Hillsborough Street - NCSU Area developments

[richthofen]

On the subject of Hillsborough Street, the N&O announced today that the old Darryl's building has been purchased, and the new owner plans to put a restaurant in the space.

N&O Story

This is really good news, as that is probably my favorite building on Hillsborough, and it's been vacant too long. I heard that the Darryl's used to occupy both floors of the building; does anyone know if the second floor was closed off because of structural instability, or just because the space wasn't needed? I think that building would work well with another tenant, perhaps a nightclub or something, on the second floor. It would bring more traffic down to that end of Hillsborough at night, as currently Players' Retreat is the only thing going down there. And, with the reroute of Oberlin and a traffic circle planned for down there, it could really bring that area alive...

*The article did get one thing wrong, though. That was actually *not* the last Darryl's in operation. The one on High Point road in Greensboro is still going strong; I ate there earlier this year. We asked the waiter if it was the last one, and he said there was also one surviving location in Orlando, Florida (of all places). So there are still two....*

Edited November 7, 2005 by richthofen

[NCMike1981]

Oh cool, I thought they all closed in one giant swoop a few years back....

Edited November 7, 2005 by NCMike1981

[orulz]

I heard that the Darryl's used to occupy both floors of the building; does anyone know if the second floor was closed off because of structural instability, or just because the space wasn't needed? I think that building would work well with another tenant, perhaps a nightclub or something, on the second floor.

I believe the second floor was used to house Darryl's ventalation and HVAC equipment. Assuming the HVAC equipment can be relocated, I agree - it's a neat building and the second floor could definitely be put to better use.

[dmccall]

Darryl's used to just be the section next to Weatherman's with the tiny door. The whole section on the corner with the 80's greenhouse window was added in the early 80's. The old section was definitely 2 stories of restaurant. The circus room in the back left was really neat, and under-used. The best thing in there was the booth in the old-timey elevator. Sometimes we waited extra long for that booth. The 80's expansion never used the upstairs portion.

The old place was fantastic in the 70's...until the local guys (Winston, Eure, and "Darryl") sold out to General Mills who fern-barred and steroided up the location list so as to ruin everything neat about the place.

[bdp]

i think Hillsborough Street is an important part of Raleigh's revitalization, and this meeting is a great way to contribute any thoughts you may have regarding the proposed roundabouts and such. i plan on attending, but it is pretty early on a saturday morning, so we'll see...

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/410582.html

as a side note, meetings regarding Hillsborough are usually thick with University Park residents who are determined to keep the street from becoming too lively. I don't want it packed full of rowdy bars or anything, but to me, these people need to move to the suburbs if they want a totally quiet place to live. just my opinion of course...

[Transplant]

i think Hillsborough Street is an important part of Raleigh's revitalization, and this meeting is a great way to contribute any thoughts you may have regarding the proposed roundabouts and such. i plan on attending, but it is pretty early on a saturday morning, so we'll see...

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/410582.html

as a side note, meetings regarding Hillsborough are usually thick with University Park residents who are determined to keep the street from becoming too lively. I don't want it packed full of rowdy bars or anything, but to me, these people need to move to the suburbs if they want a totally quiet place to live. just my opinion of course...

I never understood why people move to a place, in this case very close to a college, and complain once they get there. I agree that H-bourgh should have restrictions on the # of bars, too many will be a negative. That said, if a mix of stores (a la Franklin St) would be perfect for students, and those living in U-Park, and even in Cameron village area

IMO Hillsborough St should be, built up with a nice 3-4 story buildings from Meridith College all the way to DT. Hopefully increasing height along the way. Maybe stepping up to 4-8 stories after the Morgan St. Split.

Some Condos above stores would reduce traffic.

I'm not sure about this mass move to round abouts.... I think the city would be better off dropping a light rail down Hillsborough....

Edited February 23, 2006 by Transplant

[pack-man]

I'm not sure about this mass move to round abouts.... I think the city would be better off dropping a light rail down Hillsborough....

I agree, but it will never happen. Street rail would be awesome and people would ride it all day I think.

What is $3million dollars going to do. That is barely enough to do a signal upgrade. I don't get it, but I guess you have to start somewhere.

A list of city improvements(pack-man style):

1. bury power lines

2. replace all sidewalks

3. add nice lighting

4. add trees

5. turn Western BLVD. into a freeway

6. storefront facade grants

7. assist with ABC permits for restaurants, bars

8. shut the University Park residents up (they should move or get it through their heads that their home value will skyrocket with these improvements)

9. add parking to both sides.

10. cobblestone some portions

11. ban tacky store awnings (bell tower mart, wolfmart)

just a couple of things off the top of my head.

