People say we're a fat city but

[TheGerbil]

every time I see a ranking of the fattest cities we're not on it.

This posting was prompted by an article I saw today: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10737777/

Not sure what data they used, but I think it is a hopeful sign that we aren't on there. We're not among the "fittest" either but one thing at a time I guess.

I wish people would quit saying everyone here is fat etc. Even if this ranking is meaningless, I doubt it's any worse here than the rest of the country.

[PghUSA]

The reason we never show up on either is usually these lists are based on the top 50 U.S. cities, and we are a top 25 U.S. City in metro terms but not with our puny 55.5 sq. mile muzzle that Hburg keeps on us. So again to Wall Street, Hollywood Blvd., Madison Avenue and Pennsylvania Avenue (Congress, Lobbyists and the White House), we just don't exist. C-O-N-S-O-L-I-D-A-T-E!

[Evergrey]

I've always thought Pittsburgh was a rather fit city... especially when you have to walk up all those hills!

[TheGerbil]

The reason we never show up on either is usually these lists are based on the top 50 U.S. cities, and we are a top 25 U.S. City in metro terms but not with our puny 55.5 sq. mile muzzle that Hburg keeps on us. So again to Wall Street, Hollywood Blvd., Madison Avenue and Pennsylvania Avenue (Congress, Lobbyists and the White House), we just don't exist. C-O-N-S-O-L-I-D-A-T-E!

Hm, I didn't think about that.

But wait.. I see Tucson and Albequerque on there. I am sure those cities are smaller.

I still want consolidation though

[PghUSA]

Here is the list based on 2004 Census projections:

1 New York City, New York 8,104,079

2 Los Angeles, California 3,845,541

3 Chicago, Illinois 2,862,244

4 Houston, Texas 2,012,626

5 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 1,470,151

6 Phoenix, Arizona 1,418,041

7 San Diego, California 1,263,756

8 San Antonio, Texas 1,236,249

9 Dallas, Texas 1,210,393

10 San Jose, California 904,522

11 Detroit, Michigan 900,198

12 Indianapolis, Indiana 784,242

13 Jacksonville, Florida 777,704

14 San Francisco, California 744,230

15 Columbus, Ohio 730,008

16 Austin, Texas 681,804

17 Memphis, Tennessee 671,929

18 Baltimore, Maryland 636,251

19 Fort Worth, Texas 603,337

20 Charlotte, North Carolina 594,359

21 El Paso, Texas 592,099

22 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 583,624

23 Seattle, Washington 571,480

24 Boston, Massachusetts 569,165

25 Denver, Colorado 556,835

26 Louisville, Kentucky 556,332

27 Washington, District of Columbia 553,523

28 Nashville, Tennessee 546,719

29 Las Vegas, Nevada 534,847

30 Portland, Oregon 533,492

31 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 528,042

32 Tucson, Arizona 512,023

33 Albuquerque, New Mexico 484,246

34 Long Beach, California 476,564

35 New Orleans, Louisiana 462,269

36 Cleveland, Ohio 458,684

37 Fresno, California 457,719

38 Sacramento, California 454,330

39 Virginia Beach, Virginia 447,000

40 Kansas City, Missouri 444,387

41 Mesa, Arizona 437,454

42 San Juan, Puerto Rico 430,257

43 Atlanta, Georgia 419,122

44 Omaha, Nebraska 409,416

45 Oakland, California 397,976

46 Tulsa, Oklahoma 383,764

47 Miami, Florida 379,724

48 Honolulu, Hawaii 377,260

49 Minneapolis, Minnesota 373,943

50 Colorado Springs, Colorado 369,363

Pittsburgh is invisible to anyone crunching stats in that matrix above. That is the danger of having only 55 sq. miles of land and close to 2 million "out of towners" calling themselves Pittsburghers.

[UrbaniDesDev]

Here is a more accurate listing by metropolitan areas. Note our ranking compared to the much touted Vegas(32), Charlotte(37), Orlando(28) or even Cleveland(23). (In this list Akron is listed as a separate entity and is #69 @702,078) This shows how much we have been underated due to the cities small foot print. This must change.

CONSOLIDATE!!!

