Long Savannah

[krazeeboi]

I know that I tend to criticize NU developments that aren't integrated into an existing urban context, but at least the movement is thinking realistically as well as ideally. Realistically in that the majority of any new development within any given area will be suburban in nature--so why not bring some quality development to the suburbs that at least decreses dependence on the automobile somewhat? The fact of the matter is that suburban growth will not stop, and indeed is natural; it's the way what we've been building in the suburbs for the past half century that's been unnatural. Connectivity to future development would also be easier with NU developments. The movement thinks ideally in that almost half of NU developments are in the form of urban infill--town centers, urban neighborhoods, etc.

[vicupstate]

It's not sounding too good for this project. It will be a real test of the Urban Boundary among other things

Long Savannah Hearing set

[Charleston native]

It's pretty frustrating to be out of the loop for awhile, only to come back into it and realize most things have not changed at all. As usual, many county residents have already started regurgitating their obstructionist, NIMBY views. What I'm worried about is that there hasn't been any discussions or even mentioning of annexation of this project by the city. The county is being given the full power in holding the forums over the development.

[lsgchas]

I sat on the fence for a while on this development, but I think I've decided I'm against it. My main reason is the simple fact I don't think the Charleston area needs a development this large right now. We've already approved enough new construction to accomodate population growth for the next 20 years, even according to the most optimistic estimates. There are dozens of homes for sale in the neighborhoods nearby the Long Savannah site. Some have probably sat on the market for months. Obviously there is no shortage of available housing in the area. The developers conceived their plans in a time when the housing market seemed to have no ceiling, but that rosy time is looking more and more like a delusion. It's unfair to ask the residents of Red Top to sacrifice a lifestyle they love, and for the people of the Lowcountry to sacrifice another part of the greenspace we all love, all for houses we don't even need.

[Charleston native]

Why wasn't there more opposition to the ever-expanding developments in Mt. P or Summerville as neighborhoods and shopping centers continue to be built that way? Development here makes far more sense considering its closer proximity to Charleston's urban core and dense suburbs of West Ashley. West Ashley needs to be allowed to expand to keep the demand from growing further away past S'ville and Mt. P, and Red Top residents need to understand that this area is the most logical place for growth.

[vicupstate]

I realize you don't always have the time to keep tabs on things Native, but there has been substantial controversy in Summerville regarding new large housing developments. Watson Hill was just the beginning of several that have been in the news in the last few months.

Isgchas' post makes a lot of sense, but in terms of DEMAND alone, the free market will take care of whether or not these houses are needed. Now, whether this project is APPROPRIATE (and should therefore be approved or not) is a different matter. I do think precautions can and should be made for the Red Hill folks. On the other hand, a lot of the things Dana Beach states sound appealing too. This project would set aside substantial acreage for conservation. And this area would still be able to build a significant number of homes as is, WITHOUT the conservation easement. At this point, I still need more information before passing judgement. BTW, the Red Hill folks don't seem to oppose the houses themselves as much as the widening of their road. I find it hard to believe an alternative doesn't exist.

As for this going through the county's planning process, I wouldn't worry about that. I don't remember the name of it, but a Centex subdivision in this same area did the same thing. It got County Planning approval and THEN annexed into the city. The developer has already stated he plans to annex, and it is probably necessary to get water and/or sewer anyway, or at least for a lower cost.

Nevertheless, it appears there may be a suitable compromise in the offing...

Compromise could be in the works for Red Hill

[vicupstate]

Long Savannah project plan includes 2 conservation/park areas totalling 1,800 acres

It looks like this project is progressing toward reality. This will be a major new addition to the city in many ways.

** 1,568 acres County Park/conservation area

** 232 acre city park

** 3,600 new housing units

** 3,050 acres in land area added to the city's limits.

** a large mixed income, mixed use project, intended to become a self-supporting community

I assume there will still be a vote required to move the urban boundary, but if the park funding is approved, I would think that would indicate that will happen as well.

