The Scottsdale thread

[MJLO]

Ok so I was doing a little to much ranting in the economy thread, figured I might as well create an entirely new topic. Tell me about Scottsdale guys, what are your opinions on it. I had heard little about Scottsdale until my folks moved here a few years back. But working in Scottsdale really made me dislike the city. They seems to put crap anywhere there. I'm sure someone can show me how it really is. I've been downtown Scottsdale, definately seems as where the majority of the developement is going. Not bad. But I think Scottsdales Developement creates somewhat of a vacuum on Phoenix stiffling it from reaching it's potential sooner. Like I said i'm not a big fan, I hope the residents realize that exclusive communities are everywhere and to me Scottsdale is largely unimpressive. I know that the Donald wanted to build a tower there, but I think he pulled out because of a few NIMBY's.

A couple of quick Scottsdale facts

The city is 185 mi sq

and was estimated to have 221,000 residents as of 2004.

Can someone shed a little light on this community for me?

[colin]

Scottsdale is probably the premium address right now in the Valley. It has a rep as a hip, elite community, and a lot of it is, I think.

It's an interesting mix of things though, I think. Downtown has that cowboy-themed area, the West Mall arts area, a baseball stadium and the retail district around the Fashion Square mall. Northern Scottsdale has all of the golf courses and gated communities. There's also quite a few offices there, particularly around the 101 when it's not on the res.

In most of AZ, certainly in Tucson, saying you're from Scottsdale can get you labelled as a snob. Like I said, it just has an elitist reputation. Even though there are some middle class areas in the southern portion, the wealthy stuff overshadows it.

I must say that I enjoyed Taliesin West when I went there. The area around it is also gorgeous. Scottsdale also apparently has the only date store in the area. They grow the dates in Gila Bend, but the store is there. I was on a medjool kick when I first came to AZ, and made it a special point to stop there once.

[loftguy]

Ahhhh..... Now here's a thread!!

http://www.phxloftnetwork.com/templates/se...-view.php?id=45

Camelview is one of the biggest, high profile developments I have ever seen

Hotel Valley Ho rennovation is sick- you should eat at Trader Vic's/ ZuZu sometime or stay there- total MCM.. (pics below at the bottom section)

Safari Drive is right across the street from Camelview-

Portales Place right behind Camelview,

Waterfront just on the other side of Fashion Square- (retail and towers) as well as Main Street Plaza and west a little- Residences on Main..

All high dollar projects...

[colin]

Is it just me, or does much of the recent Phoenix architecture quite often look like a sort of Frank Lloyd Wright rip-off?

I think Wright was brilliant, but I'm always frustrated with the Arizona architects and their insistence on Wright as being the definitive architect, thus reflecting his ideas heavily upon their designs. I've always thought that, in any art, influences should only be used as a resource and not a reliance. Otherwise, it's just bordering on plagarism.

I've also always been worried about homogeneity in the Valley because of this. I'd rather have no new urban development than a city of structures that all look the same.

Maybe it's just me.

[MJLO]

I don't disagree, and i'm not a fan of a bunch of boxes randomly arranged to make a building. But I think the huge Frank Lloyd Wright presence you feel, has something to do with the Frank Lloyd Wright School of architecture. Among other things, didn't FLW call AZ home?

[loftguy]

I personally love the Modern look-

I think there is a good amount of difference on these projects?

At least it is putting AZ on the map in some way...

[MJLO]

Me personally I don't care so much for the modern look. I like looking at a building and think it's beautiful, not ugh that building was build in the 19--'s (fill in the blank).

[colin]

Me personally I don't care so much for the modern look. I like looking at a building and think it's beautiful, not ugh that building was build in the 19--'s (fill in the blank).

I agree. There are beautiful older buildings just as there are beautiful newer buildings, especially in Phoenix.

I like a lot of the Modernist styles though, especially those which look like they're from the 60's, I guess because they just provide a sort of camp value and nostalgic presence that's distinctly American. This is what originally turned me on to Tucson, actually. There are some shops on the near north side that look like they're right out of 1965, and I like that.

