Question about Downtown height restrictions

[BHCav]

Question:

How long will it take for tally to get a 100+ meter COMMERCIAL building?

5 years, 10, 15, or never?

I will say 10.

[Florida]

I also think within 10 years.

[Florida]

Welcome to UrbanPlanet {sodEmoji.{sodEmoji.|}} Tallahassee South Park County!

[seminole]

Question:

How long will it take for tally to get a 100+ meter COMMERCIAL building?

5 years, 10, 15, or never?

I will say 10.

Not if the current city commission is still intact. I think Mayor Marks, and Commissioner Katz would approve it but not Lightsey, Mustian and Gillum. The jury is still out on Gillum, but I think he will probably side with the preservationist who will complain that increased height limits would destroy the historic character of downtown. Then there are state law makers and Chief Justice of State who thinks the Capitol should be the most prominent structure in Tallahassee. Some state officials, Mustian, and Lightsey initially complained about the original proposed height of Kleman Towers, so the developer made some changes in height and design.

A team composed of Mayor Marks, Former Mayor Maddox, Commissioner Katz, Former Commissioner Bailey and then throw in a Grippa or Depuy is probably what it would take to allow something of this magnitude to take place.

[BHCav]

Can someone please explain to me the "charm" and/or "character" of downtown? Granted I love dt. I love the trees, parks, and culture. But let's be honest, it's not like there is anything special here that is exclusive to Tallahassee. I hate when people say that a more dense and developed dt will ruin Tallahassee. I believe folks that are against dt developement need to travel more and leave their cave known as Leon County.

If done right we can have the best of both worlds.

[seminole]

Can someone please explain to me the "charm" and/or "character" of downtown? Granted I love dt. I love the trees, parks, and culture. But let's be honest, it's not like there is anything special here that is exclusive to Tallahassee. I hate when people say that a more dense and developed dt will ruin Tallahassee. I believe folks that are against dt developement need to travel more and leave their cave known as Leon County.

If done right we can have the best of both worlds.

I agree BHCAV. I hope to be wrong on this but some preservationist would say anything to stop progress.

I think Beth LaCivita, member of Tallahassee's Historic Preservation even referred to the historic district as Tallahassee's beach and it most be maintained. I guess they prefer dirt roads with horse and buggy (LOL!). I go through downtown a lot and there is not much there. It's not like folks are standing in line to view the historic structures.

[thetoolman]

I think Beth LaCivita, member of Tallahassee's Historic Preservation even referred to the historic district as Tallahassee's beach and it most be maintained. I guess they prefer dirt roads with horse and buggy (LOL!). I go through downtown a lot and there is not much there. It's not like folks are standing in line to view the historic structures.

Beth (is she still there? she was the Exec Dir for a while) and most of the Tallahassee Trust for Historic Preservation understand that a vibrant downtown community is a necessary component of historic preservation. They know that without DT growth, there will not be money to pay for preservation because it is very expensive.

There is also another aspect of preservation that is promoted by the TTHP called rehabilitation. This promotes renovation and re-use of historic properties when preservation is not economically viable. Such projects would preserve the character and feel of the property and style, but update it with modern elements.

And, historic preservation is not always about getting people to stand in line. Just driving down Calhoun or Gadsden or Park gives passers by a different feeling than Monroe or Apalachee.

In regards to Beth's comment, once historic properties are gone, they are gone. A few years ago I worked on a rehabilitation effort for the old county library where the tennyson now sits. While the TTHP board and I were dismayed that the project could not be economically viable, we were both very happy to see the property being put to a better and higher use. It would have been better to have been able to save the property, but in some cases (like this one), the alternative might do more good for the overall historic preservation efforts downtown.

In our project, the Trust was very helpful in contacting the right people, finding preservation and rehabilitation resources, and getting access to local, state, and federal grant money. There was even a tax credit available equal to 25% of all eligible rehabilitation costs (on our project, that was about $300,000 off our taxes over the next 10 years).

Finally, to bring this all back around to height restrictions, the historic preservation reason for height restrictions is to prevent buildings like St. Johns Episcopal Church (on Monroe) from being sandwiched in the shadows two 30-story buildings next door. Similarly, in other historic areas the height restrictions serve that purpose. And, I am pretty sure these restrictions are only in the appropriate parts of downtown (historic areas), and variances can be granted.

Tallahassee Trust for Historic Preservation

[BHCav]

In regards to Beth's comment, once historic properties are gone, they are gone. A few years ago I worked on a rehabilitation effort for the old county library where the tennyson now sits. While the TTHP board and I were dismayed that the project could not be economically viable, we were both very happy to see the property being put to a better and higher use. It would have been better to have been able to save the property, but in some cases (like this one), the alternative might do more good for the overall historic preservation efforts downtown.

Finally, to bring this all back around to height restrictions, the historic preservation reason for height restrictions is to prevent buildings like St. Johns Episcopal Church (on Monroe) from being sandwiched in the shadows two 30-story buildings next door. Similarly, in other historic areas the height restrictions serve that purpose. And, I am pretty sure these restrictions are only in the appropriate parts of downtown (historic areas), and variances can be granted.

Tallahassee Trust for Historic Preservation

What qualifies as a historical property? Age alone?

