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Burn the American Flag?


monsoon

Burn the American Flag?  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it ok to burn the American Flag if it says "Made in China" on it?

    • No - It's still the Stars and Stripes
      16
    • Yes - Communist made Flag goes against US basic priciples
      9
    • No Opinion
      8


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No mater how much you dislike the persons' in leadership and the way they govern the goverment, you should respect the flag. What's makes this contury great is that you can say you hate it and not have to worry about being killed for that statement. People take their freedoms for granted all the time. As a soldier

in the US Army we treat the flag with the upmost respect. We won't let it touch the ground let only think about letting it be burned. Even if it's just a flag, it's our flag and it stands for freedom. When I was over in Iraq and those people saw that Flag on my shoulder, they looked at me with hope because they knew it stands for freedom. People are so relexed they often forget what this contury had to go through to get to this point. If you burn the flag out of lack respect for our leadership, than you are doing it for all the wrong reasons. Just think about the red that stands for the blood your four fathers have shed. Would I rather for it to be made here in the US, sure. But to me it does not matter if it's made Overseas or here because it still has the same meaning.

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Yes. My right to own a gun has protected my right of free speech. That might help explain why if I go off in a swearing rampage I get kicked off this message board. Or not.

I will give you this, however. My right to own a gun has allowed me to enjoy several tasty venison meals in my life time.

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The second amendment does not EXCLUDE private citizens with it's preface, it simply explains the logic (the reasoning) of the statement that follows. A militia can mean several things, you could argue the Minutemen are a militia.

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The second amendment does not EXCLUDE private citizens with it's preface, it simply explains the logic (the reasoning) of the statement that follows. A militia can mean several things, you could argue the Minutemen are a militia.

Agreed. However, the amendment states the intended logic behind the right to bear arms. The notion that it was meant to defend the citizens from government oppression isn't mentioned, and in fact requires a reversal of the stated logic.

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Agreed. However, the amendment states the intended logic behind the right to bear arms. The notion that it was meant to defend the citizens from government oppression isn't mentioned, and in fact requires a reversal of the stated logic.

I did a very quick search for gun quotes. This looks like they interpreted the constitution the same way I do today in these regards...

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms;

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Wasn't Hitler also big on gun control? Not that I'm saying that the pro gun control people are Hitler, but I think gun control is one type of policy that can enable a future totalitarian government to come along.

You tell us.

While you are looking, keep in mind that the free industrialized world has much more stingent controls on guns than the USA.

Gun Control does not mean Ban on Guns.

Gun Control means:

  • Requiring the owner of a gun to demonstrate that he/she is responsible enough to own a gun.

  • Registering a gun to an owner. The owner is responsible for what happens to the gun. Just like registering an automobile.

  • All munitions are tagged so they can be traced back to a purchase

  • Forbidding unnecessary weapons such as AK47s, machine guns, etc. unless assigned by special permit

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Why should I have to defend this? It's a core American value, one that has been eroded over the years. Why is the AK-47 unnecessary? It's not exactly a weapon of mass destruction. Why should the government be allowed to trace gun purchases? Isn't this supposed to be a free country? Gun registration is one major step towards confiscation. It's a little more complicated than registering a car. Why are cars registered, anyways? How much of it has to do with insurance and taxes? Gun owners are not liable unless they commit a crime or screw up like Cheney did and have charges pressed against him. Car owners need insurance to protect themselves and others from outrageous costs that can come about as a result of a traffic accident or wear and tear.

A government with the wrong intentions will make an effort to take away certain elements of its populace. We already have laws against murder, manslaughter, or attempted murder among other crimes that would be described as "gun related". It sounds cold, but for the argument of solving what is probably a relatively small number of otherwise unsolvable crimes, I feel we'd be setting up future generations (maybe even ourselves if we're unlucky) for an authoritarian government. Books have been burned, radicals have been jailed or killed, and guns have been confiscated as a precursor to tyranny.

