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Fort Norfolk development

New England Transplant

By New England Transplant
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New England Transplant Whistle-Stop

New England Transplant

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I was walking in South Ghent today, which I recommend for any of you who are interested in this area. You can walk right out onto a giant pier where they used to do a lot of ship work. The contrast b/n Harbor's Edge and the old buildings is really pretty cool.

Anyway, I was walking past Moon Engineering and the owner was leaving so I asked him if he had any info on the development in the area. He had quite the scoop. I'm going to try to lay it out here as best I can remember it. If anyone has any details on this, then please help to fill us in.

1. The main areas along the waterfront are owned by a few companies that date back several years. The companies infilled approximately .75 acre of land. That land didn't exist prior to them filling it in with concrete and dirt.

2. Some investors came up from Florida to purchase the land and in the process of doing research realized that that ownership of the infill land is currently under debate. They then shyed away from the deal.

3. It is under debate b/c the state owns the "water" where the infill went.

4. The companies that own the land have been paying taxes on that "water" to the city since 1900.

5. They want to sell the property, but cannot b/c the state is claiming that they own the land.

6. The City of Norfolk also wants the land.

7. To resolve the issue, the state has to decide whether or not it owns the land.

8. If they own it, then the city needs to refund all the taxes.

9. If they do not own it, then the companies can sell it for whatever it is worth.

Does this information go along with anything that anyone else has heard? He indicated that it will likely take a good bit of time for this issue to be resolved. He also indicated that that whole area is being held up because this issue has not yet been resolved.

Personally, I hope it gets resolved soon b/c that area is prime and it could potentially be a very nice addition to Ghent and downtown.

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erdogs Burg

erdogs

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I was walking in South Ghent today, which I recommend for any of you who are interested in this area. You can walk right out onto a giant pier where they used to do a lot of ship work. The contrast b/n Harbor's Edge and the old buildings is really pretty cool.

Anyway, I was walking past Moon Engineering and the owner was leaving so I asked him if he had any info on the development in the area. He had quite the scoop. I'm going to try to lay it out here as best I can remember it. If anyone has any details on this, then please help to fill us in.

1. The main areas along the waterfront are owned by a few companies that date back several years. The companies infilled approximately .75 acre of land. That land didn't exist prior to them filling it in with concrete and dirt.

2. Some investors came up from Florida to purchase the land and in the process of doing research realized that that ownership of the infill land is currently under debate. They then shyed away from the deal.

3. It is under debate b/c the state owns the "water" where the infill went.

4. The companies that own the land have been paying taxes on that "water" to the city since 1900.

5. They want to sell the property, but cannot b/c the state is claiming that they own the land.

6. The City of Norfolk also wants the land.

7. To resolve the issue, the state has to decide whether or not it owns the land.

8. If they own it, then the city needs to refund all the taxes.

9. If they do not own it, then the companies can sell it for whatever it is worth.

Does this information go along with anything that anyone else has heard? He indicated that it will likely take a good bit of time for this issue to be resolved. He also indicated that that whole area is being held up because this issue has not yet been resolved.

Personally, I hope it gets resolved soon b/c that area is prime and it could potentially be a very nice addition to Ghent and downtown.

There was an article in the pilot a while back about this. Haven't heard anything about it lately.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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There was an article in the pilot a while back about this. Haven't heard anything about it lately.

Yeah, and I believe the article stated that this issue had been resolved by a general assembly vote. I'll have to check to make sure though.

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rusthebuss Metropolis

rusthebuss

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Yeah, and I believe the article stated that this issue had been resolved by a general assembly vote. I'll have to check to make sure though.

What was the outcome? Man this building is looking good. I have to work Sunday but when I get home from work I will post some of the pics. I also got pics and some video of Harborfest. Man it was great!

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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I was walking in South Ghent today, which I recommend for any of you who are interested in this area. You can walk right out onto a giant pier where they used to do a lot of ship work. The contrast b/n Harbor's Edge and the old buildings is really pretty cool.

Anyway, I was walking past Moon Engineering and the owner was leaving so I asked him if he had any info on the development in the area. He had quite the scoop. I'm going to try to lay it out here as best I can remember it. If anyone has any details on this, then please help to fill us in.

1. The main areas along the waterfront are owned by a few companies that date back several years. The companies infilled approximately .75 acre of land. That land didn't exist prior to them filling it in with concrete and dirt.

2. Some investors came up from Florida to purchase the land and in the process of doing research realized that that ownership of the infill land is currently under debate. They then shyed away from the deal.

3. It is under debate b/c the state owns the "water" where the infill went.

4. The companies that own the land have been paying taxes on that "water" to the city since 1900.

5. They want to sell the property, but cannot b/c the state is claiming that they own the land.

6. The City of Norfolk also wants the land.

7. To resolve the issue, the state has to decide whether or not it owns the land.

8. If they own it, then the city needs to refund all the taxes.

9. If they do not own it, then the companies can sell it for whatever it is worth.

Does this information go along with anything that anyone else has heard? He indicated that it will likely take a good bit of time for this issue to be resolved. He also indicated that that whole area is being held up because this issue has not yet been resolved.

Personally, I hope it gets resolved soon b/c that area is prime and it could potentially be a very nice addition to Ghent and downtown.

^^^^Here you go. This issue was resolved some months ago. :)

"The House of Delegates passed a bill Monday that will help make a 4-acre parcel in the rapidly transforming Atlantic City suitable for development.