My only fear is that the urban boundary becomes 'moveable' in other areas as well, such as John's Island.

[Charleston native]

Long Savannah project plan includes 2 conservation/park areas totalling 1,800 acres

...My only fear is that the urban boundary becomes 'moveable' in other areas as well, such as John's Island.

[krazeeboi]

^You and the wifey are expecting? Well congrats man!

[Charleston native]

Thanks Krazee! Yeah, we're expecting...going to have our first-born baby boy around November 28. We're praying that he will be healthy with all 10 fingers and toes! Now you see why I haven't been on UP for so long. I also have a full-time job at Providence Hospital, after I got my masters degree in May. YEAH BABY!!

[krazeeboi]

I'm happy for you guys and wishing you all nothing but the best. I hope things work out so that he's able to experience the Lowcountry growing up as you did.

[vicupstate]

Congrats Native !!

Congrats on Baby and the Master's degree. Since you work for the hospital, will you get a discount ?

[vicupstate]

County Council approves park purchases

The County approved spending the $ on the park, but did not agree to making the purchase contigent to moving the urban boundary. However, the movement of the boundary is still moving forward. Sounds like someone made a mistep in 'packaging' the two items. Mostly likely this is a small bump in the road, but not a showstopper.

[Charleston native]

Congrats Native !!

Congrats on Baby and the Master's degree. Since you work for the hospital, will you get a discount ?

[krazeeboi]

It looks like Charleston is poised to annex the proposed Long Savannah development and extend the urban growth boundary line in order to accommodate the plan. Supporters of the plan argue the two new public parks in connection with the development, which will cover 1,800 acres, would form a better boundary to suburban sprawl than the artificial growth boundary line that is enforced with zoning rules. Opponents moving the boundary line would set a dangerous precedent. Supporters, including Riley and the Coastal Conservation League, argue that a large mixed-use development could actually combat suburban sprawl by putting a new commercial center near existing subdivisions like Grand Oaks and Village Green. Plans call for a 1,568-acre county park and a 232-acre city park, both carved out of the 3,053 acres controlled by the developers and publicly financed.

The comments section of this article on the P&C websit is interesting, and it appears as though most are not in favor of the city annexing this development. I supposed the question is, can this development move forward even without being annexed?

[vicupstate]

Public input sought on plans for Long Savannah

As far as whether this project can be developed, the urban growth boundary is the key, not annexation per se. Annexation really doesn't have any bearing on the impact to traffic and sprawl.

If the environmentalists are on-board, I would expect this to prevail, although it may be a protracted fight.

[krazeeboi]

At the end of a weeklong charrette, draft designs of the Long Savannah development have been unveiled. I definitely like what I see.

[Spartan]

And the urban growth boundary has now successfully proved its uselessness in Charleston.

[krazeeboi]

^I'm not convinced the UGB is the ideal way to go anyway as far as taming sprawl is concerned.

[912]

How sweet...a development modeled after your neighbor to the south with the busier port! j/k

[Spartan]

I'm not either, Krazee. Portland, OR and Oregon in general have shown it to be moderately effective at best. Plus it can make home prices inflate to unsustainable levels. I've decided its really more of an issue of deciding where you transportation network will be in the future and requiring developers to build it, piece by piece. You might have a random section of road that doesn't go anywhere for a few years, but eventually it will be connected because we know growth is inevitable. So why not go ahead and get things in place now?

[knightrider162]

The Long Savannah renderings leave me excited to see this project get completed. It seems like a worthwhil project that will only add to that section of the city.

[Spartan]

Ok, that may have changed my opinion on this project somewhat. If we're going to build beyond the urban boundary, it had better always look like this.

[tennreb]

Long Savannah to be new urbanist

[ohioaninSC]

Ok, that may have changed my opinion on this project somewhat. If we're going to build beyond the urban boundary, it had better always look like this.