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Hillsborough Street - NCSU Area developments


orulz

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B&F Properties is based in Raleigh (Bowling Alley Building) since 1963

Betty Williams has owned the Brothers Pizza building since 1981

SKS Properties (Q Shack et. al) is based in Raleigh since 1985

I suspect most of the affected Hillsborough Street businesses are owned by similar folks. Few if any faceless publicly traded companies are interested in Hillsborough Street. If you have owned a building since the 80's or even 60's its paid for baring additional mortgages. So you drop the rent for two months to half, which lets the business live (one total month lost for the year), or you can let an otherwise successful place go under and spend 6-12 months refilling it, possibly having to pay for upfit since in Raleigh landlords are known to have to pony up to get good tenants...I am not in the loop, but figure if Empire owns its restaurant equipment, then others do too...maybe its even hard to get triple net leases here too...not sure

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A good argument for reduced or renegotiated lease payments (for a period of time) is... what other tenant in their right mind would open a new business in this situation? That's right, nobody. So, as much as it's the responsibility of the tenant to drum up business so they can pay rent, it's also in the interest of the owner to have someone occupying that space for a sustained period, which may prove difficult for a while.

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Weren't these businesses the biggest proponents for the H-St changes?

Some were others not so much, though all probably were supportive of some investment. It's a repeat of the Fayetteville St situation of a few years ago, only arguably worse given the recession and the annual summer student hiatus. Everyone has their own ideas of what will work and change is difficult. When you operate a business and have to generate enough revenue to pay the rent each month, it's tough to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I don't think the street rebuild is a magic bullet, but the public investment was very much in need. With the BID created to help the businesses market the street as an entity and attract private investment and keep the street clean and safe, I think it will ultimately be successful.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Some of the businesses are really trying to survive with all the construction going on.

The other night, I saw that Locopops is now doing "Buy one, get one free" special, trying to get people in the doors.

Indeed, a lot of the businesses are hanging on for dear life. Mitches is giving larger portions too in an effort to bring people back for more. They're also hosting more special events. Global Village just got a "make your own brew" coffee machine which I hear is quite delicious. It's kind of a novelty item, but it does get people coming in wanting to test it out, in turn making them buy coffee.

I heard last week from the owner of the Dunkin' on Hillsborough that they're probably not going to make it when construction work shifts to the North side of the street. Apparently they're just not making enough to break even and justify operating costs or something. Also there's a new Dunkin' just announced for the Western Blvd corridor so that's not going to help them either.

All of the coffee shops on that street are going to take a huge hit when construction shifts. The morning coffee crowd that pull over on the way to work aren't going to have that possibility.

I really feel like the city could do more to help some of these businesses out. That or the building owners could temporarily lower rental fees. I just better not hear a year from now landlords complaining they have no tenants. It'd be their dumb faults for not giving business owners a break. I still support this project 100%, it needed to be done, but only the strong (with good business sense) are going to survive it.

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Well this surely isn't helping anything:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/6093472

I've definitely seen people get towed from the lot behind I <3 NY Pizza and Dunkin' before. Sometimes I just like to go to Jimmy Johns during lunch and sit by one of the upstairs windows looking over the back lot and watch cars get picked off one by one by tow trucks.

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Well this surely isn't helping anything:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/6093472

I've definitely seen people get towed from the lot behind I <3 NY Pizza and Dunkin' before. Sometimes I just like to go to Jimmy Johns during lunch and sit by one of the upstairs windows looking over the back lot and watch cars get picked off one by one by tow trucks.

I went to State for 6 years and lived nearby for the last 17 and have never been towed. Let the mall shopping morons go somewhere else, and people that can't read have bigger problems. Granted the tow truck drivers are asses and the fees are criminal....I also happen to think that towing against your will should result in your car at a City owned lot, not a private one.....its still pretty easy for even a moderately intelligent person to not get towed.

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Well this surely isn't helping anything:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/6093472

I've definitely seen people get towed from the lot behind I <3 NY Pizza and Dunkin' before. Sometimes I just like to go to Jimmy Johns during lunch and sit by one of the upstairs windows looking over the back lot and watch cars get picked off one by one by tow trucks.