The bill would authorize the governor to convey the state

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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Thanks for the link to the article. I wonder why the person at Moon was talking as if these issues had not been resolved. That doesn't make much sense. Does anyone know what the current status of this project is? What is the next phase?

It depends on which project you're referring too. Ghent South Towers is in a completely separate part of fort norfolk and was not part of the title dispute. If you're referring to Harbors Edge 2 to that is in the planning stages. If you're referring to what Moon is working on it stated in the article that they had no particular plans at this time, put they were seeking to clear up the title issues so that they may develop the land in the future.

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New England Transplant Whistle-Stop

New England Transplant

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I thought it was officially being called "south ghent." Is it now officially fort norfolk? Either one works for me.

I feel like this area has a ton of potential. The fact that the retirement center is sold out bodes well for the rest of the area. However, it seems like the towers is the only other solid thing that has made it through to the next level. I wonder when they are going to break ground for that project.

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rusthebuss Metropolis

rusthebuss

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I thought it was officially being called "south ghent." Is it now officially fort norfolk? Either one works for me.

I feel like this area has a ton of potential. The fact that the retirement center is sold out bodes well for the rest of the area. However, it seems like the towers is the only other solid thing that has made it through to the next level. I wonder when they are going to break ground for that project.

South Ghent is on the other side of Brambleton

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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Where Norfolk Sentara, EVMS, etc. is? I thought the towers were going to be called the South Ghent towers? I think that is why I assumed that area was going to be called South Ghent.

They will be but the developer was just doing that to tie it in with Ghent. They sort of have ambitions to extend ghent that far but I honestly think they should allow each district to maintain its own character without mixing them.

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sugoiben Whistle-Stop

sugoiben

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At first glance I had the same reaction as you guys about this one. But read it again. He's holding this one up cause it's selling off part of the riverbed in addition to the infill. Why it was drafted up in such a way to make claim to part of the riverbed as well, makes no sense. So he called em on it. I think he's fine with sale of the infill land that's to be developed. But I'd have to agree that part of the river itself shouldn't be getting sold off to developers.

Sounds to me like the lawyers that drafted this one up, either screwed up, or tried to pull a fast one. Which is a shame, since it's only going to further delay this project.

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rusthebuss Metropolis

rusthebuss

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At first glance I had the same reaction as you guys about this one. But read it again. He's holding this one up cause it's selling off part of the riverbed in addition to the infill. Why it was drafted up in such a way to make claim to part of the riverbed as well, makes no sense. So he called em on it. I think he's fine with sale of the infill land that's to be developed. But I'd have to agree that part of the river itself shouldn't be getting sold off to developers.

Sounds to me like the lawyers that drafted this one up, either screwed up, or tried to pull a fast one. Which is a shame, since it's only going to further delay this project.

I think the reason for part of the river bed is due to the docks they want to put there. Also if the states so concerned about the riverbed they should be paying to clean it up since it belongs to them!

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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I think the reason for part of the river bed is due to the docks they want to put there.

I thought I had heard that as well. If someone builds a dock into the waterway is the area underneath that dock considered private property or state property?

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hoobo Burg

hoobo

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I thought I had heard that as well. If someone builds a dock into the waterway is the area underneath that dock considered private property or state property?

I can't remember if private land extends to the mean high water or mean low water line, but in any case, if a dock extends beyond that defining line, the owner would require an easement. It's much like power or telephone lines that cut through public property. The owner of the lines have to get an easement from the government entity that owns it (if they're through private land, they can also obtain an easement or buy the land out right). The easement can be either exclusive (which means only their utility or structure can go in the right-of-way) or non-exclusive. I would imagine that the permitting process is much like that of adding an addition to an existing structure: make sure it is structurally sound and all papers are in line. The only reason I would imagine that these owners want ownership of the riverbed is to circumvent the permitting process and the associated costs as this would be not just a dock but a marina.

The article is vague but it appears that Wardrup uncovered a potential hoodwinking and that the original bill sponsor was unaware of what the amendment aimed to do which was to also take public riverine land rather than just the infill land.

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Glassoul Whistle-Stop

Glassoul

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If this were in VB Leo would have no problem with it! What a capital A, double capital S.

He suceeded...

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story...n=95330&tref=po

Last sentence in the article: "It also includes a provision blocking the sale of state-owned riverbed to owners of valuable waterfront property in Norfolk, a deal approved by legislators earlier this year."

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hoobo Burg

hoobo

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He suceeded...

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story...n=95330&tref=po

Last sentence in the article: "It also includes a provision blocking the sale of state-owned riverbed to owners of valuable waterfront property in Norfolk, a deal approved by legislators earlier this year."

Good, at least one legislator is watching out for swindling developers. Even the author of the original bill was "surprised" that the amendments made by the developers' lawyers (why are developers' lawyers crafting legislation anyway?) gave them ownership of river bottom in addition to the state-owned infill land. Now that the budget impass is almost over, the assembly can rewrite the bill so that the developers only get the specified infill land.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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Grant buys land for Fort Norfolk redevelopment

Rod Woolard is about to make another deal. The former CEO of Island Creek

Coal Co. who headsNorfolk’s department of development has something cooking. But he is not about to reveal his hand.But something is brewing in Fort Norfolk, probably the most desiredwaterfront property in Norfolk right

now.

This sounds big! I wonder what it could be? :D

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