How the rust belt can sell itself to the folks in the sunbelt

[tsuga]

Okay...as a native of the Sunbelt, I have to say...the rustbelt rocks! I have lived in the Detroit area for a while now and have found it very enjoyable....the only problem...I

[dtown]

amen

[hudkina]

The problem is that the southern states are far more economically friendly to businesses. People don't move to Atlanta because they think the city is nice. They move to Atlanta because their job transfers them their, or they can't find work here, or whatever. The biggest thing Michigan and other northern states can do is provide the right balance of government services and business-friendly taxes.

P.S., I'm glad you like the area.

[tomo]

Many northerners are moving to the South *despite* those negatives you mentioned, plus more. They move where the money is, place takes second place to them. There is another group of people, though, for whom place matters. And there's a theoretical small group of people who, if you can attract them, you'll be attracting a group of people who will create many orders of magnitude more jobs than themselves, meaning you attract a few dozen of them and they'll create the new companies that'll attract thousands more.

Anyways, there are things we could do as a region to attract all types of people. Transit, as mentioned, is one. Being able to get from one Metro Detroit urban center to another without a car would be a great boost to certain people's lifestyles. Adding a bunch of coffee shops, used bookstores, and stuff like that to downtown Detroit would help too, although doing that directly probably wouldn't work. There's a lot of good old architecture on Detroit's main commercial avenues but much has been torn down for parking lots and now is our chance to preserve what's left and turn those lots into buildings where people can live, work, and spend money.

[hudkina]

Not that it matters but there is actually a HUGE used book store in Downtown Detroit.

[USA11B]

That's a great post! I can't tell you how much I agree with you. Unfortunately, I am one of those who left MI for the Sun-Belt for the chance at a much better job and much more money. 5yrs later I'm still in Atlanta, and doing everything I can to get back to MI. Hopefully it should be happening in the near future, and I can't wait! It is true, I have met few down here that actually like it here, the people that stay here and settle are usually more concerned about ease of getting 'things'. Ease of getting a job, ease of getting a huge house, etc. Most of them though will admit they would go back 'home' in a heartbeat if they could have it as easy there.

I think what makes the rust-belt so great is the same thing that makes New England what it is, they are the polar opposites of the sun-belt, and many of the places out West growing. They are unique, original, have beautiful architecture, local owned businesses, few corporate chains, less corporate mentality, etc. Sadly the South has become an entire culture based on corporate America. Any and every thing here is some type of chain...You would find as much originality and difference in the architecture and construction here as you would find at Wally-World or Applebees.

I really hope Michigan at some point gets that and takes advantage of it. No we don't need to tear down Tiger Stadium, old factories, etc. etc. and build 'condos', 'live/work/play developments', <insert any development buzzword>...Now I agree these help in some instances and are good, but to take it a level like they do down here I think would be a big mistake, example Detroit, Flint, Saginaw...Keep their heritage, celebrate the old factories, the old architecture, etc. don't tear all this down, put in a Wal-Mart and hi-rise condos and think you're making progress. It that's the best you can do, then why the hell wouldn't everybody just move South, you got more jobs and nicer weather! MI needs to build on what has made it such an interesting, unique state! No we don't need to sell our soul to corporate America and create a business climate where a new Wal-Mart is opening every week in the state and any and all individuality in all sectors of life disappears, as it has here in the South!

Things happen in cycles...I believe it's only a matter of time before the South isn't the cheap corporate haven it is now, and when they no longer are able to offer tons of jobs, tons of easy money...People will be leaving/avoiding here in droves!

MI needs to preserve and build on what they are, while doing what they can to diversify and improve the economy, but they don't need to do this at the cost of selling out in the way the sun-belt has.

[Michi]

The problem is that the rest of the country IS from Michigan. Why try to sell them on something they left when they already know how good it is?

Seriously, from Atlanta, to Denver, to Phoenix, Chicago and LA, you will ALWAYS find a Michigander who use to live here. For New Years 2004, I found myself in a liquer store in downtown Atlanta. To purchase my goods, I needed to show my ID to the cashier. One glance at it, and all he said was, "Oh, Detroit. That's where I'm from."

[hood]

I think that the rustbelt will experience another boom in the near future, we have everything besides weather on our side. One thing I have always promised myself is that I would never, ever move because of a job, it seems anyone that moves strictly because of a job, expecially to a place you don't particularly like is hurting themselves. I would have a hard time being happy down south or out west, I plan on staying right here in Lansing, I think the only place I would even consider moving is Chicago, maybe Detroit if it can really begin to improve it's core.

[BarGal]

For anyone interested in visiting Michigan:

Michigan has great web sites that promote the state. Here's a link to one of them:

Michigan.org

It has a map page with links to lots of Michigan cities, which then provide links to that city's visitor bureau or the city's web page. You could spend hours just poking around in here reading about their history and sites to see.

Click here for a map to select a Michigan City to visit

[GRDadof3]

The problem is that the rest of the country IS from Michigan. Why try to sell them on something they left when they already know how good it is?

