Hillsborough Street - NCSU Area developments

[Euphorius]

I live in Five Points and my partner has a part time job at Third Place. They started closing early because of several reasons. The night staff was giving stuff away to their friends, and the people hanging out there at night were not purchasing much of anything. They are talking about extending their hours again.

Back on topic...I really wish someone would do something with that empty land around the Clarion. I would even be happy with a little pocket park. As it is now it looks really bad. Dawson is taking shape further south with Park Deveraux, Dawson on Morgan, and Hue. If that area by the Clarion were more attractive, and the big hole where the Reynolds' were hoping to build something had a project actually being built there, Dawson street would be pretty snazzy...even if people fly down that street.

[cthayes75]

Yeah, that stretch of Hillsborough has a ton of potential as is. The traffic speed is also slow and conducive to pedestrians, the trees are mature and make a nice canopy, and of course its sandwiched nicely between all the other nameable districts downtown. I never could figure out what to do with the building being discussed but a coffee/sandwich shop would be a good fit I think. I had been trying to think of a good place for one between Helios and Morning Times/Port City, something with a Third Place type feel since Third Place took themselves off the map with the early closing times.

I figured a spot in The Hillsborough was the most logical place.

Kinda interesting that Second Empire makes a move on this right after the plug is pulled on The Hillsborough.

[orulz]

Back on topic...I really wish someone would do something with that empty land around the Clarion. I would even be happy with a little pocket park. As it is now it looks really bad. Dawson is taking shape further south with Park Deveraux, Dawson on Morgan, and Hue. If that area by the Clarion were more attractive, and the big hole where the Reynolds' were hoping to build something had a project actually being built there, Dawson street would be pretty snazzy...even if people fly down that street.

Last I checked, the gravel lot next to Clarion is owned by Empire Properties. Before the recession hit, they had several other projects in the pipeline already, namely the "L" building, Lafayette, and the David Allen building (across the street from [email protected]). Whenever things start looking up again, who knows whether one of the above, or something else entirely, will be their next priority. I'm hoping 'L' because that parking deck is fugly, but again, who knows.

[Euphorius]

Thanks for that tid bit Orulz. It is nice to know that an active developer owns that property, and even better that it is a local one who has done a boat load of good in downtown.

[Jones_]

I am fairly certain that gravel lot was a gas station in a former life and would require remediation (i.e pulling up the gas tanks) before anything could be built. The lot has potential like the rest of Hillsborough with Clarion, Campbell and the several condos that actually got built all nearby.

[JeffC]

I am fairly certain that gravel lot was a gas station in a former life and would require remediation (i.e pulling up the gas tanks) before anything could be built. The lot has potential like the rest of Hillsborough with Clarion, Campbell and the several condos that actually got built all nearby.

Environmental cleanup of that site has been going on for years...haven't checked lately, but they had some kind of groundwater remediation system operating there for years (you could see the machinery behind some bushes right along Dawson Street). If it isn't there anymore, it means the remediation has been completed, but it then can take years to get a final closure letter from EPA or the state Department of Environment. As you might guess, fairly difficult to get financing on a contaminated site until you get that "no further action" letter...

[RaleighRob]

Contract approved. http://www.indyweekblogs.com/citizen/2009/...reet-of-dreams/

[ncwebguy]

Did anyone go to the Hillsborough Street Renaissance Festival? It was cold and raining, but Hillsborough Street was blocked off just west of Sadlack's (forced WB traffic to Enterprise) even though it looked like only a few empty tents were still standing. Luckily the St. Patrick's Day festivities were postponed to this weekend, and should get better turnout due to better weather.

Clark was a *mess* as an east/west alternate. I hope that was partially due to the weather, confusion, and people leaving. If it is a sign of things to come during the Hillsborough Street rennovations, it is going to be a long year and change for the neighborhood.

Campbell is keeping its first floor for offices, library, lecture hall, etc. So nearby storefronts on Hillsborough, Morgan, in Hue, etc. could house supply stores, coffee shops, etc. It looks like rennovations are in full swing, but it will be pushing it to get them finished and everything moved in there in five months for a fall 09 opening. Having a diner/coffeehouse compliment to Second Empire proper and the tavern is cool, and should be a good alternative to the DD/Bruggers pair nearby on Glenwood. Outside of that, there isn't much breakfast going on till you get to IHOP on Hillsborough, Biscuit Station on Edenton, or the McDonalds (Peace and Wilmington near Shaw).

[DPK]

Did anyone go to the Hillsborough Street Renaissance Festival? It was cold and raining, but Hillsborough Street was blocked off just west of Sadlack's (forced WB traffic to Enterprise) even though it looked like only a few empty tents were still standing. Luckily the St. Patrick's Day festivities were postponed to this weekend, and should get better turnout due to better weather.

