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Phillydog

States Under-Represented in the Majors

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These are the 50 biggest TV Markets in the US. We all read about the importance of TV markets to sports teams. Look at the list...

Largest TV markets (from among the top 50) by state / major league teams serving each market:

California 10,262,000 / 14

NY 8,019,000 / 10 (includes portions of NJ and CT)

Florida 5,328,000 / 9

Texas 5,034,000 / 8

PA 4,801,000 / 7 (includes portions of NJ)

North Carolina 4,680,000 / 3 (includes portions of SC)

DC 3,614,000 / 6 (includes MD and portions of VA)

Illinois 3,430,000 / 5

Ohio 3,311,000 / 6 (includes portions of KY)

Michigan 2,667,000 / 4

MA 2,375,000 / 4 (includes portions of NH, ME, CT, RI)

Missouri 2,124,000 / 4

GA 2,097,000 / 4

Other TV Markets / Teams

Phoenix (Prescott) 1,660,430 / 4

Denver 1,415,180 / 4

Milwaukee 880,390 / 3

I find it interesting that the North Carolina Metro Cities' TV Market is 4.68 million (Charlotte, Raleigh, Asheville, Greensboro). They say NC can't support a MLB when other "state" teams like Arizona and Colorado; and even small "city" markets like Milwaukee (Green Bay) and Cincinnati support MLB, NBA, and NFL teams. I understand that it takes more than a TV market to support a team, but let's start here...

Are some states unfairly underrepresented by major league franchises? To me, based on these numbers, it seems just about fair. But I understand NC's frustration. Taken together, the NC TV market is hard to ignore. I can imagine a World Series with NC playing Atlanta...

Let's not rush to judgement and say "North Carolinians are just a bunch of unsophisticated rednecks. Three NC cities ranked among top 10 "Smartest" cities in the US; and, let's not forget that the bulk of NC's growth in the past 20 years has come from in-migration from the North and West...

In any case, based on these figures does it seem that the major leagues are fairly evenly spread-out among the geographic and population centers of the US?

If not, which states are most poorly represented in major league sports based on these TV market #'s?

Numbers of teams by Market:

* - 1 major league team (MLB, NHL, NFL, NBA), ** - 2, *** - 3, **** - 4

*+ - More than 4 major league teams per TV market

RANK Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Homes % of US

1 New York 7,375,530 6.692 *+

2 Los Angeles 5,536,430 5.023 ****

3 Chicago 3,430,790 3.113 *+

4 Philadelphia 2,925,560 2.654 ****

5 Boston (Manchester) 2,375,310 2.155 ****

6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,355,740 2.137 *+

7 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,336,140 2.120 ****

8 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,252,550 2.044 ****

9 Atlanta 2,097,220 1.903 ****

10 Houston 1,938,670 1.759 ***

11 Detroit 1,936,350 1.757 ****

12 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,710,400 1.552 ***

13 Seattle-Tacoma 1,701,950 1.544 ***

14 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,660,430 1.507 ****

15 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,652,940 1.500 ****

16 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,541,780 1.399 ***

17 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,522,960 1.382 ****

18 Denver 1,415,180 1.284 ****

19 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 1,345,820 1.221 *

20 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 1,345,700 1.221 *

21 St. Louis 1,222,380 1.109 **

22 Pittsburgh 1,169,800 1.061 ***

23 Portland, OR 1,099,890 0.998 *

24 Baltimore 1,089,220 0.988 **

25 Indianapolis 1,053,750 0.956 *

26 San Diego 1,026,160 0.931 **

27 Charlotte 1,020,130 0.926 **

28 Hartford & New Haven 1,013,350 0.919

29 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 985,200 0.894 *

30 Nashville 927,500 0.842 **

31 Kansas City 903,540 0.820 **

32 Columbus, OH 890,770 0.808 * (See Cinci and Cleveland)

33 Milwaukee 880,390 0.799 *** (Green Bay)

34 Cincinnati 880,190 0.799 **

35 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevlle 815,460 0.740

36 Salt Lake City 810,830 0.736 *

37 San Antonio 760,410 0.690 *

38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 751,930 0.68239 (See Miami)

39 Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk 731,630 0.664 (See Detroit)