Seriously, from Atlanta, to Denver, to Phoenix, Chicago and LA, you will ALWAYS find a Michigander who use to live here. For New Years 2004, I found myself in a liquer store in downtown Atlanta. To purchase my goods, I needed to show my ID to the cashier. One glance at it, and all he said was, "Oh, Detroit. That's where I'm from."

You're right Michi. We've probably populated half the country. The State should just run a marketing campaign about "coming home" or "Feels like home".

[BarGal]

...The State should just run a marketing campaign about "coming home" or "Feels like home".

THAT'S actually a GREAT idea!

[MJLO]

Michigan would have like 20 million people living in it at that point. Damn

[verlander]

You can't, because you can't even sell this place to the people who live here. How are you going to convince someone to move from Atlanta when their colleagues working in Auburn Hills or Troy tell them what a dump Detroit is? When their children are leaving for other major cities to find jobs and a better life? When the cost of living in most Sunbelt cities is well below the cost of living here, with better weather and an expanding economy? All we can say is that we have cool buildings or a proud history through the end of World War II. That ain't gonna cut it. WWII ended 60 years ago. Detroit and SE Michigan have been declining ever since.

[tsuga]

You can't, because you can't even sell this place to the people who live here. How are you going to convince someone to move from Atlanta when their colleagues working in Auburn Hills or Troy tell them what a dump Detroit is? When their children are leaving for other major cities to find jobs and a better life? When the cost of living in most Sunbelt cities is well below the cost of living here, with better weather and an expanding economy? All we can say is that we have cool buildings or a proud history through the end of World War II. That ain't gonna cut it. WWII ended 60 years ago. Detroit and SE Michigan have been declining ever since.

Well with that attitude...sure...

I'm not saying it would be easy...but in my opinion the quality of life is substantially higher in Michigan than the southeast. Atlanta does have a roaring economy...but that is all its got going for it.

Functional cities and a proud history are a great foundation to start from, and that is far from "All we can say". We still have great universities, beautiful lakes, rivers and forests, a whole other country right next door etc etc. The biggest hurtle is getting someone in power in Detroit that gives a f*** about their city. And that is not impossible.

the weather is totally arbitrary...as for me, I enjoy not sweating 8 months out of the year!

...to make an assumption that SE Michigan will decline forever is naive...or to assume the sunbelt will always be an economic powerhouse.

10 million people still live here...I

[Jasoncw]

In Michigan, during Christmas time, it snows. I found out that a lot of those southren states don't get proper snow for Christmas

[Michi]

Functional cities and a proud history are a great foundation to start from, and that is far from "All we can say". We still have great universities, beautiful lakes, rivers and forests, a whole other country right next door etc etc. The biggest hurtle is getting someone in power in Detroit that gives a f*** about their city. And that is not impossible.

That goes for the suburbs too, tsuga. Like the statement made earlier about the people in Atlanta (suburbs) encouraging their Michigan constituents from craphole Detroit (suburbs) to come work down there, it works both ways. In fact, I've seen more foul attitudes surrounding Detroit than in the city itself. That's no surprise giving it's the surrounding area of Detroit that drives Michigan's economy. Yet it's ironic how Detroit gets the blame for everything statewide.

Keep an eye on Global Motors and how Nashville might benefit lightyears more than the entire state of Michigan.

[Temeteron]

There was a woman that came in my job the other day, and I asked her where she was from because i noticed her accent.....and she said from Michigan.....and i asked her was she from Detroit.....and she immediately denied it, she said she was from a suburb of Detroit, but not actually from the city of Detroit....it seems to me that alot of people dont like claiming Detroit as their hometown.....I've heard it from several others as well....

[Michi]

lol...Michigan accent. You southerners crack me up.

If I was you, Temeteron, and I was from Michigan, I would have said, "Oh, I'm from Detroit, what part of the state are you from?"...and she would have been elated that I was from Detroit. If I (you) had lived in a suburb, I would have then said what suburb of Detroit and she still would have been just as excited.

It's all in context. You aren't from Michigan, so she knows you don't know any better, and so she insisted that you don't associate her with Detroit. That would be like associating her with leprosy. However, if you WERE from Detroit, she would have talked your ear off for an hour about "our" home state because that's what we do.

I guarantee the other Michiganders who reply to this will agree.

[MJLO]

I agree and disagree with that Michi. In the last five months being out here in Phoenix. When I tell people that I was born in Detroit, only a select few associate it negatively. Most people don't know two licks about Detroit. Or their own back yard for that matter. We are on a website surrounded by city nerds. What urks me, is that for as economically vital Detroit, and it's industries are to the nations economy, It gets very little respect. The poor residents, and Detroit enthusiasts generally go down without a fight, they just quietly try and hope for better things, and are just used to Detroit getting berated.(except Hudkina, say something inaccurate or demeaning, and he turns into a pitbull! Rock on brother. ).

For some reason it makes me almost sound cooler to associate myself with Detroit. It's when I say I spent alot of time growing up, and went to college in Grand Rapids that they say, "where is that". I agree alot with the sentiment, that Michigan has populated half the country. Although the same could be said about PA and OH too. It makes me think about all these years of stagnant economic growth, and Michigan is still gaining people. Can you imagine what it would be like if half the people who left stayed?