I see the point with the church, but there is nothing we can do about that. If Tallahassee continues to grow the height restrictions will eventually be lifted. There's no gettin around that. It may be some years from now, but what's the point of fighting it? At times folks round these parts act like we are Warshington DC in terms of history.

[thetoolman]

What qualifies as a historical property? Age alone?

Age alone is a qualification. In order to qualify, an application has to be submitted to get the property on the National Historic Register. Applications for properties over 50 years old, or less than 50 with some architectural, cultural or historical signficance will also be considered. Once on the register, properties remain on the register, and are subject to more scrutiny before redevelopment options will be considered.

[seminole]

Beth (is she still there? she was the Exec Dir for a while) and most of the Tallahassee Trust for Historic Preservation understand that a vibrant downtown community is a necessary component of historic preservation. They know that without DT growth, there will not be money to pay for preservation because it is very expensive.

There is also another aspect of preservation that is promoted by the TTHP called rehabilitation. This promotes renovation and re-use of historic properties when preservation is not economically viable. Such projects would preserve the character and feel of the property and style, but update it with modern elements.

And, historic preservation is not always about getting people to stand in line. Just driving down Calhoun or Gadsden or Park gives passers by a different feeling than Monroe or Apalachee.

In regards to Beth's comment, once historic properties are gone, they are gone. A few years ago I worked on a rehabilitation effort for the old county library where the tennyson now sits. While the TTHP board and I were dismayed that the project could not be economically viable, we were both very happy to see the property being put to a better and higher use. It would have been better to have been able to save the property, but in some cases (like this one), the alternative might do more good for the overall historic preservation efforts downtown.

In our project, the Trust was very helpful in contacting the right people, finding preservation and rehabilitation resources, and getting access to local, state, and federal grant money. There was even a tax credit available equal to 25% of all eligible rehabilitation costs (on our project, that was about $300,000 off our taxes over the next 10 years).

Finally, to bring this all back around to height restrictions, the historic preservation reason for height restrictions is to prevent buildings like St. Johns Episcopal Church (on Monroe) from being sandwiched in the shadows two 30-story buildings next door. Similarly, in other historic areas the height restrictions serve that purpose. And, I am pretty sure these restrictions are only in the appropriate parts of downtown (historic areas), and variances can be granted.

Tallahassee Trust for Historic Preservation

Toolman Your comments proved my point. You won't get an 18-hour downtown if people are only during drive-bys. The whole purpose is to get people out of their cars, onto the sidewalks, and into the stores (if there were any). And there isn't a block downtown that hasn't been subjected to height restrictions. Historic preservation in Tallahassee is expensive, not economically viable, and counterproductive to encouraging downtown development. Why, because history has proven it.

Show me something that's native american and I'll tell you that it's worth preserving. Everything else downtown is a lie. The culture of the true native inhabitants of the area has been destroyed, so why is it so important to preserve yours. If we can move forward, then so can everyone else. It's time to build up.

[Florida]

Although I do understand the meaning behind Tallahassee's Downtown Charm, I also agree that the historic charm isn't all that significant to many outside the FL Govt / Historic Tallahassee Era. But every city has had those areas, which in Tallahassee would be the Gadsden, Adams, some of Park Avenue area. The rest should be opened up for relaxed regulations.

[poonther]

Very interesting perspective there seminole. Definitely some food for thought! I think that the Park Avenue area is a very unique area for FL, not for say Savannah or New Orleans, but for FL I feel it should be preserved. That said, two of my favorite cities in the USA have done great things mixing the old w/the new: San Francisco and especially Boston. There's a place in Boston where an old church spire is reflected off a new all glass skyscraper that I think is very nice looking.

[thetoolman]

Toolman Your comments proved my point. You won't get an 18-hour downtown if people are only during drive-bys. The whole purpose is to get people out of their cars, onto the sidewalks, and into the stores (if there were any). And there isn't a block downtown that hasn't been subjected to height restrictions. Historic preservation in Tallahassee is expensive, not economically viable, and counterproductive to encouraging downtown development. Why, because history has proven it.

Show me something that's native american and I'll tell you that it's worth preserving. Everything else downtown is a lie. The culture of the true native inhabitants of the area has been destroyed, so why is it so important to preserve yours. If we can move forward, then so can everyone else. It's time to build up.

A very early rendering of the condo project that eventually became the Tennyson was a strange combination of the existing art deco style Old County Library surrounded by the new 12 story condo on all sides. It was unusual, and I am glad that the project did not proceed that way.

However, I think that the goals of preserving historic character while rehabilitating for a higher and better use (18 hour downtown) is a viable option. I would provide examples such as

• Paradigm

• Governor's Club

• Cool Grindz

These are businesses that provide after hours, weekend, and business day activity while retaining the historic aspect of their location. The character that this adds to the downtown area by being interspersed between great new projects such as GameDay, Plaza, Tennyson, Grande, etc provides a balance.

At the same time, if (we get a whole new county commission and) a new project is proposed that offers a compelling reason to exceed the 150' height limit, do we think that a variance would be granted? Is the mere fact that a variance is required going to spook the developers reducing interest in such a project (making financing more difficult?)

[Florida]

Our rules allow projects with substantial amount of residential units to get a variance to exceed the 150' height limit.

Plaza Tower had no trouble with theirs, although the FL Supreme Court raised concerns.