Rank Metropolitan Statistical Area State(s) and/or Territory 1 July 2004

Population Estimate

1 New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island NY-NJ-PA ........18,709,802

2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana CA .....................................12,925,330

3 Chicago-Naperville-Joliet IL-IN-WI ..............................................9,391,515

4 Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington PA-NJ-DE-MD ............................5,800,614

5 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington TX ....................................................5,700,256

6 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach FL .........................................5,361,723

7 Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown TX .................................................5,180,443

8 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria DC-VA-MD-WV ...........................5,139,549

9 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta GA ..............................................4,708,297

10 Detroit-Warren-Livonia MI .........................................................4,493,165

11 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy MA-NH ..............................................4,424,649

12 San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont CA ...........................................4,153,870

13 Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario CA ........................................3,793,081

14 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale AZ .....................................................3,715,360

15 Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue WA ....................................................3,166,828

16 Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington MN-WI ....................................3,116,206

17 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos CA ..........................................2,931,714

18 St. Louis MO-IL ........................................................................2,764,05

4

19 Baltimore-Towson MD ...............................................................2,639,213

20 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater FL ..........................................2,587,967

21 Pittsburgh PA ....................................................................2,401,575

22 Denver-Aurora CO ...................................................................2,330,146

23 Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor OH .......................................................2,137,073

24 Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton OR-WA .......................................2,064,336

25 Cincinnati-Middletown OH-KY-IN .................................................2,058,221

26 Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Roseville CA ...................................2,016,702

27 Kansas City MO-KS ...................................................................1,925,319

28 Orlando-Kissimmee FL ...............................................................1,861,707

29 San Antonio TX .........................................................................1,854,0

50

30 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara CA ..........................................1,741,431

31 Columbus OH ...........................................................................1,693

,906

32 Las Vegas-Paradise NV ..............................................................1,650,671

33 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News VA-NC ...............................1,644,250

34 Providence-New Bedford-Fall River RI-MA ....................................1,628,808

35 Indianapolis-Carmel IN ..............................................................1,621,613

36 Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis WI .............................................1,515,738

37 Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord NC-SC .............................................1,474,734

38 Austin-Round Rock TX ................................................................1,412,271

39 Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro TN ............................................1,395,879

40 New Orleans-Metairie-Kenner LA ..................................................1,319,589

41 Memphis TN-MS-AR ....................................................................1,250,293

42 Jacksonville FL ...........................................................................1,225

,381

43 Louisville-Jefferson County KY-IN ................................................1,200,847

44 Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford CT ......................................1,184,564

45 Buffalo-Niagara Falls NY ..............................................................1,154,378

46 Richmond VA .............................................................................1,1

54,317

47 Oklahoma City OK ......................................................................1,144,327

48 Birmingham-Hoover AL ...............................................................1,082,193

49 Rochester NY .............................................................................1,0

41,499

50 Salt Lake City UT .......................................................................1,018,826

[urbanophile]

Interesting how three of the top 25 largest metros in the country are partly in Pennsylvania - Philly, Pittsburgh, and .... New York.

[urbanophile]

I actually don't know why there's all this talk about Pittsburgh being underrated. It is the 21st largest metro in the country and I think it does indeed get the attention that a 21st largest metro in the country should get. Sure it doesn't get as much attention as the Atlantas and Seattles but those are bigger areas (Atlanta being in the top 10). I think Pittsburgh actually does get the same amount of attention as its peers (Cleveland, Baltimore, St. Louis, Cincinatti).

[PghUSA]

^^Because the default ranking (and the one politicians and Wall Street wizards use because it is the only reliable political and muni bond ranking system) is the city limit populations. Pittsburgh doesn't exist, we might as well be Atlantis, Pennsylvania or something. People in business, fashion, mass media and doleing out billions in federal funds don't have time for the details and they influence every decision maker down the line.

Metro #s are looked at, especially by mass media and advertisers but if you talk to major companies, government grants, wall street venture capitalists they want to look at stats that reflect solidarity of zoning, taxes, codes, leadership, etc. etc. and the only stat that reflects that is city vs. city not metro (where in Pittsburgh's case there are literally thousands of muni codes, zoning, police and crime stats, leaders, etc.).

If your not on the list, a wall street wizard or Congressional staffer with 4 cell phones don't have the time of day to go down and study census tables. You simply aren't there.

Not consolidating affects each and every one of us in our prosperity, safety and ability to get our tax investments back. That is how serious this is.

[TheGerbil]

I actually don't know why there's all this talk about Pittsburgh being underrated. It is the 21st largest metro in the country and I think it does indeed get the attention that a 21st largest metro in the country should get. Sure it doesn't get as much attention as the Atlantas and Seattles but those are bigger areas (Atlanta being in the top 10). I think Pittsburgh actually does get the same amount of attention as its peers (Cleveland, Baltimore, St. Louis, Cincinatti).

I guess my thing is, there are cities listed below us that get a lot more attention. Austin, TX for example. Also Charlotte (although apparently there is some disagreement about how much attention it really gets, haha).