While you are looking, keep in mind that the free industrialized world has much more stingent controls on guns than the USA.

Isn't it ironic to say that the "free" world (insinuating that the USA is not part of it) has more stringent controls of a specific individual freedom than we do?

I would be willing to listen to licensing gun owners in more of blanket fashion, and to put an end to this rediculous idea to maintain databases with who bought what stored in them. Please tell me how we have such a perfect government that there will never be a reason for the people to rise up against it. A populace that is helpless to overturn tyranny is bound to succomb to it. Everyone says it can't happen to them until it does. I'm done with this topic.

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Why is the AK-47 unnecessary? It's not exactly a weapon of mass destruction. Why should the government be allowed to trace gun purchases? Isn't this supposed to be a free country? Gun registration is one major step towards confiscation.

Why should the goverment be allowed to trace automobile registrations? Your argument is pointless as the government is not confiscating cars. They register cars to make sure the owners are being responsible owners. Same for guns. I hope that answers your question.

The AK-47 is a Soviet designed automatic weapon designed specifically to kill American soldiers. It has no other practical purpose. Someone with one of these guns could easily mow down a crowd of people in short order. I see no problem with the government restricting access to this kind of firepower. The definition of WMD is in the eyes of the beholder, but I would say that an AK-47 definately qualifies.

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I'm late to this discussion and I did not vote at all. There should be a choice labeled "Its OK to burn it regardless of where the cloth or plastic is manufactured."

I see the flag desecrated on a daily basis by its appearance in advertising, clothing (ties, shirts, sweaters, belts, etc), and as a logo for FOX News. Burning it seems far less offensive than seeing it as a logo for an Australian's media empire.

BRAVO Miesian! :good:

Given that all of the founding fathers commited treason against the government, aka the British Empire, and formed a new government, the United States, I would say they would be the first to say that a person's right to free expression, including buring the flag should be allowed. The last thing they wanted was another dictatorship like the one they overturned. It's too bad that many today would suggest that it is ok to take away certain peoples rights (flag burning) even though this is protected in the constitution, then turn right around and say that it is ok for everyone to pack heat because its in the Constitution.

I suggest a read of this.

Well said! I hope the Democratic party is able to drive points like yours home this November. I think Americans are desparate for the darkness to be lifted. :ph34r:

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sounds like a good enough alternative to me (if you have to do something to old glory rather you pull a trigger then light a match). Heck doesn't the national anthem refer to it as being shot a few times? Just have to wait a few weeks in most states to do it though, unlike that match :P, maybe this might force the repeal of some of those restrictions, "what I can't shoot my flag in New York City or the Nation's capital how dare you impede on my first admendment rights". :lol:

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I would never burn the American Flag or stand for anyone else to, even if it were made in Iraq!

Too many people have given their lives to defend it and too many people are still putting their lives on the line for it now.

My gut tells me that any US soldier would fight just as hard to protect an American flag made in China as an American flag made in the USA...it's not the cloth, it is what it represents that they protect and honor.

th_TilTheyAllComeHome.jpg

Til They All Come Home

i believe those people have given their lives to defend our freedom to burn the flag in protest of our government, not to defend our flag. the flag is a symbol of something greater... something that even allows us to burn it and still be very patriotic.

also, the proper way to dispose of an american flag is to burn it... go figure.

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While I find the idea of burning the flag especially vile, I cannot condone the use of the United States Constitution for such a trivial purpose. The Constitution should not be sullied with such trivial matters. Freedom of speech should also be safeguarded, even when the speech is full of hate. Once we tread down the path of restricting expression, it is well nigh impossible to return to the road of freedom.

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I think that if it was made in China, it most likely has toxic materials in the cloth, and should not be burned.

There are other ways to express discontent with those in power. One of those is actually voting. The people that I know personally who are of the sort to burn flags are of the sort to not vote.

Flag burning is destructive and an act of hate, and doesn't solve any problems. Voting is constructive and an act of love, and solves a multitute of problems.