Clark was a *mess* as an east/west alternate. I hope that was partially due to the weather, confusion, and people leaving. If it is a sign of things to come during the Hillsborough Street rennovations, it is going to be a long year and change for the neighborhood.

Campbell is keeping its first floor for offices, library, lecture hall, etc. So nearby storefronts on Hillsborough, Morgan, in Hue, etc. could house supply stores, coffee shops, etc. It looks like rennovations are in full swing, but it will be pushing it to get them finished and everything moved in there in five months for a fall 09 opening. Having a diner/coffeehouse compliment to Second Empire proper and the tavern is cool, and should be a good alternative to the DD/Bruggers pair nearby on Glenwood. Outside of that, there isn't much breakfast going on till you get to IHOP on Hillsborough, Biscuit Station on Edenton, or the McDonalds (Peace and Wilmington near Shaw).

I heard the festival was kind of a bust because of the weather. Who really has a festival during March? That could have been thought threw a tad better, I'm sorry.

Campbell should definitely create some kind of development to sprout up around it. Someone will try to capitalize on those students.

[RaleighRob]

Yeah, if I was driving in that area on that day, I certainly wouldn't have used Clark as an alternative...I would go either to Wade or Western. Even if it's further, they both have better capacity. It is certainly what I plan to do during Hillsborough's renovation!

The weather was bad for the renaissance...they should try for early April next year. Would also help to avoid conflicts with Saint Patty's things.

[Jones_]

I used Clark because it jumps from Oberlin to Brooks pretty nicely....faster than Hillsborough even since there are not lights on Clark between those streets....

[ChiefJoJo]

I am really excited the city approved the H-St project. It's been a long time coming. The low bid was $9.9M, and construction will start in May and end in Sept 2010. I have also heard about a potential redevelopment project along the corridor. Stay tuned for that probably later on as the project gets underway.

[ChiefJoJo]

Here's a good bit of info from streetsblog on the benefits of road diets.

Road diets are anathema to traditional traffic engineering principles because they tend to reduce roadway capacity. However, in practice, road diets can cause vehicle speeds to readjust to a more optimal speed, increasing the throughput of vehicles per lane. For this reason, road diets sometimes reduce congestion, and generally always increase safety for all users of the roadway. Studies in Seattle found that road diets decreased the rate of crashes by 6%.

It will be interesting to see what occurs on Hillsborough St. I think it will be a catalyst for some urban redevelopment because of the more attractive streetscape and increased on-street parking supply. Vehicle speeds will decrease, peds will cross more safely, some cars will divert to the more suburban Western Blvd, and the roadway will be a much more attractive environment for bikes while moving cars more safely and efficiently.

[dmccall]

^That would probably be the smartest use of that building that I can think of. (Not just the law school, but the hotel next door...it makes sense.)

Similarly, if we ever get that downtown bookstore that we've been craving for years, the stretch of Hillsborough between Glenwood and Dawson would make a good amount of sense. Near the law school......decent on-street parking...but also plenty of empty storefronts to choose from.

A downtown brick & mortar bookstore will never, ever happen. In fact, we probably will never see any new brick & mortar bookstores ANYWHERE from here on out.

I heard the festival was kind of a bust because of the weather. Who really has a festival during March? That could have been thought threw a tad better, I'm sorry.

Campbell should definitely create some kind of development to sprout up around it. Someone will try to capitalize on those students.

...and during the ACC Tournament, too! Don't these people have any respect for our culture!

[ChiefJoJo]

Initial Hillsborough Street Project Community Meeting Set For Tuesday, April 28

Business operators, residents, students and any and all interested persons are invited to attend the first community meeting to provide information and answer questions about Phase I of the Hillsborough Street Project.

The meeting will be held from 4 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. in the Hillsborough Street Partnership offices at 2100-200 Hillsborough St. (1 Maiden Lane). The meeting will have an informal floating format that will allow for interested persons to drop by anytime within the 3 1/2-hour period.

The City has a $9.92 million contract with Hamlett and Associates, Inc. for the Hillsborough Street Project Phase I, which extends from Gardner Street to Oberlin Road.

The Hillsborough Street Project is set to break ground on May 20. The project will convert Hillsborough Street to a two-lane, median-divided facility with on-street parking on both sides, a seven-foot wide raised median, sidewalk bulb-outs at the intersections and mid-block location and several pedestrian signals. The project replaces the Hillsborough Street and Pullen Road traffic signal with a dual-lane roundabout. The project will replace the existing concrete and brick sidewalks. The project also includes the replacement of both water and sewer utilities throughout the length of the project as well as LED street and pedestrian lighting.

After years of neglect, we are less than a month away from ground breaking.