Plus, I think that indeed a lot of people expect Pgh to be much lower on that list than it is.

Funny how this topic changed so much!

[PghUSA]

^^true it has changed . . . I just want to know how fat or fit are we, I guess the answer isn't a simple # but consolidate already so we're in the top 50!

[urbanophile]

I guess my thing is, there are cities listed below us that get a lot more attention. Austin, TX for example. Also Charlotte (although apparently there is some disagreement about how much attention it really gets, haha).

Plus, I think that indeed a lot of people expect Pgh to be much lower on that list than it is.

Funny how this topic changed so much!

Austin and Charlotte get the attention they get because they are booming areas that area attractive to younger people and thus generate buzz. They don't get noticed because they are big. Rather, many people in the age group that marketers cater to and that make the most noise (people in their 20's and 30's) are attracted to them because that's where the jobs are. In many ways, though, they are the exceptions to the rule. Most metros the size of Pittsburgh actually don't get much attention. I'm talking about Cincy, Cleveland, St. Louis, Baltimore, etc. The bottom line as to the reason why Pittsburgh isn't getting noticed is that it isn't the type of booming area that generates notice the way Austin is today and Atlanta was in the 80's and 90's (and still is, though to a lesser extent).

[TheGerbil]

This wasn't supposed to be about why certain cities get "buzz." My whole point is that despit being a really nice place to live, Pittsburgh somehow isn't getting the attention from young people (or anyone) that some other places get. I think my whole complaint is that Pittsburgh is a great place and many of the people who love Austin and Charlotte would like it here too, if they gave it a chance.

Also, this thread is supposed to be more about feelings. The fact that Cleveland and Cincy get the same level of attention as us doesn't change the fact that I am tired of hearing about places like Atlanta.

[PghUSA]

I guess the question for the local leadership is what more can be done to change those perceptions. They have worked better with the Universities and the Oakland neighborhoods (though there is much work left to do), attracted major Hollywood productions, enabled a burgeoning tech scene, gotten a world class airport as a gateway into the region.

I go back to the MadAve, WallStreet and Hollywood Blvd. view that we need something like an ER or L&O or even CSI type drama to showcase every unique aspect of the city, a type of 21st century greeting card in everyones homes night after night to break any stereotypes. For the Wall Streeters and Congressional funders consolidation is the best way to show up on their muni-bond rooms, retailer demo stats, and local zoning and code radars.

Once those two things take place I think there is no stopping Pittsburgh, if you ask why Austin (TRW, Willie Nelson, Austin City Limits, etc.), Vegas, Miami, LA and NYC are so desireable it is because they show up on the fact books of the "top 50" (they can annex and consolidate) and they have a massive PR machine that emmerses their city in print, sitcom, drama, ads, sports etc. etc.

Though Pittsburgh won't have the bevy of media products that a NY or LA or Miami do, we can forward the next L&O, ER or CSI trend, all with Pittsburgh this time as the backdrop instead of NYC, Chicago or Vegas.

[leets]

Here is a more accurate listing by metropolitan areas. Note our ranking compared to the much touted Vegas(32), Charlotte(37), Orlando(28) or even Cleveland(23). (In this list Akron is listed as a separate entity and is #69 @702,078) This shows how much we have been underated due to the cities small foot print. This must change.

You think that is bad, Buffalo gets cheated because some of its influence area is randomly dumped into Rochester because of county lines and none of the 400,000 people on the Canadian side are even counted

[PghUSA]

^^true not only that but MLB and the NBA hesitate to consider Buffalo because Toronto is so close, yet for census #s nothing directly west or northwest of the metro is counted.

Hey you guys had your chance in 1812, Admiral Perry did his part

[TheGerbil]

Now I am curious how big Buffalo really is. Sounds like they are worse off than we are in terms of looking smaller than they really are.

[urbanophile]

Now I am curious how big Buffalo really is. Sounds like they are worse off than we are in terms of looking smaller than they really are.

I imagine the same goes for alot of the border cities like Detroit-Windsor, El Paso-Chiudad Juarez, San Diego-Tijuana, Laredo-Nuevo Laredo, etc. However, in the case of many of these places, the city on the non-U.S. side grew up precisely because it was right across the border from the U.S. so, in many ways, the border stimulated growth that would not have occurred otherwise.

[PghUSA]

I know that in the case of Buffalo and Detroit many expatriates (sp?) commute across from Ontario for a tax benefit I forget and the healthcare and lower drug costs they are afforded.

Gerbil, Buffalo I remember from the PG "Metro Visions" ongoing series was very close to consolidating a few years back, they may be the first city between Indy and Philly/NY to actually get it done.