40 Birmingham (Ann, Tusc) 716,520 0.650

41 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 707,010 0.641

42 Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws 704,810 0.640 (See Pittsburgh / Philly)

43 New Orleans 672,150 0.610 **

44 Memphis 657,670 0.597 *

45 Oklahoma City 655,400 0.595

46 Albuquerque-Santa Fe 653,680 0.593

47 Greensboro-H.Point-W.Salem 652,020 0.592

48 Las Vegas 651,110 0.591

49 Buffalo 644,430 0.585 **

50 Louisville 643,290 0.584

The full list (of 210 markets) is located here: 210 US TV Markets

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Just a few corrections I noticed without much study...

Florida has 9 major league teams not 8.

Pennsylvania has 7 not 6.

Cleveland has 3 not 2.

Pittsburgh has 3 not 2.

Huge drop off once you hit TV market size 19 on down.

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Just a few corrections I noticed without much study...

Florida has 9 major league teams not 8.

Pennsylvania has 7 not 6.

Cleveland has 3 not 2.

Pittsburgh has 3 not 2.

Huge drop off once you hit TV market size 19 on down.

Thanks for the corrections! I'll modify the numbers.

Yes, huge drop off in teams after 19 (except Wisconsin) but not in #'s of viewers.

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Problem with this is that sports team "territories" do not match up with US Census MSA's (if that is what they are calling them nowadays).

If you want to place a team anywhere between Kansas City (or really St. Louis or Dallas) and the West Coast you HAVE to pick Denver. Whereas North Carolina has lots of fans of the Braves (just a few hours drive from most of the state) and Orieols/Nationals (again just a few hours drive from some of the state).

You also have a deep deep tradition of college sports in NC competeing for those sports dollars. UNC, Wake Forest, Duke, NCState, even Clemson, VT, Virginia and Tennessee just over the border in Knoxville.

Colorado really only has Nebraska and CU possibly Utah then nothing.

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Springfield Mass is 25 miles away from Hartford, you can see the skylines from the other city on clear days, but are considered separate markets. Springfield accounted for a portion of the Whalers fans in the area, but doesn't physically show up on any "official" stat sheets. If you add the 2 together, Hartford ranks at number 21, right above St. Louis....

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Im not sure what that list is conveying. It's a little foggy. How does North Carolina, Have almost the same number as PA, when PA, has about four million more people than North Carolina? I mean I get that's it's drawn from other states. But if you're talking about attracting pro sports franchises, I wouldn't think that an SC resident would be very likely to cheer on an NC team. It's kind of the reason Milwaukee, may be shown as having a smaller market. But WI, has a sizeable state population, all drawn to the same teams. I really have no idea what i'm talking about. Other than being confused by numbers.

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Colorado really only has Nebraska and CU possibly Utah then nothing.

What are you talking about? Nebraska is in Nebraska. Colorado isn't just CU, it also has Colorado St and Air Force, which has similar average attendance as Pitt does most years.

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. . . and how does Pitt (NOT in a "college town" so more similar to a BC or NW in attendance then a "whole town shuts down" when Bobby Bowden, Bear Bryant, Barry Switzer, Joe Paterno etc. starts pacing the sidelines) and then I guess CU and AirForce (an anamoly since the military academies have a different demo of fan base) compare with the question on the table,

Duke, UNC, NCState, NC Wilmington, Wake Forest?

If my point was that NC had much more competition from traditional college programs going back decades then say Colorado or the Denver franchise areas had, then comparing those universities to Pittsburgh only proves my point further. Pitt has quite a following but NOTHING like a UNC-Duke game or an NCState football game.

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Problem with this is that sports team "territories" do not match up with US Census MSA's (if that is what they are calling them nowadays).

If you want to place a team anywhere between Kansas City (or really St. Louis or Dallas) and the West Coast you HAVE to pick Denver. Whereas North Carolina has lots of fans of the Braves (just a few hours drive from most of the state) and Orieols/Nationals (again just a few hours drive from some of the state).

You also have a deep deep tradition of college sports in NC competeing for those sports dollars. UNC, Wake Forest, Duke, NCState, even Clemson, VT, Virginia and Tennessee just over the border in Knoxville.