But the design still needs to be tasteful and unique enough so that you can remember it. Homogeneity does no one any good.

What I don't like is that red-brick ranch house that dots every street in many neighborhoods, or those stucco-clad blue or brown/white homes that look like they could have come off of an assembly line.

But maybe in 20 years, those will be nostalgic in the same way Modernism is now.

[MJLO]

well I personally am not a fan of much that came out of the 50's and 60's . The cheese grater buildings do little for me.

Wow I kinda derailed the Scottsdale thread there didn't I? My Question about Scottsdale, is what is the long term plan for the city? Do they have one? Are they happy enough walling themselves off from the rest of the valley and pretending like we dont exist. That's kind of how it feels when they don't support a metro line, and refuse to make themselves a walkable community. Of all places you'd think that a place that comes off as pretentious would want a light rail corridor, it would do wonders for the "image".

[Inkdaub]

I remember...not that long ago...when the Princess was in the middle of nowhere. Like the JW Marriott or Desert Ridge(Fatburger) now or at least three years ago. Now the Princess has been swallowed by development and sits in the middle of a neighborhood like the Phoenician. So it goes. Scottsdale will creep north and pretty soon Pinnacle Peak will be like Camelback. As far as planning...I haven't seen evidence of any sort of plan for Scottsdale. Just build and build some more.

Taliesin West is Wright's architecture school and it is in Scottsdale. The original Taliesin is in Wisconsin.

[colin]

Now the Princess has been swallowed by development and sits in the middle of a neighborhood like the Phoenician.

Same thing happened to the San Carlos in Chandler. The Valley is no longer really viable for the "get away from the city" marketing. Instead, now, you've got a resort/spa in the city angle that actually works a little better, I think, certainly for those wanting to get away but not so far away that they lose their precious shopping mall or Chili's/Macaroni Grill/fill-in-the-blank PoS chain place.

Wow I kinda derailed the Scottsdale thread there didn't I? My Question about Scottsdale, is what is the long term plan for the city? Do they have one? Are they happy enough walling themselves off from the rest of the valley and pretending like we dont exist. That's kind of how it feels when they don't support a metro line, and refuse to make themselves a walkable community. Of all places you'd think that a place that comes off as pretentious would want a light rail corridor, it would do wonders for the "image".

I'm sure they have a plan. All Valley cities seem to.

[edit]

http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/generalplan/Default.asp

Also found this in their plans regarding Downtown wi-fi:

"WildFire will charge user fees ranging from $3.75 per hour to $29 per month for standard service, or $39.85 monthly for enhanced service with greater speed. Users will be able to gain free access to Web sites operated by the city, Scottsdale Area Chamber of Commerce, Scottsdale Convention and Visitors Bureau and the Scottsdale Unified School District."

I'm really sick of corporations trying to make a small fortune off of wi-fi. It makes no sense: the infrastructure is ridiculously cheap, and you most likely already have an internet connection. Not to gloat, but Downtown Tucson has had two free, public wi-fi hotspots for almost a year now.

[/edit]

That's a good point. I never thought about the whole image thing. I think Scottsdale would be happier with something flashier, like a big ol' monorail (cue Simpsons monorail song).

I still think it's the fear of bringing in those dirty Phoenix people from Downtown and the north side, which is what kills a lot of transit expansion proposals. I mean, Valley Metro barely even has bus service into Scottsdale, and I'm sure that's there just so that their maids can get to work (whoops, did i just type that?).

Maybe Scottsdale will open its own line eventually, with one indirect connection to the rest of the system. I can certainly see that happening.

[colin]

I was poking around Valley demographics this morning.

In 2000, Scottsdale was 92.2% white. That has to be close to a record.

BTW, of the 9 AZ cities with 100,000+ people in 2000 (including Gilbert), Tucson had the lowest with 70% white.

Source

[edit]

Had to add that Livonia, MI is apparently widely considered the "Whitest City in America" and had over 95% white population in 2000. So, Scottsdale's certainly close and has something to strive for, which is actually kinda sad.