Edited February 23, 2006 by pack-man

[paletexan]

i think Hillsborough Street is an important part of Raleigh's revitalization, and this meeting is a great way to contribute any thoughts you may have regarding the proposed roundabouts and such. i plan on attending, but it is pretty early on a saturday morning, so we'll see...

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/410582.html

as a side note, meetings regarding Hillsborough are usually thick with University Park residents who are determined to keep the street from becoming too lively. I don't want it packed full of rowdy bars or anything, but to me, these people need to move to the suburbs if they want a totally quiet place to live. just my opinion of course...

I share your opinion about anyone trying to keep H-street down, and it's importance to Raleigh's revitalization. It's a unique commercial district in a great location and it's just unacceptable in its current state.

[ChiefJoJo]

The Hillsborough Street Partnership will hold a community forum from 8:15 a.m. to noon Saturday, at West Raleigh Presbyterian Church, 27 Horne St.

Might have to check that out if I can wake up in time on a Sat morn.

5. turn Western BLVD. into a freeway

This won't happen. The city just spent about $3M on upgrading the road with turn lanes, curbing, sidewalks, etc., and besides, it runs right thru the NCSU area which isn't the proper context for a freeway. A superstreet might do the trick though.

[avery]

There is a huge amount of potential with Hillsborough Street. It is a major gateway into downtown that goes by Meredith College, NC State and right up to the footsteps of the capitol building. That being said, this area needs a major facelift and can become an attractive corridor. Burying the powerlines, fixing up the the storefronts, redoing the sidewalks and streetlamps are a given to make this happen.

As far as the roundabouts??? I'm not sure that this is the best idea. Repaving the road and adding a tree-lined median would be a better idea. I think this road needs to stay 4 lanes. Along with crosswalk and traffic light synchronization, this would work well enough.

Now, the prime spot for redevlopment is across from NC State. I agree that the number of bars should be limited, but surrounding residents shouldn't complain too much. Why live next to a college if you don't like the late-nighters and noisy kids?

[ncwebguy]

I had lunch at Porters on Monday and was amazed at what a night and day difference in foot traffic along Hillsborough Street is from, well, night and day.

The neighbors to the north of Hillsborough between approx. Dixie and Horne are the biggest NIMBYs I've ever seen. They wanted everything off Hillsborough street except the bowling alley, Brothers and Two Guys. That lead to the "pizza invasion" brought on by Amore's, i love new york pizza, and Sylvia's. They got their way and created an environment where even chains like Jersey Mikes, McDonalds, Eckards drugs, and Starbucks could not survive. Through their actions, even Brothers had to close down due to lack of customers. Traffic that would be generated by a botique movie theater (Studio I & II), good bars (Five O RIP), etc. no longer frequent the area.

A TTA stop on NC State's campus would be only a few block from the heart of this part of Hillsborough Street and lead to transit oriented design, but no one in the area, including NC State, can see the forrest for the trees. This would do a lot more than roundabouts ever could. No one I know of likes the one on Pullen.

[pack-man]

This won't happen. The city just spent about $3M on upgrading the road with turn lanes, curbing, sidewalks, etc., and besides, it runs right thru the NCSU area which isn't the proper context for a freeway. A superstreet might do the trick though.

Did i say freeway, i meant to say superstreet.

[orulz]

This won't happen. The city just spent about $3M on upgrading the road with turn lanes, curbing, sidewalks, etc., and besides, it runs right thru the NCSU area which isn't the proper context for a freeway. A superstreet might do the trick though.

A full freeway is too much, but a couple additional grade separations might do well on Western. In particular, the intersection at Avent Ferry is even on NCDOT's transportation improvement program, though unfunded. This separation will supposedly include accomodations for the NCSU people mover and a seperate pedestrian tunnel.

The bridge at Pullen is 54 years old, and is one of the "20 worst" in the state, so it could potentially be converted to a full interchange then.

I also wish the Wetern / McDowell interchange were better. I bet that, if it were built today, it would be a SPUI rather than the current space-gobbling loopy design.

In the meantime, the university is adding another signal between Dan Allen and Gorman, connecting the southern and northern segments of Varsity Drive together across Western. Interconnectivity is good, but I wonder how much traffic capacity will be affected...

[ChiefJoJo]

The neighbors to the north of Hillsborough between approx. Dixie and Horne are the biggest NIMBYs I've ever seen.

True. They really hurt development and revitalization there.

Burying the powerlines, fixing up the the storefronts, redoing the sidewalks and streetlamps are a given to make this happen.

As far as the roundabouts??? I'm not sure that this is the best idea. Repaving the road and adding a tree-lined median would be a better idea.

