Hillsborough Street - NCSU Area developments

[ncwebguy]

Bookend roundabouts near the Bell Tower and Rosemary/Shepherd.... where have we heard that before?

The offset intersection near Reader's Corner and Sub Concious is a good candidate for "fixing" with a roundabout. Parking on Rosemary instead of a surface lot could make Reader's Corner feel more connected to Hillsborough Street. Customers could park on Rosemary. The repair shop on the northeast corner would not be missed.

The stretch from Rosemary to Dixie could be something, if there was enough parking *and* there was a better pedestrian link to NCSU's Cenral and West Campus. Thousands of students live in the Tri Towers and Lee/Sullivan/Bragaw area yet rarely venture to this area. They are too young to drink at the bars, and there is little else to entice them to the area other than Cup a Joe and Zaxby's.

A roundabout at Dixe could be part of phase II. A phase II could have Dan Allen closed at Hillsborough, with bus and delivery traffic only north of Yarborough. Dan Allen to Hillsborough traffic would be diverted west between the parking decks and train tracks, then north (through the existing traffic circle serving the UT and NCSU parking decks) to the Dixie intersection. Hillsborough/Dan Allen could be closed and the land south of the bus lane could be used for an office/classroom space above retail overlooking the street. Wolfline could follw the new pattern or the existing Dan Allen and then turn into the existing bus lane parallel to Hillsborough.

The lane merge on EB Hillsborough east of Arbys will get traffic ready for the roundabout zone.

[ChiefJoJo]

Raleigh City Counil will discuss the new roundabout plan today...

The plan, which would cost about $4 million, is aimed at easing traffic on one of the city's main east-west corridors, Silver said, and creating 25 more parking spaces. Part of Hillsborough Street would change from four lanes to two, with a median and occasional turn lanes.

"You have this cadre of people working on it for such a long time," Chapman said. " ... And people who are new to the issue ... don't have all that background."

Isley said he'd heard little about it until last year.

"It's amazing how quiet it was," he said. "That's the thing that's remarkable when you step back and look at this. ... There was very little lobbying done. It was pretty much just set up for a meeting to pass it or fail it."

Mayor Charles Meeker, a long-time supporter, hopes the council is closer to making a decision. He said the project will make the street safer for students, spur economic development on the north side of the street and create a new front door to N.C. State, he said.

[yankeeblue]

I too like Silver's plan. I esp. like the campaign for more parking and a use of trolleys like Portland.

^ That new roundabout plan for Cameron Village and Oberlin is rather striking. I think when looking at safety and physical beautification it is the place to start.

[ChiefJoJo]

The council approved the plan today, but I'm not sure of the details. I want to see exactly what is included in the plan. We know there will be two roundabouts near the bell tower, but what about the western roundabout at Shepard? streetscape elements? utilities buried?

[carynative]

Now that it's been approved (thank heavens!) what kind of timeline can we expect?

[ncwebguy]

The N&O story only mentions Hillsborough/Pullen and Oberlin/Pullen.

It also allows for a median to Gardner, but no west end (Sheppard) roundabout. It will use the $3 million from the road bond, and another million coming from somewhere else. I hope this creates a better tie from Cameron Village to H Street, but time will tell.

The council vote was 6-2 in approval, with Philip Isley and Thomas Craven against. I wonder what made the project agreeable with Jesse T and Mrs. Kekas...

They will probably have to do an RFP, etc. so actual construction will not start till late summer at the earliest.

[ChiefJoJo]

Full N&O article & WRAL story.

The design calls for installation of a pedestrian median and the creation of 100 parking spaces along one of the city's main east-west thoroughfares.

"I feel we've come up with a better product and that we will be dealing with more of Hillsborough Street from one end to the other," said Joyce Kekas, one of two council members whose support was key to the plan's approval.

The breakthrough Tuesday came after Mitchell Silver, the city's planning director, proposed a compromise that added 25 more parking spaces and drew the support of Kekas and council member Jessie Taliaferro. Instead of placing roundabouts at Horne Street and at Logan Court, farther down the street, Silver moved them to Pullen and Oberlin roads, both near the N.C. State Bell Tower.

Part of Hillsborough will change from four to two lanes, with a median and occasional turn lanes.