So while I think all the talk of constitutional amendments banning flag burning are silly, I find the act itself silly, too. I just think people shouldn't do it, but that it should remain ambiguous as to whether it is legal or not. (If it is completely allowed with no questions, it isn't much of a political statement. If it is completely disallowed, then it would be a tacky part of the constitution, kind of like the prohibition amendment).

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I think that if it was made in China, it most likely has toxic materials in the cloth, and should not be burned.

There are other ways to express discontent with those in power. One of those is actually voting. The people that I know personally who are of the sort to burn flags are of the sort to not vote.

Flag burning is destructive and an act of hate, and doesn't solve any problems. Voting is constructive and an act of love, and solves a multitute of problems.

So while I think all the talk of constitutional amendments banning flag burning are silly, I find the act itself silly, too. I just think people shouldn't do it, but that it should remain ambiguous as to whether it is legal or not. (If it is completely allowed with no questions, it isn't much of a political statement. If it is completely disallowed, then it would be a tacky part of the constitution, kind of like the prohibition amendment).

it is not an act of hate, it's an act of protest. protesting our own government is one of the most patriotic things we can do.

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I think of 'protesting' as more like holding a sign up with your beliefs, or standing in front of something that is about to happen. Burning the symbol of a country is a little more than just a protest. It is an expression that you hate that country, or at least strongly dislike it enough to want to destroy the symbol of it.

In America, you have a right to say you hate this country. (I say it on occasion, but usually after an interaction with a really dumb person).

Burning the flag doesn't really express, "I think babies should get vaccinated" or "I think the minimum wage should be increased $1.23" or "I think that US highways should get their speed limit increased by 5 mph to be more reflective of their design standards" or even "I think that the timetable for pulling out of Iraq should be stepped up to allow for greater self-determinism by the Iraqis". It just means, I don't like the country.

Now, you could potentially put a different message on the flag before burning it, such as "Food Stamps Should Be Processed Electronically To Avoid Fraud and Improve Effectiveness In Fighting Hunger" to increase the visibility of one's message. But even that might prove to be more of a distraction.

I don't know. If it doesn't mean "I hate this country", then why burn the flag? It seems to be an ineffective way of communicating one's point of view.

Note, I still think it should be considered consitutional to do so, but I still think it is silly and ineffective to do it. It seems like people like to do it to show their friends that they are badass.

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I think of 'protesting' as more like holding a sign up with your beliefs, or standing in front of something that is about to happen. Burning the symbol of a country is a little more than just a protest. It is an expression that you hate that country, or at least strongly dislike it enough to want to destroy the symbol of it.

In America, you have a right to say you hate this country. (I say it on occasion, but usually after an interaction with a really dumb person).

Burning the flag doesn't really express, "I think babies should get vaccinated" or "I think the minimum wage should be increased $1.23" or "I think that US highways should get their speed limit increased by 5 mph to be more reflective of their design standards" or even "I think that the timetable for pulling out of Iraq should be stepped up to allow for greater self-determinism by the Iraqis". It just means, I don't like the country.

Now, you could potentially put a different message on the flag before burning it, such as "Food Stamps Should Be Processed Electronically To Avoid Fraud and Improve Effectiveness In Fighting Hunger" to increase the visibility of one's message. But even that might prove to be more of a distraction.

I don't know. If it doesn't mean "I hate this country", then why burn the flag? It seems to be an ineffective way of communicating one's point of view.

Note, I still think it should be considered consitutional to do so, but I still think it is silly and ineffective to do it. It seems like people like to do it to show their friends that they are badass.

to me, burning the flag means "i hate this government... they're treading all over what the flag stands for, so why do we need the flag anyways, i'll just burn it and show everyone what i think"

of course, that's only the case when it's done by an american in america. outside of our boundaries, it usually means "i hate america", but burning is a right we have and the freedom to do so is what the flag stands for.

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