They are doing the above, including a median... see here

BTW, the Pullen roundabout works very well.

Edited February 23, 2006 by ChiefJoJo

[pack-man]

BTW, the Pullen roundabout works very well.

They work well for cars...however, pedestrians still have an uneasy time crossing them. Most cars don't know to yield to pedestrians, so they stand there and wait for no cars. Some times during the day that is real difficult.

This would need to be a problem considering there is way more pedestrian crossers on Hillsborough St. vs. Pullen Rd.

[bikwillie]

I think I'm going tomorrow. Anyone else??

[bdp]

i want to, but i am notorious for hitting snooze until I miss whatever I had set my alarm for on the weekends. last weekend i had to get up early to drive to brevard... so it would be REALLY nice to sleep in. we'll see... also, I am not looking forward to being harrassed by a bunch of NIMBY's at 8 am.

[orulz]

i want to, but i am notorious for hitting snooze until I miss whatever I had set my alarm for on the weekends. last weekend i had to get up early to drive to brevard... so it would be REALLY nice to sleep in. we'll see... also, I am not looking forward to being harrassed by a bunch of NIMBY's at 8 am.

I hope to show up tomorrow morning. Maybe I'll bring a sign that says "urbanplanet.org" so you'll know who I am.

Or maybe not.

[bdp]

^^this is probably TMI but last night on my way home from a friends, my 'check engine light' came on in my car, so I spent the morning at the shop, and was unable to 1)sleep in or 2) attend the meeting. this is the third weekend in a row taken up with car troubles... someone please run a red light and total this thing for me... anyway, please post something about the meeting if you ended up going. it would have been cool to meet another UP person... oh well. ; )

[BoylanHghts]

So did anyone attend the meeting? I'd love to hear an update.

I was also wondering if the neighborhood association pushed to have it so early on a Saturday morning to discourage any of the "late night party crowd" from attending. Seeing as they couldn't get out of bed early enough to make an 8am meeting on a Saturday. Just a thought.

[orulz]

I didn't manage to make it out of the door in time to get to the meeting. I'm really disappointed about it. I'm definitely interested to see the plans for the roundabouts. I'm dubious that sticking eleven roundabouts in up and down the street will have the desired effect of making the street friendlier - it will probably just make it STRANGE. I do like the roundabout at Pullen / Yarborough, and I also think a roundabout could work well at the future intersection of Oberlin and the Pullen Extension.

The streetscape improvements and undergrounding / consolidation of utilities will be very welcome. But why not just use stoplights instead of roundabouts?

I absolutely like the idea of making Hillsborough into a two-lane median-divided street with wider lanes, wider sidewalks, and better pedestrian facilities. Perhaps the roundabouts are needed because making U-turns on a two-lane street is kind of hard. But then again, U-turns wouldn't be necessary if there were fewer drivewaysI'm also dubious that Hillsborough would function at all without some further congestion mitigation in the immediate neighborhood. For example, modify the Hillsborough / Clark / Gorman / Faircloth intersection to allow all movements, and join the two non-contiguous segments of Clark. That would probably handle a good 1/3 of the traffic that would otherwise take Hillsborough. I don't think University Park folks would be too happy about that, though... up till now, Clark has been intentionally decreasing in prominence, becoming a neighborhood collector rather than a minor thoroughfare.

[Raleighsfinest]

Putting roudabouts on hillsborough street is the dumbest idea ever! It's a waste of money and extremely counter-porductive. This project really reminds me of the whole fayetteville street mall idea. It never worked. In fact it drove people away. Hillborough street is one of the only urban streets in Raleigh, that has a true function for everyday people. I'm not saying it's perfect, but to turn it into a mayberry like thoroughfare, is not going to solve anything.

[RaleighLover]

I agree that the Roundaouts are a stupid idea. If the city was wise they'd spend more money now to get everything up to par than spend only a little money which won't accomplish what's necessary and will prove in the end to have been a bad idea and they'll end up having to just rip it all up anyway.

[RaleighRick]

Any mention of a trolley line down H'borough St? If Regional Rail is not going to happen we need to address alternate transportation some other way. This seems to be the most logical place in Raleigh to start. A second line would run down Fayetteville St.

I agree, roundabouts sound cool, but would probably be a waste of money and make the situation worse.

[Damien]

If the purpose of the renovation is to control the traffic, and make the area more ped friendly then I think they should make it two lane with median, and install small speed humps nearing crosswalks, and larger ones at crosswalks which would be flush with the sidewalk kinda like the ones they installed at Crabtree several years back. Of course, the ped environment will not change unless motorists start using the information that they learned in drivers ed such as the fact that pedestrians have the right of way, or are supposed to have the right of way.