Colorado really only has Nebraska and CU possibly Utah then nothing.

Only one tiny part of NC, and a tiny part of the population, is within a "few hours" of Atlanta or Washington, DC. It's like saying Pittsburgh is only a few hours away from Cleveland or Buffalo and so, Pittsburgh has too many major league teams. Too often, Northerners assume that, just because it's the South - or, more specifically, the Southeast, "what's the difference?" between Georgia, Virginia, NC, TN, SC, etc.? Again, it's just as ridiculous an assumption as Southerners assuming that Pittsburghers are no different from Clevelanders, Philadelphians, or New Yorkers, with no unique history, politics, economics, perspectives, culture. Or, in this case, deserve for their own major league sports teams.

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^^ You make some great points. Part of it is the traditions of the regions, the south has much more tradition (that I am envious of) of college teams, whereas with few exceptions the north is almost exclusively major league teams. Take the dearth of college football or even college basketball in metro NY.

I think in one way Pittsburgh and Cleveland are much much closer then either lets on, even Philly to a degree, but I think to say NC is as Washington or Atlanta as center city of both is--I agree--a sweeping generalization.

The problem in my mind though gets back to the sports traditions of the regions, for decades (albeit ancient history) the Washington Redskins monopolized everything east of New Mexico and south of Baltimore--literally. The Dallas Cowboys had to get a waiver to start a Texas team in the early 60's. The Braves have a similar view on the "region" and going to college in Central Florida I saw firsthand the split in population after the Marlins and then DevilRays moved in, I would guess a good chunk of central and south Florida actually still roots for the Braves even after 2 World Series by Florida teams.

This isn't to say that sports in Miami and Atlanta and Charlotte equal each respective city not having a very unique culture, history and politics, sports though is more regional especially compared to the NE and Industrial mid-west.

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^^^ Good points Pgh. Here's another observation about the appeal of college sports in the South...forever, they were the only game in town, and in NC - projected to be the 7th biggest state in population (12 million +) in 24 years - it's still largely the only game in town. Nevertheless, in any case, there is no tradition for college baseball in the South and as you know, loyality to any particular major league team dies hard (think: Hartford Whalers). There's isn't a vaccuum of fan support in places like NC but while people in places without MLB are fans of the Braves or Orioles, in the case of the Florida teams, their fan base will certainly grow or in the case of NC - plant a team there and I believe people will be glad to have the opportunity to kick the Braves around...

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I agree that the dynamics have and will continue to change drastically in NC, I still remember when Charlotte looked more like Scranton or Harrisburg rather then the global corporate and financial center it is today. I am certain within a decade or so MLB will give that region a shot.

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Pgh,

Funny that mentioned college baseball not hving much of an impact in NC - what a difference a day makes. UNC is moving on to play for the national championship...

Do you think Charlotte's making a mistake building a minor league baseball stadium that can't be expanded?

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. . . yeah they should have learned from us, we build the smallest park in the majors (well minors considering how the Succos are playing now) and then they flop down the biggest single baseball game of any season on it. Try to squeeze in all those Yankee, Braves, Mets, and Dodger fans into something very beautiful (ranked #1 by ESPN) but only 30,000 some seats?!?

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Personally Im suprised Birmingham doesnt have an NFL Team. You mean to tell me that Auburn/Alabama fans wouldnt fill any stadium every Sunday. Once they got behind a team they would be lifelong supporters.

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Pgh,

Can Pittsburgh retain the Penguins????

It would a tragedy if they left town.

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What is putting MLB and potential owners off is the lack of a single market for NC. Three vastlly different metros with about a mill and half. I wonder if this is truly the issue. I remember hearing about MLB in the Triad (Greensboro Winston High Point) area a while ago. For starters what would the teams identity be. That is why I don't like regional teams. Second who was going to pick up the financing for the stadium, roads and so on. The history of the Triad cities has not been cordial when it comes to working together. I agree the fanbase would grow with time. Charlotte did not have a huge football fanbase to rely on before the Panthers came. If a team comes let it go to Charlotte. If big time baseball can't survive there then it won't survive anywhere else in NC for the forseeable future.

