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Hillsborough Street - NCSU Area developments

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Any mention of a trolley line down H'borough St? If Regional Rail is not going to happen we need to address alternate transportation some other way. This seems to be the most logical place in Raleigh to start. A second line would run down Fayetteville St.

I agree, roundabouts sound cool, but would probably be a waste of money and make the situation worse.

starting with a direct bus route would be a positive move. When I lived at the corner of St. Mary's & H'boro, to get to Meredeth or NCSU (where my wife and I were students, respectively) via bus meant leaving over an hour before class, riding out toward Crabtree, then back downtown to change buses at Morgan Street and getting to class about 5 or 10 minutes late. When it was a straight shot down the road. How insane is that?

Yes, yes, one can ride a bike or walk, but it makes no sense not to havae straight-line bus connections.

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Here's a link to WRALs coverage of the meeting held yesterday. It says that work could begin as early as this spring. There's also a video with a few interviews, including some yahoo that wants to put in tunnels or bridges for pedestrians to cross the street. Yea, that will be cost effective. <_<

http://www.wral.com/news/7445122/detail.html

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starting with a direct bus route would be a positive move. When I lived at the corner of St. Mary's & H'boro, to get to Meredeth or NCSU (where my wife and I were students, respectively) via bus meant leaving over an hour before class, riding out toward Crabtree, then back downtown to change buses at Morgan Street and getting to class about 5 or 10 minutes late. When it was a straight shot down the road. How insane is that?

Yes, yes, one can ride a bike or walk, but it makes no sense not to havae straight-line bus connections.

CAT Route 4 heads straight down Hillsborough from the state capital to Dixie Trail; TTA takes Hillsborough from the Capital to Blue Ridge Road. In addition, in CAT's 5 year plan (which is looking like it will take 15 years to implement) calls for a route heading from NCSU westward to Wolf Village and the future West Raleigh TTA station.

Anyway, bus routes will change a lot when the rail line is in place, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

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that is funny, the guy who wants to build tunnels. he looks like he just crawled out from uner a rock, so maybe that's where he got the idea.

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Streetcars and traffic circles (not "roundabouts") were first proposed in the mid-1990's by a grad student in the SOD at NCSU. That proposal lead to the study that morphed into the nightmare with roundabouts.

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HillboroStreetText2.pdf

Edited by Phillydog

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The DH Hill Library is very unfriendly to pedestrians. If we're going to fix up Hillsboro street, we need to give it a proper lobby, like Davis in Chapel Hill, with a good entrance facing Hillsboro.

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The DH Hill Library is very unfriendly to pedestrians. If we're going to fix up Hillsboro street, we need to give it a proper lobby, like Davis in Chapel Hill, with a good entrance facing Hillsboro.
Evidently until the 90s, D.H. Hill had a proper entrance, open during daytime hours (7-7 or something, don't remember.) The entrance was in the west wing, and was housed in the area that is now a lounge with payphones and newspapers. The entrance was closed due to budget pressures (you need security at all the entrances.)

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Evidently until the 90s, D.H. Hill had a proper entrance, open during daytime hours (7-7 or something, don't remember.) The entrance was in the west wing, and was housed in the area that is now a lounge with payphones and newspapers. The entrance was closed due to budget pressures (you need security at all the entrances.)

They appear to be renovating the east branch of the building; perhaps this will have a Hillsboro entrance?

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They appear to be renovating the east branch of the building; perhaps this will have a Hillsboro entrance?
Personally, I doubt it. While the university has plenty of money for capital expansion and construction, they are in a perpetual crunch for operational cash. And if they wanted to have a Hillsborough Street entrance, why build a new one when there's already one there? If they had the will and the money to operate an entrance on Hillsborough, it could be done pretty quickly and easily.

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http://www.wral.com/news/9401793/detail.html

I hope the city does do something with this stretch of road to beautify it. It is a major gateway to downtown and the state capitol. It has Meredith, NC State and St. Mary's as addresses. This could be a real showcase area for the city. Right now it looks down right ugly IMHO. It should be an area to be proud of.

Right now, I would not be excited if I were an out-of-towner visiting any of these campuses. There is a nice little homeless camp on the exit roundabout at 440 and Hillsborough too. It is quite a welcoming site for our future Raleigh students and parents.

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this project will take a long time to unfold. There are a lot of pieces to come together, but i'm being optimistick that it will happen and be successful.

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what does it mean by "areas"? because there are more than one intersection in each of those 3 areas

The first area will be along Hillsborough Street from Gardner Street to Logan Court. The second area will be from Enterprise Street to Woodburn Road, Pullen Road from Watauga Club Drive to Oberlin Road, Oberlin Road from just north of Groveland Avenue to Hillsborough Street.