BTW, the project came in well under the estimate of $12.5M, so we are getting a nice bargain as well.

[orulz]

Apparently, the Wilmont Apartments have been condemned and the tenants have 30 days to move out.

Just, wow. That looks like it's a pretty solid building; it must have gone decades without proper maintenance to get to such a sorry state. Hope it gets fixed up rather than torn down.

[Euphorius]

Oh no! I really hope the owners fix it up. I would hate to see that building get torn down. It has such charm.

[Jones_]

This would be such an utter travesty that I think somehow someone like Hatem would step in and save them. The Wilmont is approaching landmark status with its siting, architecture and association with Hillsborough Street and NCSU. I think if the owner has spent 40,000 like he claims publicly, he may yet avert disaster on his own. Fincastle across the street is in a similar condition. Its pure crap how landlords treat their property sometimes.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Jones133

[RaleighRob]

Wilmont is about the same age as Boylan Apartments, if I recall. Boylan received a major renovation a few years ago (quite impressive, too). I'm pretty sure they spent a lot more though to get it to that level (updated appliances, central air, new fixtures, solid plaster and hardwoods). But I think it got the property listed as a city historical site, and they've gotten tax breaks to help make up for some of the renovations....as well as probably charging a bit more in rent. It's now generally considered the nicest older apartment building around.

Long story short, it can make economic sense to do good upkeep on these historical properties and keep them in good condition. Just takes the investment and willpower.

[Jones_]

Wilmont is about the same age as Boylan Apartments, if I recall. Boylan received a major renovation a few years ago (quite impressive, too). I'm pretty sure they spent a lot more though to get it to that level (updated appliances, central air, new fixtures, solid plaster and hardwoods). But I think it got the property listed as a city historical site, and they've gotten tax breaks to help make up for some of the renovations....as well as probably charging a bit more in rent. It's now generally considered the nicest older apartment building around.

Long story short, it can make economic sense to do good upkeep on these historical properties and keep them in good condition. Just takes the investment and willpower.

Yeah, I have a friend that lived in the renovated Boylan Apartments and there are much nicer. I am pretty sure Joyner Properties got it listed on the historic register and that set it up for nice tax breaks on the renovation plus annual property tax breaks. They are familiar with the process since Caraleigh Mills, which he developed with Vaughn King, went through that process a few years ago with for sale condos. All the 1930's apartment buildings on Hillsborough (Cameron, Grosvenor, Fincastle, Wilmont) Street could qualify but the process can be daunting for a small operation not familiar with the paperwork and approval process.

[DPK]

The 100% plans appear to finally be posted online:

http://www.hillsboroughstreet.org/project_...tscapePlans.htm

Survey work, tagging, and staking appear to be going on this week. Official construction start is May 20th.

[RaleighRob]

Got a haircut at Sam & Bill's yesterday and noticed crews cutting down the trees in the ncsu lot behind to get ready for the oncoming Pullen extension.

What was odd was that the staff I talked to seemed to have no idea of the huge amount of construction they're about to be almost completely surrounded by.

Edited May 12, 2009 by RaleighRob

[Jones_]

Its in full swing for sure. Trees coming down, lanes reduced etc etc. I had forgotten the plan was changed to just two round-abouts (not counting the Morgan Street one). The whole thing looks good on paper and its good to see some things happening even during the economic downturn. Maybe the bids came in good as a result...

[Euphorius]

I think the estimate came in at 12.5 million and the actual bid that won was around 9 or 10 million. They definitely got a good deal. I am so happy that it is finally starting. I wonder how long it will be before the rest of the street gets a makeover. The section that is not getting the makeover is the section that needs it the most.

[dmccall]

This has all the makings of a disaster. The point of having a one-lane road is that the series of roundabouts (with no traffic lights) would calm traffic and make it more constant. If we keep the signals west of Oberlin, then we have x1, not x2, traffic cues backing up from every red light. Each change to green means about a 3-4 second latency for each car cued before the entire cue is moving. In many cases this will take >30 seconds.

Additional delays incurred by people trying to properly parallel park (pulling even with the car in front of the empty space and then backing in) and trucks making deliveries will create a horrible scenario. In other words, it will take so long to get down Hillsborough St., that people will use alternate routes, changing their typical routes, and forgetting completely about using any businesses on the street.

While the island down the middle of the street will offer pedestrians a landing, it will actually encourage J-walking. We'll see if accident rates actually change (unless a metal fence like they have in Vegas is installed).

The Oberlin roundabout is completely unnecessary. There is absolutely no reason for Groveland to have access to Oberlin. Taking that street out of the equation affords the option of turning the existing Oberlin section (in front of the P.R.) into a parking lot that would have a "T" intersection with Oberlin. This roundabout will prove to be nothing more than another frustrating nuisance.