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19 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 1,345,820 1.221 * under represented

20 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 1,345,700 1.221 * under represented

23 Portland, OR 1,099,890 0.998 * under represented

25 Indianapolis 1,053,750 0.956 * under represented

28 Hartford & New Haven 1,013,350 0.919 under represented

30 Nashville 927,500 0.842 ** over represented

31 Kansas City 903,540 0.820 ** over represented

33 Milwaukee 880,390 0.799 *** over represented

34 Cincinnati 880,190 0.799 ** over represented

35 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevlle 815,460 0.740 under represented

38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 751,930 0.68239 under represented

39 Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk 731,630 0.664 under represented

40 Birmingham (Ann, Tusc) 716,520 0.650 under represented

41 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 707,010 0.641 under represented

42 Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws 704,810 0.640 under represented

43 New Orleans 672,150 0.610 ** over represented

49 Buffalo 644,430 0.585 ** over represented

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St. Louis has 3 teams, not 2 (Blues, Cardinals, Rams).

Buffalo's numbers look artificially small because its Canadian fanbase is not included in US Tv Market.

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19 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 1,345,820 1.221 * under represented

20 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 1,345,700 1.221 * under represented

23 Portland, OR 1,099,890 0.998 * under represented

25 Indianapolis 1,053,750 0.956 * under represented

28 Hartford & New Haven 1,013,350 0.919 under represented

30 Nashville 927,500 0.842 ** over represented

31 Kansas City 903,540 0.820 ** over represented

33 Milwaukee 880,390 0.799 *** over represented

34 Cincinnati 880,190 0.799 ** over represented

35 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevlle 815,460 0.740 under represented

38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 751,930 0.68239 under represented

39 Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk 731,630 0.664 under represented

40 Birmingham (Ann, Tusc) 716,520 0.650 under represented

41 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 707,010 0.641 under represented

42 Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws 704,810 0.640 under represented

43 New Orleans 672,150 0.610 ** over represented

49 Buffalo 644,430 0.585 ** over represented

25 Indianapolis has two teams and is probably appropriately represented.

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Birmingham is one of the most deprived in my opinion. Almost everyone in the state of Alabama would love a pro team in any sport. Studies show that Birmingham could support any pro team except for Major League Baseball.

Alabamians are football addicts, put a modern pro team in their hands and they go crazy.

Of course, we still have University of Alabama, and Auburn University football, they'd compete with the pro football team, but I think they'd survive. U of A has to much of a legacy to die.

A lot of cities in the south are under represented.

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Of course, we still have University of Alabama, and Auburn University football, they'd compete with the pro football team, but I think they'd survive. U of A has to much of a legacy to die.

I think in Alabama, especially in the Birmingham-Tuscaloosa area, U of A football might be a much bigger problem to an NFL team than vis versa. The legacy is so long that it could become a major problem for an NFL team in terms of attendance and overall fan support. I could be wrong, but in that area it just seems like NFL football would take a distant backseat to the Crimson Tide, and that might be one reason why there isn't, or ever has been, an NFL team in Birmingham.

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I think in Alabama, especially in the Birmingham-Tuscaloosa area, U of A football might be a much bigger problem to an NFL team than vis versa. The legacy is so long that it could become a major problem for an NFL team in terms of attendance and overall fan support. I could be wrong, but in that area it just seems like NFL football would take a distant backseat to the Crimson Tide, and that might be one reason why there isn't, or ever has been, an NFL team in Birmingham.

Well, Birmingham has had more pro football teams in the past than most cities larger than Bham in the country. U of A pretty much did them in.

I don't know why I said that the university football might die. But, yea, I think I meant to say it the way u said it.

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Although this is an american poll or whatever, but Toronto would be prime for a NFL team. When the CFL was able to acquire NFL like talent (before NFL got big with tv and all that) football was the talk of the town. People here still LOVE football, the NFL casual beats out hockey in Ratings over here. More people in the GTA watch the superbowl than they do the stanley cup finals. etc...

A lot of you probably don't know this, but Toronto and football go back 100+ years eventhough the game they play here professionally is a little different, it is pretty much the same goal. NFL has a huge following here, 30 % of the bills season tickets owners are from southern ontario.

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