself on this one.

Now I get where the rumor came from-- urban planet ---> tv 8 ----> back to urban planet----> us.

Nope, It started with Geha calling on you to slip up so that she has something good. I got what you call a "rumor" from a "News Leader."

[localtalent]

If I were in active discussions with any of the 3 parties (I'm not) and / or had an option agreement for the sale of my buildings (I didn't) then it would be a bit "funny" I do agree.

If any of the three conact me abous the sale of my stuff, I'd surely step down-- I was asked to help and I agreed to do it; I'm familiar with the City's RFP process and have some experience with downtown real estate and so that's why they asked me to participate.

If they asked me to 'unparticipate' I would surely do so with absolutlely no hard feelings. But they haven't...

Interesting point though !

You publically called out the Faust people as amateurs on this site and threatened to sue them.

How can you possibly claim to be objective with respect to evaluating the proposals?

[terra firma]

MH: "Geha? Don't you know Geha gets all her information from UrbanPlanet? She doesn't have a clue!"

she actually is pretty smart. I forget who did this; (from UP website) not to be rude or disrespectful but it is funny !!

[Phizzy]

There wasn't a full story about it and I couldn't find anything on their website.

I found it, here.

That task force will have their first meeting Thursday.

24 Hour News 8 has learned one task force member, local developer Eric Wynsma, may be asked to step down. Wynsma also negotiated to sell his property to Duane Faust, but the deal fell through.

Wynsma told 24 Hour News 8 he'll do whatever city officials think is appropriate to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest.

[twoshort]

You publically called out the Faust people as amateurs on this site

Perhaps you should qualify that comment.. It was:

"Faust is not even remotely qualified in my opinion. Then again I've done deals I was not qualified for."

[localtalent]

Perhaps you should qualify that comment.. It was:

"Faust is not even remotely qualified in my opinion. Then again I've done deals I was not qualified for."

Many of the original comments he made were edited out. The fact that they are no longer publically available does not make them irrelevant.

Eric clearly had strong feelings about Faust when the first TV interview aired. For some reason, he felt duped in some way.

I'm simply trying to point out that he's not an uninterested third party expert regardless of whether he's actively negotiating on his properties.

[GRGyp]

Many of the original comments he made were edited out. The fact that they are no longer publically available does not make them irrelevant.

No, but all of those comments were made nearly a month ago. Cooler heads can prevail from that point to this current date. The question shouldn't be "Was he objective then?", but rather "Can he be objective now."

[terra firma]

Perhaps you should qualify that comment.. It was:

"Faust is not even remotely qualified in my opinion. Then again I've done deals I was not qualified for."

Nice work twoshort, that is indeed what I said.

[Rizzo]

If we are debating whether or not he can objectively offer an opinion on all three proposals only gives me more of a icky feeling. If there's grounds for both arguments that just rings real loud in my mind. The shadow of doubt has been cast.

[twoshort]

If we are debating whether or not he can objectively offer an opinion on all three proposals only gives me more of a icky feeling. If there's grounds for both arguments that just rings real loud in my mind. The shadow of doubt has been cast.

I don't disagree with this sentiment.

[terra firma]

Many of the original comments he made were edited out. The fact that they are no longer publically available does not make them irrelevant.

Eric clearly had strong feelings about Faust when the first TV interview aired. For some reason, he felt duped in some way.

I'm simply trying to point out that he's not an uninterested third party expert regardless of whether he's actively negotiating on his properties.

Fair enough. We negotiated in good faith, spent countless hours with attorneys at our expense, etc. all for what turned out to be a guy we'd never heard of and names we'd heard before were no longer part of the plan.

I think you'd feel the same way if you were me !!

As for my being objetive, please consider that I"ve not been asked to help select which developer gets the nod-- until now my volunteerism has only been to help manage and define realistic parameters for the RFP process !!!

You mentioned that I am not a third party expert and I agree. I am a volunteer, there could be nothing further from an expert than that !!!

[GRGyp]

If we are debating whether or not he can objectively offer an opinion on all three proposals only gives me more of a icky feeling. If there's grounds for both arguments that just rings real loud in my mind. The shadow of doubt has been cast.

I agree and I really don't want to go into that debate either, but I don't like seeing generalities made on a person's character on comments thay may/or may not have made in the heat of the moment...

I once laid a pretty good elbow under the chin of a friend playing basketball. In return I got a two hand shove to the chest, called an exit orifice of the body, and had the authenticity of who my father was questioned. A week later I was having dinner with the same guy. Should I have been suspicious that he was plotting something against me while carving his steak?

[localtalent]

Fair enough. We negotiated in good faith, spent countless hours with attorneys at our expense, etc. all for what turned out to be a guy we'd never heard of and names we'd heard before were no longer part of the plan.

I think you'd feel the same way if you were me !!

As for my being objetive, please consider that I"ve not been asked to help select which developer gets the nod-- until now my volunteerism has only been to help manage and define realistic parameters for the RFP process !!!

You mentioned that I am not a third party expert and I agree. I am a volunteer, there could be nothing further from an expert than that !!!

Thanks for clarifying.

My intent wasn't to be overly critical; I appreciate you responding in such a reasonable manner.

[localtalent]

I agree and I really don't want to go into that debate either, but I don't like seeing generalities made on a person's character on comments thay may/or may not have made in the heat of the moment...

I once laid a pretty good elbow under the chin of a friend playing basketball. In return I got a two hand shove to the chest, called an exit orifice of the body, and had the authenticity of who my father was questioned. A week later I was having dinner with the same guy. Should I have been suspicious that he was plotting something against me while carving his steak?

I've seen Urban Planet compared to a lot of things, but a friendly game of basketball is a bit of a reach.

[GRDadof3]

I've seen Urban Planet compared to a lot of things, but a friendly game of basketball is a bit of a reach.

Maybe barnyard basketball?