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The Lafayette (Site 4)


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^agreed 100%. I think the agreements, written as they were in times when projects went from ideas to concrete very fast, are to blame. .....instead of RFP's for such important projects, tie the public-private strings together more tightly like with the Marriott...the City states what they want, say 200 rooms like with this project, put the thing to bid with a design-build contract with a performance bond being posted. This way you don't get folks stepping up who have trouble financing projects, but folks with deep pockets often dedicated to certain types of development....Trammell Crow Residential for instance likely is building Hue out of their pockets with little to no outside financing. The City continues to own the the land until project completion, allowing the bidders to not have to float this cost. The City can even keep the land and lease it, or have an agreement to sell it after 1-year or something.

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This may be a separate thread, but...

Is it time for a "No confidence" vote for Russell Allen as City Manager?

I mean, is he doing anything right?

He was the main screw up in the sanitation workers labor dispute.

Now he seems to be on the wrong side of the Council on this deal.

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This may be a separate thread, but...

Is it time for a "No confidence" vote for Russell Allen as City Manager?

I mean, is he doing anything right?

He was the main screw up in the sanitation workers labor dispute.

Now he seems to be on the wrong side of the Council on this deal.

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Take away the parking around the Clarion, and the tower itself is fairly skinny.

The city needs to determine if they want to build the existing parking deck any higher or make money by selling its air rights.

The two tower approach lets them build as necessary *and* get hotel rooms soonish -- construction starting April 09 plus 18 months of construction leave a late October 2010 opening. The CC will have been open two years by then.

A slice of the NCAE land closest to South Street would be an ideal spot for the Winston two hotel concept... A hotel cluster of Sheraton, Marriott, Lafayette, and a couple there would be a good anchor for the south end of the downtown district. I am surprised more affordable hotels have not started popping up on the South Saunders corridor to join the Red Roof Inn and the other hotel under construction in front of Sams Club. There are a few more in Garner near the 70/401 split, but they don't feel as "connected" to downtown.

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there are no air rights to be bought with this deck. it is a pre-cast deck that isn't designed to hold a structure above it. That was never a requirement in that specific lot. A lot of the other city owned decks are built for future buildings to be built on top of them.

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I am surprised more affordable hotels have not started popping up on the South Saunders corridor to join the Red Roof Inn and the other hotel under construction in front of Sams Club. There are a few more in Garner near the 70/401 split, but they don't feel as "connected" to downtown.
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At some point early on, Empire was negotiating to secure air rights above the deck. I think they wanted to preserve the western views, not from a structure built above the current deck, but by tearing it down and building something taller in its place 20-30 years down the road.

Sorry for going (somewhat) off topic, but the land on South Saunders near Ray Price Harley-Davidson would probalby be a lot cheaper than any other land inside South/Glenwood/North/Person. I could even see something like that developing in the Lenior/South corridor west of Dawson, though it would be near the Heritage Park and Gateway Park housing projects. I think Boylan Heights would be on board if their view was preserved and they brought more service retail to the Saunders/South area.

Heck, even the Capitol Blvd approach between Wake Forest/Atlantic and Wade -- including Empire's Raleigh Bonded Warehouses -- could support affordadble hotels. The cluster just north of the 440/Capitol intersection will be a good, cheap alternative, especially if they add better bus shelters near Perkins and DD/Baskin Robbins.

There are a lot of hotel rooms just outside the core, but I don't know how much excess capacity they have to handle the upcoming, already booked convention traffic.

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At some point early on, Empire was negotiating to secure air rights above the deck. I think they wanted to preserve the western views, not from a structure built above the current deck, but by tearing it down and building something taller in its place 20-30 years down the road.

Sorry for going (somewhat) off topic, but the land on South Saunders near Ray Price Harley-Davidson would probalby be a lot cheaper than any other land inside South/Glenwood/North/Person. I could even see something like that developing in the Lenior/South corridor west of Dawson, though it would be near the Heritage Park and Gateway Park housing projects. I think Boylan Heights would be on board if their view was preserved and they brought more service retail to the Saunders/South area.

Heck, even the Capitol Blvd approach between Wake Forest/Atlantic and Wade -- including Empire's Raleigh Bonded Warehouses -- could support affordadble hotels. The cluster just north of the 440/Capitol intersection will be a good, cheap alternative, especially if they add better bus shelters near Perkins and DD/Baskin Robbins.

There are a lot of hotel rooms just outside the core, but I don't know how much excess capacity they have to handle the upcoming, already booked convention traffic.

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  • 9 months later...
Funny, the slant on this. What really happened is that they never got the funding together, and the city manager recommended the city terminate the agreement. To say that Empire "withdrew" is like saying that Pete Gillen "resigned" from UVA.
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Not to be a naysayer, but Raleigh has passed its boom time for DT construction. Credit will be tight for how-many-knows years and risk taking will be even lower in a town that takes no/very little risk as is. Expect most of the investment to shift back towards the burbs where investors know they make money.

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Maybe Empire was trying to save face, and I understand that, but it would be hard to fault a developer who has done so much good for DTR. They do need to prove they can execute a large-scale development like the L-bldg, and perhaps it's better for them to be focused on one rather than two of these projects.

I do think the market will come back downtown. Long term, when issues of sustainability are considered, downtown is still a great investment, and we will see things turn around as the banks re-capitalize and lending returns to relative normalcy. It won't be a lending environment circa 2007, but significant urban projects will continue to be built, especially in the fastest growing metropolitan area in America.

This raises a larger issue of how can we help make urban projects more successful, given the myriad advantages that greenfield development projects have over their downtown/infill counterparts. The city should think about doing whatever it can to create a more advantageous environment for good urban development (which I think Lafayette was), beginning by reducing the development review process for projects that meet a high level of identified criteria, such as... quality urban design, green design (LEED-ND, etc), transit accessible, open space, etc. For developers, time is money, and that would be a good start. I recall seeing some language in the draft comp plan to this effect, so let's hope it makes it in the new UDO, to be developed over the next 18 months or so (if the comp plan can be completed first!).

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Not to be a naysayer, but Raleigh has passed its boom time for DT construction. Credit will be tight for how-many-knows years and risk taking will be even lower in a town that takes no/very little risk as is. Expect most of the investment to shift back towards the burbs where investors know they make money.
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Boom is a relative and subjective term. If many smaller scale projects take the place of a few flashy high-rise projects is downtown going to be worse off? Projects such as Cityscape's rehabilitation of South Saunders street are important stuffing in the downtown quilt that a realistic marketplace should create and cause to be successful. I welcome some economic normalizing as a chance to reevaluate and catch our breath.
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While I agree with you, if one uses that argument then they cannot say that the Fetzer/Coble years were bad for downtown. A TON of small projects, most organic, happened during that period. Meymandi, Exploris, Glenwood South, Second Empire, Warehouse district wakeup, to name a few. While those weren't my favorite years, it isn't like nothing happened after the two 30-story buildings were finished. To be honest, this period right now is moving forward more slowly than those years.
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