The lot behind DD is clearly marked "If you leave this property, you will be towed." It's a simple but accurate warning. I've parked there plenty of times and never had a problem, but it is rather intimidating (What if these "spotters" make a mistake?)

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All news has its negatives and positives, here's some "positive":

http://www.technicianonline.com/news/thoug...es-on-1.1931769

Construction crews are opening up more access paths through the construction zone for pedestrians in an effort to increase foot traffic for businesses. Maybe we have some construction foremen/workers reading UrbanPlanet? :)

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

As of what appears to be last night, the small roundabout on Oberlin is officially part of the new traffic configuration. It's not finished, as they still need to do some more curb work in that area and one more layer of asphalt, but you now drive around the new roundabout there instead of just awkwardly curving around and up Oberlin.

This project has progressed extremely quickly.

Edited by DPK
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  • 1 month later...

Rumor has it that Red Hot & Blue is in danger of closing and are in danger of being evicted. They are apparently doing badly business wise and have ceased paying any of their bills. This includes the dumpster that they apparently split fees w/ Player's Retreat next door which has caused bad blood between the businesses.

That corner might soon be vacant once again. Hopefully not for as long as the last time.

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I saw that. Maybe with that intersection looking better by the day, it will pick up. Speaking of looking better, I think the project is looking great. I traverse the round-about almost every day and even at rush hour it seem to be working well. The LED pedestrian level lights are a great touch for a technology oriented university too.

On a historical note, while Trolley tracks are being ripped up in front of St Mary's college, it looks like the ones under this project are staying. Especially near North Hall, the ground up pavement revealed the old tracks in numerous spots in the westbound lane (as currently marked). I thinks its interesting too that the grade of Hillsborogh Street back then appears to have to have been 6 inches and even a full foot lower than it is now.

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I saw something in the N&O about Red, Hot & Blue being in trouble, but can't find the article now. I read somewhere that the tracks they are ripping out were unfortunately causing problems with what they were doing in that area, so they had to be removed, but the pieces are going to be placed in the city museum and possibly the NC Museum of History.

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Drove by RH&B yesterday and they were closed.

I really am looking forward to seeing what Hillsborough Street looks like when it's all done. The roundabout seems like it will function well from a traffic standpoint, though it remains to be seen how it will work for pedestrians.

I like the stainless steel streetlights, but the highway-style galvanized stoplight mast arms cantilevered over the entire street from the NCSU side at Chamberlain, Pogue, and Logan look kind of enormous and out of place. Couldn't they have done something a little less overwhelming, more like what is found all over the place downtown?

My other complaint still stands: the sidwalks are too narrow at the roundabout. There's so much asphalt there and the island at the center of the roundabout is so big, couldn't they have spared an extra 2 feet for the sidewalks?

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Drove by RH&B yesterday and they were closed.

I really am looking forward to seeing what Hillsborough Street looks like when it's all done. The roundabout seems like it will function well from a traffic standpoint, though it remains to be seen how it will work for pedestrians.

I like the stainless steel streetlights, but the highway-style galvanized stoplight mast arms cantilevered over the entire street from the NCSU side at Chamberlain, Pogue, and Logan look kind of enormous and out of place. Couldn't they have done something a little less overwhelming, more like what is found all over the place downtown?

My other complaint still stands: the sidwalks are too narrow at the roundabout. There's so much asphalt there and the island at the center of the roundabout is so big, couldn't they have spared an extra 2 feet for the sidewalks?

Please, please someone post some photos of the new Hillsborough St. That's my old stomping ground, and I'm very eager to see the new streetscape....thx.

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Drove by RH&B yesterday and they were closed.

I really am looking forward to seeing what Hillsborough Street looks like when it's all done. The roundabout seems like it will function well from a traffic standpoint, though it remains to be seen how it will work for pedestrians.

I like the stainless steel streetlights, but the highway-style galvanized stoplight mast arms cantilevered over the entire street from the NCSU side at Chamberlain, Pogue, and Logan look kind of enormous and out of place. Couldn't they have done something a little less overwhelming, more like what is found all over the place downtown?