WRAL

The new plan will bury utilities in a five-block area, create more than 200 on-street parking spaces on both sides of Hillsborough Street and provide a median to help students cross the street safely. The plan is supported by N.C. State and most businesses and residents in the area.

[RaleighRob]

I'm glad this plan has went through. I look forward to seeing the results.

I just saw a photo essay in the Raleigh Chronicle (http://raleighchronicle.com/2007021903.html) that, in summary, says that all the roundabouts and medians in the world will only be a part of the solution.

The big threat to Hillsborough is the trend of neglect and decay of basic street maintenance: the grafiti, crumbling sidewalks, bad lighting, excessive panhandling, crappy landscaping, etc. I agree on this point and sincerely hope the city will remember that these are as important to the survival of the strip too.

Edited February 21, 2007 by RaleighRob

[ncwebguy]

With the Pullen "extension" to Oberlin, left turns at Enterprise/Watagua Club are not necessary. From the N&O drawing, it appears that Watauga Club goes away. Parking will be added on EB Hillsborough from Enterprise to the roundabout. If it is angled (instead of parallel), it could add even more spaces. There is enough room to do this, as the Bell Tower is far enough from the street. Making traffic go east to the roundabout to southbound Pullen will help traffic.

I do hope the west end gets its due eventually. It sounds like Kekas thinks all of the important parts of Hillsborough Street will be covered by this one project. Yet the "main stirp" of Hillsborough is west of these roundabouts. Hopefully this will have a big impact and extending the project west will be a no brainer in a few years. An early 2008 start for construction is reasonable. Could they finish this in time for the beginning of the Fall 08 semester?

[Transplant]

I like the plan. However, there is a huge opportunity missed to fix the entire strip. The Western section needs to be addressed. I have mixed feelings about roundabouts, but the western section should have one too. It would 'bookend' this section of town nicely.

Think about two huge wolf statues in the middle of these circles. There would be no mistake that Hillsborough is NCSU's front door!

Edited February 21, 2007 by Transplant

[RaleighRob]

^ Good point. Be better than those silly silver walls on Western Blvd!

[ChiefJoJo]

Yet the "main strip" of Hillsborough is west of these roundabouts.

I like the plan. However, there is a huge opportunity missed to fix the entire strip. The Western section needs to be addressed. I have mixed feelings about roundabouts, but the western section should have one too. It would 'bookend' this section of town nicely.

Think about two huge wolf statues in the middle of these circles. There would be no mistake that Hillsborough is NCSU's front door!

I saw Silver's presentation to council 2 weeks ago... the selling point for the east side was that there was not substantial parking for that area, whereas the western end does have it available (ex: nights /wknds you can park in the NCSU Dan Allen deck for free), so the thought was if you want to stimulate development, start where you can do the most good right away, and due to street parking, it's the eastern side. (Recall how long the Darryls has been empty.) Also, the Pullen/Oberlin/Hillsborough area is a traffic mess and has been for years. Starting the project here will alleviate some of those issues.

I'm sure the west side will be funded in the future, but there are not sufficient funds right now to do both.

[Jones_]

With the bell tower alongside the big traffic circle I think the area will have a cool focal point sort of feel to it...an iconic entrance to central campus, great visual bang for visitors...it might very well re-center Hillsborough St....what if tje old Cream and Bean was torn down and a 6 story apartment building with a place selling wings downstairs ended up there......it oculd put pressure on NC State to do something with what is left of its Darryls lot and maybe even the North Hall lot.

[dmccall]

I still don't understand why there needs to be a circle on Oberlin. Why not just make the road curve to the Pullen/H-boro intersection? Make the current Oberlin section in front of the Players Retreat a parking lot with right-in/right-out access to Hillsborough (remove the signal). Then close off the Groveland access to what is now Oberlin. It seems totally unnecessary to make all of the southbound Oberlin traffic navigate a quarter of a circle and northbound navigate a 3/4 turn. I'd hazard a guess that 90% of the traffic entering this circle will be doing these two moves.

map it

[RaleighRob]

^ Not a bad idea. You'd have to get all the businesses there to agree to it....BB&T, Sam & Bills, Players Retreat, and maybe whoever runs the apartments there. I dunno if they'd go along with it...it would cut off access to Sam/Bills & Player's current parking lot....but it's an interesting concept.

