Interstate 95

[Recchia]

I don't think there is one uncongested highway in all of the New York metropolitan area. Why anyone would put up with the endless driving delays is beyond me, especially when you have all the transportation options that one has living there.

And OMG, an hour and twenty minute commute?? I'd kill myself if my commute was ever over 30 mins in a car...

[Garris]

Why anyone would put up with the endless driving delays is beyond me, especially when you have all the transportation options that one has living there.

My father did it for 30 years, for similar reasons to our new neighbor (abundant land, good schools, parks, fishing, etc for a fraction of the cost of Westchester or Long Island).

The problem where we lived (like many in the burbs) was that the train station was 20 minutes from our house before you waited for the train for 15 to 20 minutes and then took the hour and 15 minute train ride. The highways are much quicker to access, even with traffic.

And OMG, an hour and twenty minute commute?? I'd kill myself if my commute was ever over 30 mins in a car...

And this is in Putnam County NY, which is now (with houses at a bargain average $550-600K vs 800K-1mil in Westchester) considered to be in the middle of the commuting metro (vs being at the fringe when I was growing up).

Dutchess County, NY, North of Putnam and with commutes of easily 2 hrs plus in each direction is now, with its highway access, cheaper land, lower taxes, and brand new Metro North stations, firmly considered to be within the NYC metro bedroom community orbit.

Amazing stuff. That's when people huff and say, "Well, I can't ever see RI or Providence ever being a commuting option for people working in Boston since it's 50 minutes to an hour away" I just laugh and say, "Have you ever been to NY?" If the Boston economy kept expanding (which it isn't) and home costs kept climbing there (which they aren't), I could easily see a NYC-eque metro situation developing here (which I'm sure Fall River and Worcester and other surrounding communities would kill to have happen).

- Garris

[Cotuit]

I don't think there is one uncongested highway in all of the New York metropolitan area. Why anyone would put up with the endless driving delays is beyond me, especially when you have all the transportation options that one has living there.

We would rent a car sometimes to drive up to New England, we lived in Flushing and generally crossed the Whitestone Bridge (i.e. we didnt have to go into/through Manhattan), but it would often take us longer to get from our house in Queens to the CT border and the Merritt Parkway than it would take us to get from the CT border to Cape Cod or Boston.

[matt]

PS: With way more population growing up in the burbs than the cities now, I'm hoping the pendulum will swing back the other way, with the city being far more intriguing to folks as adults than the burbs they are so used to growing up in...

Funny... thats me!

[runawayjim]

Funny... thats me!

same here... unfortunately, my fiancee wants to buy a house in the burbs... so i'm either going for fairly rural or a more urban-esque burb like east prov.

[Garris]

Funny... thats me!

Me too . My parents watched with various degrees of horror as I went off to New Haven, CT; then Manhattan; then Rochester, MN; and then Providence. If I had a dollar for every time my mother launched herself towards the doorlocks when driving around in each of the above . It was one of many things where they would ask themselves "He's ours?"

However, Providence is the first major city, to its and my parent's credit, that they've "gotten." They've totally gone 180 on the city, and really now love it. The fact my parents are specifically coming off the downtown exit on 95 to visit so they can track G-Tech's and the Westin's progress is nothing short of astounding. They used to demand that we drive to, like, Cracker Barrel for dinner when visiting before. Now they'll walk to Red Stripe with us and don't bat an eyelash when my sister says she's come back from downtown on RIPTA at 7PM. Nothing short of amazing progress .

same here... unfortunately, my fiancee wants to buy a house in the burbs... so i'm either going for fairly rural or a more urban-esque burb like east prov.

There are places to buy a "suburban-esque" condo or house within walking distance of retail districts right here in the city that also have full RIPTA service:

- Fox Point

- Summit/Hope Village (best bang for the buck neighborhood in all of Providence, in my mind)

- Oak Hill

- Wayland Square

- Areas of East Providence near the 6 corners

And nearby towns have retail "Main Streets" as well:

- East Greenwich

- Arctic Village (not much going on now, but with all the development there, this could change)

- Barrington (I know people disagree with me here)

- Warren

- Bristol

- Wickford

- Westerly

Obviously affordability varies.

I know people who live within one or two blocks of Main Streets in Westerly, Barrington, and East Greenwich respectively, and they lead fairly urban lifestyles (walk to restaurants, markets, waterfronts, bookstores, basic services, libraries, religious activities, etc).

- Garris

[Gusterfell]

I know people who live within one or two blocks of Main Streets in Westerly, Barrington, and East Greenwich respectively, and they lead fairly urban lifestyles (walk to restaurants, markets, waterfronts, bookstores, basic services, libraries, religious activities, etc).

Heck, that was me in Jamestown, of all places. The village is small, but very walkable and meets most needs. RIPTA and seasonal ferries make it easy to get elsewhere for what few needs can't be met locally, and I didn't even own a car for much of the time I lived there. One of the great things about RI is that there are still so many different places where it is possible to live such a lifestyle.

[Frankie811]

same here... unfortunately, my fiancee wants to buy a house in the burbs... so i'm either going for fairly rural or a more urban-esque burb like east prov.