[/edit]

[MJLO]

Livonia, is an upper middle class suburb in Detroit. Most of Detroits suburbs show this kind of segregation. Nowhere in the country will you find a core city that's more than 80 percent African in decent, whereas the suburbs are more than 90 percent the other way. Very few of the Detroit burbs, are diverse. Southfield, Sterling Heights, and Dearborn, are really the only ones that come to mind.

The Phoenix area is different since, it's growth came after the manufacturing boom of the beggining of last century. There are very few African-Americans in this area. It's pretty much all latino. I can see Scottsdale being segregated. I can also see the city government touting that as it's motto to attract more arrogant "WASP's"

[colin]

Scottsdale restauranteurs hope risque name draws crowds, not disgust

I saw this on "The Daily Show" tonight and was especially interested by the fact that it's in Scottsdale.

It's a Vegas-based chain serving upscale Tex Mex. Sounds like a good fit in Scottsdale, except for the name. It's certainly funny that people want it changed though.

[MJLO]

lmfao! I would totally eat there.

[MJLO]

I wonder, do we have any Scottsdale forumers? How about Scottsdale lurkers? If you are reading this forum and have opinions, please contribute. I have a very unfavorable opinion of Scottsdale, from it's residents on down to it's gov't. Is there someone out there willing to try and change my mind?

[loftguy]

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_dai...lms/index.jhtml.

Look for link to Ed Helms - title is Box Lunch.

Scottsdale is amazing...

I live in Tempe but my heart is in Old Town. The club scene (nightlife) is amazing... Shopping galore...

This may sound very caddy and immateur, but the chicks in Scottsdale are smoking...

If you try to quote me on that I'll deny it!

Anyways- I think Scottsdale has a bad wrap- like L.A.-

That is usually just a sign of a trendy, fast paced city... And let's not forget the $$$ flowing through!

Lots of great schools, most of the cool development is in Old Town...

-Just my opinion though...

[MJLO]

Right on Joel, I consider you an expert of the valley, especially when put next to me. One thing about Scottsdale that I could not stand was the disengenuousness of it's residents. Talk about a bunch of upper middle class suburbanites trying to pass for Rich! The difference is, it's called credit. And alot of them are maxed! (mjlo's catty comment of the night). But really, I've seen some nice things in Scottsdale, but the people really turned me off. I stick to Mesa with it's Early twenties guys in their white shirts/ black ties. Bikes with helmets. Go Elders Go!

[loftguy]

Nice!

-We call them $30,000 millioniares.

It may be worse than you think!!! Trust me- I go out a lot...

-And the gym's (especially LA Fitness on Scottsdale rd and McDowell) are a social event- girls wear makeup...

But there are so many compensating factors!!

You should go to Old Town one night and bounce around- it's fun...

[MJLO]

Im pretty sure i'm planning on it. I think we should look into a meet up of some kind, perhaps when colins, constantly moving rear end swings up our way for a weekend.

[colin]

My ass actually prefers bar stools. I've only been to one club that I enjoyed. They're usually a little too social for me.

I did go to some club/bar/steakhouse in Scottsdale about a year ago, right by the big mall. VERY Scottsdale though (i.e. - image-conscious). I went with some people who had money, so I got my fill of carne y vino and paid nothing.

Next show in Phoenix is on the 28th, but the band is not worth the drive on a Tuesday. A meet definitely sounds good though. I'll certainly notify when I get up there again.

[MJLO]

Right on, I'm not a big fan of the club scene myself. I do like to dance, but I can't stomach people who are pretentious. Kind of older versions of that MTV crowd. Not for me. I'm more of a semi quiet atmosphere, while I drink a long Island kind of guy. I like going to bars, where I can hear what the person across the table is saying to me. ( that is without them shouting at the top of their lungs).

[loftguy]

Did you go to City Hall?

Scottsdale has bars too- Dos Gringos, Gilligins, Martini Ranch, Maloneys...

[MJLO]

I have not been to any bar since I've lived here. I take that back, I went to Fat Tuesdays out in North Phoenix, in that shopping center on Tatum. That was a while ago though.

[MJLO]

does anyone have any new thoughts on Scottsdale?