[ChiefJoJo]

Click image for plan of H-St at Oberlin:

Again, I think the big thing is that by including the roundabouts, you eliminate three signals in a very small area, while maintaining all access to businesses (Wachovia, Darryls, PR, etc) and Groveland. The biggest move, other than H-St thru traffic, in this area is the NB and SB Pullen to H-boro to Oberlin (& reverse) to/from NCSU/Western Blvd to Cam Village. Also any SB traffic on Oberlin wanting to head inbound on H-St (insterad of down Pullen) will make up the extra time spent navigating the roundabout by not having to wait at the Oberlin/H St signal (to be removed). The other signal removed is at Watauga Club Dr (no more access) & Enterprise (right-in-rt-out only). This intersection, by virtue of it's close proximity to Pullen/Oberlin and the fact that it handles ALL of the Wolfline bus traffic turning right, is going to make things flow much smoother for H-St. It'll take time for people to see that they are actually trading distance for lower travel time, but they'll eventually see the light.

[dmccall]

That's true, but my idea of eliminating one of the roundabouts only comes at the cost of losing Groveland access. Groveland residents have PLENTY of alternate routes, especially park drive. This is a very small price to pay for the convenience of not having to navigate an Oberlin roundabout (ie BIG pain in the rear for no reason at all). I'm all for the H st roundabout, closing of Enterprise south, and realignment of Pullen/Oberlin.

[ncwebguy]

The Oberlin/Pullen roundabout is *not* needed.

Part of the Groveland "problem" is that it is one-way *toward* Oberlin. This is to stop people from cutting through to get to Park Drive. That part of Groveland only has three driveways

- the parking lot, which could merge with the old Oberlin space to become larger and have an entrance to the "new" Oberlin curve

- the house that fraternity members caught on fire a few years ago, wrapped by the parking lot

- the house in the wedge created by Groveland and Oberlin.

The only problem is the last house, but it can be fixed by cutting Groveland off at the extended south property line of the "parking lot house", making it a two-way stub. The north part of Groveland could be two way, and the south half is sold to the parking lot ower, adding more parking spaces to the area. A building could go up at the current Groveland/Oberlin "point" with a entry/exit off "New Oberlin" to BB&T and the parking lot.

NCSU will gain spaces with closing of Watauga Club, in addition to the spaces gained by closing the southern lane of EB Hillsborough.

It is interesting that councilman Russ Stephenson's property is right on the second roundabout. I know he for the roundabouts all along, but is interesting that media has not mentioned this. A roundabout would make his property all the more valuable vs. a slight curve in the road.

Edited February 22, 2007 by ncwebguy

[ChiefJoJo]

You might be right, but...

if you eliminated the Oberlin/Pullen Ext roundabout, how would you adequately handle traffic from WB H-St to NB Oberlin (by the PR) without adding another traffic light? Also, even if you eliminated the Groveland access and could show the traffic from WB H-St to NB Oberlin would work with a yield or stop sign only, the design still might not work given you have to curve the road about 90 deg at 25-30 mph in a confined area with multiple adjecent property owners. It might seem easy enough, but it's probable that it would affect the Oberlin Bldg on the corner and I'm sure the city doesn't want to have to take any additional property if they don't have to. Some items to think about.

BTW, I don't think Stephenson's property northwest on Oberlin has anything to do with the roundabout being there.

[orulz]

You might be right, but...

if you eliminated the Oberlin/Pullen Ext roundabout, how would you adequately handle traffic from WB H-St to NB Oberlin (by the PR) without adding another traffic light? Also, even if you eliminated the Groveland access and could show the traffic from WB H-St to NB Oberlin would work with a yield or stop sign only, the design still might not work given you have to curve the road about 90 deg at 25-30 mph in a confined area with multiple adjecent property owners. It might seem easy enough, but it's probable that it would affect the Oberlin Bldg on the corner and I'm sure the city doesn't want to have to take any additional property if they don't have to. Some items to think about.

BTW, I don't think Stephenson's property northwest on Oberlin has anything to do with the roundabout being there.