I grew up in Fox Point and the East side but I've lived in East Providence for some time now and love it out here. It's pretty quiet for a city of 40,000 residents who for some reason are mostly elderly. Not much retail any only a few good restuarants, but the neighborhoods, schools, pubilc safety and quality of life are decent. The Grassy Plain area of Riverside and most areas of Rumford are very nice. They roll up the sidewalks here at 5pm. Around 1998 the medium price of a 3 bd room house in EP was around $ 137,000, which I thought was high back then. Good luck finding a place for under $ 300,000. The East Bay bike path is excellent! Attention is now being turned towards the waterfront with plans for new housing and roads.

[glassandsteel]

same here... unfortunately, my fiancee wants to buy a house in the burbs... so i'm either going for fairly rural or a more urban-esque burb like east prov.

I thought that was one of those conversations that determines whether you wanna be with that person. Remember, she's just a fiancee. Choose now, her or the city!

[runawayjim]

I thought that was one of those conversations that determines whether you wanna be with that person. Remember, she's just a fiancee. Choose now, her or the city!

haha... she agreed that we don't have to move too far away from the city and that we can live in a walkable environment. she also agreed that when she moves back, we can rent our next apartment in the city (i'm not ready to leave).

basically, she just wants a nice yard (the yard we have now can hardly be called a yard) when we settle down and buy a home.

and after the money i spent on the ring... i think i'd rather choose her over the city.

[Lone Ranger]

and after the money i spent on the ring... i think i'd rather choose her over the city.

Ahhh, true love. Isn't it beautiful?

[Garris]

and after the money i spent on the ring... i think i'd rather choose her over the city.

Ahhh, true love. Isn't it beautiful?

I laughed out loud at this exchange .

Regarding yards, could someone tell me the appeal? I understand it for children. I grew up with big front and back yards, and they were great to play in.

But for adults? What do people do with them? My parents now are actually clearing some land in the back to extend their sizable lawn to "make it prettier." But they don't actually do anything with it other than watch other people (that they pay) mow it.

Lawns are also so environmentally wasteful on so many levels.

What is the appeal for others?

- Garris

[runawayjim]

I laughed out loud at this exchange .

Regarding yards, could someone tell me the appeal? I understand it for children. I grew up with big front and back yards, and they were great to play in.

But for adults? What do people do with them? My parents now are actually clearing some land in the back to extend their sizable lawn to "make it prettier." But they don't actually do anything with it other than watch other people (that they pay) mow it.

Lawns are also so environmentally wasteful on so many levels.

What is the appeal for others?

- Garris

it's for the kids for the fiancee... i'll have to take her by some of the houses i saw on one of my walks around teh neighborhood. they had decent yards (much bigger than the one i've got now).

i think within 2-3 years of getting married, we're planning on having kids, so there's no point in buying a house where we wouldn't want to raise kids right away... although i suppose a condo would be fine because the kids wouldn't really use a yard for another 3 years... hmmmm. maybe i can talk her into the city at first and then move to the burbs when our kids are a bit older...

[somad]

I like being able to go out to the back yard and get food. Blueberries, raspberries, tomatoes, winter and summer squash, peppers, potatoes, beans, corn. It's not hard to do and it's much healthier and tastier than what you find in the supermarket. I get too much and wind up bringing the extras into work...

[Lone Ranger]

It's the American Dream, Garris. Why? That takes a long answer. I think about it on occasion. I've decided you could probably write several books about it.

Regardless, Americans think the good life requires a yard. "Good fences make good neighbors," as a famous American (made famous by the rurality he feigned) once wrote.

The antisocial social model, I call it.

Which is incredibly abstract, and I wouldn't talk about it too loudly in public, but this is (IMO) ultimately the root notion we would be combating in an urban advocacy group: reinventing the American Dream. Changing people's ideals of the good life in our little corner of the country.

[Garris]

It's the American Dream, Garris... Americans think the good life requires a yard.

I guess. It makes people feel like the "landed gentry"...

I wouldn't talk about it too loudly in public, but this is (IMO) ultimately the root notion we would be combating in an urban advocacy group: reinventing the American Dream. Changing people's ideals of the good life in our little corner of the country.

Yes, I don't think we want people to construe that we want to take away their lawns...

- Garris

[Cotuit]

I see a difference between a 'yard' and a 'garden.' A yard is an acre of grass in the suburbs, a yard by definition (in my mind at least) is large. Urban homes should have gardens, be they veggie gardens or flower gardens or formal gardens (not 'yard'). I see city people wanting a small garden where they can expand their living space and enjoy the outdoors. Yards are indeed a status symbol.

I'd like to have a garden or at least a terrace, but have no desire for a yard.

[Recchia]

Ugh one thing I'll never have is any yard/lot over 5000 sq. feet. I watch my dad endlessly toil in their half acre lot week by week and always wonder what is the friggen point. They don't grow anything but grass and I don't even wanna know how much water they waste per year watering their yard with their John Deere self-propelling sprinkler...