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I'm still a bit leery about the whole roundabout design from a functional standpoint.

Why not a more conventional streetscape project? I suspect the reason for the roundabouts is to construct a median to prevent jaywalking, but still accomodate U-turns on a two-lane street. Perhaps a conventional two-lane streetscape project could avoid the need for a median barrier by timing the signals to strike a balance between pedestrians and vehicular capacity. If you had to wait 20 seconds instead of 1 minute for a walk signal, you'd be much more likely to wait. They could get rid of the push-buttons while they're at it, too.

From what I've seen of the UK and Europe (not very much, really) even over there they don't use roundabouts so gratuitously in an area that's so built up. Good old-fashioned stoplights have a lot to be said for them.

At any rate, though, the aesthetic improvement on Hillsborough is a good thing.

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NCSU has no situation worked out with the shops on Hillsborough for a student discount. There IS some sort of off campus mealplan, but it isn't conducive to getting students to spend money on their campus's commercial artery.

The mealplans available tend to steer people into the cafeterias and campus restaurants, and away from real local establishments.

That's definitely one thing. It might not be the main thing, but hell if I know what it is.

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Hillsborough has a serious problem with aggressive (not physically, mind you) panhandlers. That's what dmccall is getting at.

I'd really like to see that dealt with.

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dmccall and MR2 are both right, really. There's little incentive for students to spend their money on the street....and for those business that try to appeal to customers other than students (in the likes of Fraziers and Porters), their customers are frightened by the bums.

Hillsborough Street has been treated by the city as the "red-headed stepchild" for way too long. If they got half the attention Glenwood South or Fayetteville Street has gotten, there would be a major difference.

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Here's some more info on this project: link to description and the feasibility study

I think by areas, they mean the intersections will be converted to roundabouts in those segements. The one I'm curious about is whether they are going to extend Pullen thru this parking lot to Oberlin. It's much needed due to the number of cars who travel from Oberlin to Pullen and vice-versa.

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There are some success stories on Hillsborough St. that are worth noting. Frazier's and Porter's seem to be doing pretty well if the owners were able to open a new place, Vivace, in North Hills (the times I've been into these restaurants they've always had a good crowd). El Rodeo seems always to be busy (especially any weekday lunch). There's East Village which always has a good crowd, Mitch's, Cup a Joe's, Two Guys and others.

It basically goes to having the right concept, right pricing, and right people. So I don't necessarily blame the street for most of these business's failures, but Hillsborough St.'s lack of parking, old and poorly maintained buildings may have helped in their demise. Better parking, more pedestrian-friendly features, and improved/new buildings would do wonders for this street.

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I wish they'd add Hillsborough to the routes those "Entertainment" Trolleys go too along with downtown. That'd address the parking issues some...

Although if you really think about it, parking is only a real issue during the day on weekdays. Nights and weekends, it's pretty easy really. No coins in the meters, the right lane (eastbound) becomes open to parking, and some NCSU lots (one at Brooks and another at Oberlin) are open to the public free.

Parking at Hillsborough Street really isn't that bad, unless you're too lazy to walk a couple of blocks.

Lighting? Could use some improvement.

Upgrading and maintaining older buildings? Defnitely would help.

Cleaning up garbage & graffiti? Always a good idea.

But the biggest issue is indeed people's perception of safety. Vagrants, panhandlers, etc....that's certainly an issue.

I'd like to see more foot & bicycle police along that corridor, especially at night. That would help tons!

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safety is no doubt a huge issue. while going to NC state, i had to park behind hillsborough. if i was at the library until really late, you do not at all feel safe walking one or two streets behind the street. hillsborough st is a tricky one. I've heard that the homeowner's association behind the street has a pretty big influence on what stores and restaurant/bars get opened there. seems like they are one of the few factors preventing growth on the street.

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I've heard that the homeowner's association behind the street has a pretty big influence on what stores and restaurant/bars get opened there. seems like they are one of the few factors preventing growth on the street.

NCSU students have been milling that rumor for quite a while. I think it dates back to the 1980s where those homeowners were having trouble because of a ton of bars on the street were selling cheap booze to students en masse.

I seriously doubt the homeowners have any issues with places like Fraziers, Porters, Silvia's Gelato, Global Village or other "nice" places doing well there. And I doubt they mind the mid-level or cheap eating places either. They just had a problenm with free-flowing booze to wild crazy students, and I can't blame them. Unfortunately that "crime problem" has only been replaced with another one (the vagrants, panhandlers, etc).

Thus, that just brings us back to the security problem that most people here seem to agree is the big one.

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