[illmatic774]

Whenever I encounter me a Michigan native (NOT Michigander), they are from Metro Detroit, and here in Vegas I meet a LOT (except each from Lansing). I've gotten plenty of Livonians, Eastpointes, Dearborns, Southfields, and even some Novis Sterling Heights, and the occasional "suburb of..um.. Detroit (remember, they must not associate with us) but not many Detroits (except me and one other random people). By using that approach they can connive the regular folk into thinking that they are from some exclusive lilly-white community (which is true to an extent), and not associated with the city, driven out of their homestate because of the Detroit-related job losses.

They can make people think "Oh, Sterling Heights... sounds like a very nice place", but I respond with "Oh, you mean Detroit, right?" After that they will come up with something like "oh.. umm, yeah, Detroit".

You never seem to have this problem with people from Boston. They'll always say "Oh we're from Boston."

Oh and LOL @ the Michigan accent

[MJLO]

If someone were to visit sterling heights, they'd be like. Damn, how flippin boring! I'll try not to go off topic on a Sterling Heights rant. But the city, especially for being the 4th largest in the state. Has absolutely no Identity at all, how do you tell it apart from Warren? That rings true for many of the Detroit burbs. There are a few with character, but overwhelmingly if not for Detroit they would not exist.

[hudkina]

I wouldn't call it the 4th largest, but instead the 4th most populated. It's like comparing Phoenix to Philadelphia. Phoenix may have the larger population, but Philadelphia is the "larger" city.

[Temeteron]

Whenever I encounter me a Michigan native (NOT Michigander), they are from Metro Detroit, and here in Vegas I meet a LOT (except each from Lansing). I've gotten plenty of Livonians, Eastpointes, Dearborns, Southfields, and even some Novis Sterling Heights, and the occasional "suburb of..um.. Detroit (remember, they must not associate with us) but not many Detroits (except me and one other random people). By using that approach they can connive the regular folk into thinking that they are from some exclusive lilly-white community (which is true to an extent), and not associated with the city, driven out of their homestate because of the Detroit-related job losses.

They can make people think "Oh, Sterling Heights... sounds like a very nice place", but I respond with "Oh, you mean Detroit, right?" After that they will come up with something like "oh.. umm, yeah, Detroit".

You never seem to have this problem with people from Boston. They'll always say "Oh we're from Boston."

Oh and LOL @ the Michigan accent

What? You think you guys dont have an accent? Every state has one.....Contrary to disbelief not everyone has their native accent though....My parents are both from Greece, and I've lived in Boston for a little while, so I dont really sound like alot of the native southerners, but anyways, I am good with accents and 9 times out of 10 can pinpoint where someone is from....deny it all you want....the only states from the mid-west that dont really have a distinct accent are Ohio and Indiana.....Illinois especially in Chicago has one, Minnesota has that Scandinavian sound and so does Wisconsin with the "ooooo's " In the Northeast Boston's accent of course is mostly without the R's....and New York of course has several accents depending on what burrough you are in, I can also pinpoint those out....Brooklyn is more of the "tawwwk waawwk " whereas Long Island is more nasal sounding.......Then there's Philly which is more similar to Maryland and South Jersey accents........The South also has different accents but of course that would be hard for northerners to notice.......The New South which consists of Atlanta, Charlotte, Houston, Dallas, Tampa, & Miami(sometimes) have multiple and mixed accents because of the many influx of northern transplants and immigrants......but if you are in Memphis, Birmingham, Tallahassee, or Little Rock you will definately hear the twang and drawls.....as far as West Coast goes......i have no idea....im sure they have their own ways of speaking out there too....

[hudkina]

I'd bet you don't think Ohio and Indiana have accents because they tend to have a stronger southern accent (particularly in rural areas).

I don't think Michigan has a distinct accent, but Michiganders do have unique nuances with different words. For instance, people call Ford "Ford's" or Kmart "Kmart's". Another example is many people say "pellow" instead of pillow or "melk" instead of milk. "T" usually gets dropped from the middle of a lot of words; for instance "twunny" instead of twenty or "cannalope" instead of cantaloupe. A lot of people call it "ASHphalt" instead of asphalt. People from Detroit call the city "D'Troit", with the emphasis on the "TROIT", while elsewhere in the country people call it "DEEtroit", with the emphasis on the "DEE". Many people pronounce "garage" as a one-syllable word: "graage". A lot of people don't fully pronounce the "t" at the end of words. I don't know how to give you an example, but when saying Detroit the first "t" has a much stronger sound then the second "t". The second "t" almost comes across as an exhalation. And lastly, people often use time as a reference for distance. For instance, if someone from Port Huron was asked "How far are you away from Detroit?" the answere more likely than not will be "an hour" as opposed to "60 miles". Or the grocery stores is about "twunny" minutes away, as opposed to "10 miles".

(Not to mention we refer to soft drinks as "pop".)

[Zissou]

Damn, judging by the list im as Michigan as they come. Are you positive those are just Michigan traits?