And as far as kids needing a yard, I don't buy that. That is why we have parks, basketball courts, etc. I hated playing in my backyard when I was a kid but always loved going to a playground or park.

[runawayjim]

kids don't need a yard, but my fiancee would like them to have one. the suburban lifestyle does not have to mean anti-social behavior. i grew up in serious suburbia (think a town like barrington), and we were always going to the park or friends' houses and stuff. i lived in a neighborhood full of old people, so there wasn't much for kids for me to grow up with in our neighborhood (which is the one thing i really kind of missed), but we had plenty of friends in town that we would visit. we also lived only about 3/4-a mile away from the center of town, which had shops and restaurants and had a big festival every year with lots of food music, and all that.

while i don't necessarily need to return to that to raise kids, i also don't overly like the idea of raising kids in the city. however, i will not be like my mom and be afraid of the city. we'll come in all the time. my mother grew up in inner city new haven and became afraid of going into new haven after she moved out. that's something i'll never understand.

[yossarian]

But for adults? What do people do with them? My parents now are actually clearing some land in the back to extend their sizable lawn to "make it prettier." But they don't actually do anything with it other than watch other people (that they pay) mow it.

Lawns are also so environmentally wasteful on so many levels.

What is the appeal for others?

As to my small patch of grass in Elmhurst:

Hammock under a big old tree, beer, good book, red sox on the radio, sunday in august with a nice breeze...

[jencoleslaw]

Regarding yards, could someone tell me the appeal? I understand it for children. I grew up with big front and back yards, and they were great to play in.

But for adults? What do people do with them? My parents now are actually clearing some land in the back to extend their sizable lawn to "make it prettier." But they don't actually do anything with it other than watch other people (that they pay) mow it.

Lawns are also so environmentally wasteful on so many levels.

What is the appeal for others?

- Garris

not every yard is a lawn, for starters. my back yard on Ring Street was almost entirely garden (herbs and veggies) and two small fruit trees, with a large shade tree in the corner with a hammock under it. I probably had less than 10 sq ft of grass to cut.

lawns may be environmentally wasteful but they are one way to lift the water table in the city, and keep stormwater out of the bay. If we had more lawn in the city we probably would not be digging a giant worm tunnel under the city for the CSO.

For me a little patch of back yard for a garden and a shade tree is an oasis and some peace in a city that is far too often filthy, hot and loud. I currently live in an apartment, third floor, with no real garden of my own, and share the backyard with two dogs, and several other tenents and as a result it isn't very peaceful and makes me miss my own little house that much more.

[Bill Mocarsky]

I see a difference between a 'yard' and a 'garden.' A yard is an acre of grass in the suburbs, a yard by definition (in my mind at least) is large. Urban homes should have gardens, be they veggie gardens or flower gardens or formal gardens (not 'yard'). I see city people wanting a small garden where they can expand their living space and enjoy the outdoors. Yards are indeed a status symbol.

I'd like to have a garden or at least a terrace, but have no desire for a yard.

I think yards are some of the most dysfunctional use of space. I hear that some want yards for the kids. But, I rarely see them used. It seems when the kids come out the door they're getting right into the car. The parents probably don't want them ruining the grass.

I believe if you live in a walkable area, the streets and parks around you are yours to enjoy.

[runawayjim]

I think yards are some of the most dysfunctional use of space. I hear that some want yards for the kids. But, I rarely see them used. It seems when the kids come out the door they're getting right into the car. The parents probably don't want them ruining the grass.

I believe if you live in a walkable area, the streets and parks around you are yours to enjoy.

i used to be in my yard when i was a kid all the time, and i plan on doing the same with my own kids someday. the reason for this is i don't think kids should be dragged around all over the place to play indoors. i think kids should be outside whenever possible. it's better for their health and well-being and gives them an appreciation for the outdoors rather than air conditioning and video games.

[Bill Mocarsky]

i used to be in my yard when i was a kid all the time, and i plan on doing the same with my own kids someday. the reason for this is i don't think kids should be dragged around all over the place to play indoors. i think kids should be outside whenever possible. it's better for their health and well-being and gives them an appreciation for the outdoors rather than air conditioning and video games.

Exactly. Kids in auto dependent areas are not getting the benefit of their neighborhood. Unless you're talking about toddlers, the yard is not going to be enough. Soon after reaching school age, their frontier expands beyond the property line.

[runawayjim]

Exactly. Kids in auto dependent areas are not getting the benefit of their neighborhood. Unless you're talking about toddlers, the yard is not going to be enough. Soon after reaching school age, their frontier expands beyond the property line.

to a degree. what do you mean by school age? 5-7 years old? if the neighborhood has other kids... children from age 5-13 don't have too many problems spending all their time in the neighborhood playing with the other kids in the neighborhood. however, if that's not the case, the parents should be taking their kids to parks and other people's homes to be with friends (which was largely the case for me). i also, when i was between the age of 11 and 13 would ride my bike across town to my friends' houses to either go swimming in their pools or go biking or hiking or whatever. living in suburbia was no hinderance on my social skills (that was mainly a factor of my personality being somewhat shy).