Back in 2005, Jones133 wrote a post in this thread reminding us that at one point (1970s?), NCDOT planned to connect Pullen to Oberlin on a nearly straight alignment, using the Ferndell Lane right-of-way. This proposal died due to a historic house that stands in the way (interestingly, that house is the one now owned by Stephenson.) On the Wake County GIS maps, you can clearly see that most of the right-of-way for this alignment still exists. I wouldn't say we should go back to that plan, however, because the historic house is worth preserving.

The curve issue could be resolved with a much less radical realignment of Oberlin, though as you note, this would still involve more property acquisition. It would significantly effect only one parcel, including demolition of one of the buildings on that parcel - Flower Haus. The other building on the parcel, Vintage 21, is a commercial building turned into a church, and could remain. It would also take a tiny corner of Stephenson's property.

If a stop sign is insufficient to handle the traffic at the Pullen / Oberlin intersection, why not just have a second northbound lane on Oberlin? The left lane takes traffic from Pullen and the right lane takes traffic from Oberlin. Perhaps all this would still cost less to build than a roundabout?

Regarding Groveland - why not make it one-way in the other direction? Only EB cars on Hillsborough want to use it as a cut through to Park Drive in the first place. After this project, they won't even be able to turn left at Oberlin, so that connection won't exist anymore. EB Hillsborough -> Park Drive traffic will have a better option anyway (Pullen).

[ncwebguy]

It would lose a few more parking spaces, but if the Hillsborough to Oberlin connector was a mostly north route that started east of Ferndell and turned the existing Oberlin curve slightly west of south, there wouldn't be a need for stop signs. The road will be flatter as well, since the parking lot land is flatter closer to the buildings on the Oberlin/H Street corner, while Ferndell rises as it goes north. The parking lot is owned by NC State, so mulitple owners won't be affected. The NC State lot to the north of New Oberlin could incorporate Ferndell. Access to the parking lot on the northwest end of Ferndell and the house on the northeast end could be maintained, or NC State could acquire the properties. The money "saved" by constructing one less roudabout could be used for this.

Does the Player's Retreat part of Oberlin need to remain open for the fire station on Oberlin? They would have to go almost 360 degrees through the circle to get to EB Hillsborough, but anything east of St. Mary's could be handled by Peace/St. Mary's. Is that fire station in the city's long term plans or will it be merged with the one on Nash Square to another location?

WB Hillsborough to NB Oberlin traffic would use the Hillsborough Street traffic circle. The "outer" roundabout lane is made for this move. Going a half block west isn't that far. Woodburn Road already carries some traffic from WB Hillsborough to Cameron Village. The light at Woodburn will also provide gaps in WB Hillsborough traffic entering the circle. Coming from downtown, people will find the St. Mary's/Boylan corridor to Peace route is quicker.

Groveland is two way north of Benehan, so making it one way to the north from south of Benehan will make it impossible to get to the two remaining driveways that would use it.

[DPK]

Raleigh increases facade rehab grants

From Staff Reports

RALEIGH - Commercial property owners and business owners on Hillsborough Street will soon be able to seek grant rebates of up to $10,000 for facade renovation projects.

The Raleigh City Council voted unanimously last week to increase the maximum grant amount from $5,000 to $10,000 for commercial buildings in the Hillsborough Street area. City staff are expected to develop a plan to administer the program and present it to the council in April.

The new maximum grant award will be made available to property owners and business owners until construction is complete on two roundabouts planned for the Hillsborough Street area.

Under the city's Facade Rehabilitation Grant Program, Raleigh provides matching grants to businesses and property owners for facade renovation projects.

The goal of the program is to promote quality facade rehabilitation of commercial buildings downtown and in older pedestrian shopping districts.

Source: News & Observer

[tjoad]

Anyone know what's happening at the old Tao Auto Shop? That lot was repaved last week and I was wondering why.

[ChiefJoJo]

Sorry, tjoad, I moved your post over to this topic, which deals with a project that was supposed to be built there, but is stalled. The Boulevard Co probably is trying to generate some revenue from that lot on the weekends.

[ChiefJoJo]

Apparently the council is taking up the issue of funding the streetscape and roundabout project tomorrow:

5. Hillsborough Street Roundabout Funding

Council Members had received a memorandum relative to the funding of Hillsborough Street roundabouts. It was directed that the item be placed on this agenda for further consideration.

I believe the project will cost about $6M but the city bond only funded about $3M, so I believe this item is about finding the extra funds to fill the gap.