My other complaint still stands: the sidwalks are too narrow at the roundabout. There's so much asphalt there and the island at the center of the roundabout is so big, couldn't they have spared an extra 2 feet for the sidewalks?

^ Like my solution to the dangers on Dawson and McDowell (a wreck landed in the Borough patio, plus two big wrecks on Dawson took out light poles), decorative bollards might be the answer here too. I have always had a huge bone to pick with guard rails on Capital Blvd being in places to keep cars from plunging into creeks but none to keep cars from plunging into people. In the roundabout, bollards that are structurally sufficient plus with lights in them, might even look nice.....

post-4367-12655618228186_thumb.jpg

Edited by Jones133
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I like the stainless steel streetlights, but the highway-style galvanized stoplight mast arms cantilevered over the entire street from the NCSU side at Chamberlain, Pogue, and Logan look kind of enormous and out of place. Couldn't they have done something a little less overwhelming, more like what is found all over the place downtown?

I'm anti-stainless. I appreciate the utilization of LED lighting as it relates to the tech sector, but why does it always have to look so craptastic. I was really hoping that they'd go with traditional black lighting to make things seem more "friendly" in that area. This project has really been hard to peg at any point in its progress as to where they are. Unless you read the construction reports or drive the street weekly, the work that they are currently working on never matches up with the initial phase diagrams set forth. An example being how Watauga Club at Enterprise was supposed to remain open until the last phase of the project. That road's been sealed off and grassed over for months.

Not that I'm complaining that they're knocking stuff out insanely fast, it's just that I wish they'd have released better information in regards to planning. I had to send 3 emails to one of the guys on this project before they relented and posted what the final lighting structures were going to be on the Partnerships website. The lighting went absent from the streetscape rendering pdf and I was curious. Like it's some big secret or something. :P

Even then, they said that "temporary lighting" was going up first. What's up now is not temporary. I think I saw maybe 3 of those "temporary" lights go up for a week intermixed before they came down again and the current stainless models went up. I really would like to see all that stainless covered with black paint.

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I happen to be a fan of the "raw" look for two reasons. One I just like it better. Two, if the material can withstand deterioration without paint, painting something just adds another thing to keep up with maintenance wise. There are plenty of black lamposts all over the rest of downtown and I am glad to see something different. Also here a handful of pics...first couple are were on foot before my battery went dead. The others are from behind the wheel, which I understand while foolish, is not against the law.

post-4367-12655608985942_thumb.jpgpost-4367-12655619739294_thumb.jpgpost-4367-12655620038053_thumb.jpgpost-4367-12655620331637_thumb.jpgpost-4367-12655620828947_thumb.jpg

post-4367-12655621150351_thumb.jpgpost-4367-12655621446662_thumb.jpgpost-4367-12655621737823_thumb.jpgpost-4367-12655622063051_thumb.jpg

Oh, and I apologize for these pictures sucking. I didn't take the time adjust the camera for the low light or to try to get any decent angles. WIll try to do better soon.

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Pretty sure Red Hot & Blue is now closed. I've driven by the last 3-4 days and the lights/blinds are down with the "open" neon sign turned off as well.

Adding more salt to the wound, it appears Fraziers is closing as well:

http://varmintbites.com/2010/02/06/fraziers-to-close-and-reopen-as-food-centric-wine-bar/

It kind of pisses me off that the landlords of these businesses aren't cutting anyone any slack in a crap economy with all this construction going on. It's not like this street has a lot of success stories that you'd think they'd be able to justify high rents.

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Pretty sure Red Hot & Blue is now closed. I've driven by the last 3-4 days and the lights/blinds are down with the "open" neon sign turned off as well.

Adding more salt to the wound, it appears Fraziers is closing as well:

http://varmintbites.com/2010/02/06/fraziers-to-close-and-reopen-as-food-centric-wine-bar/

It kind of pisses me off that the landlords of these businesses aren't cutting anyone any slack in a crap economy with all this construction going on. It's not like this street has a lot of success stories that you'd think they'd be able to justify high rents.

um, I don't think it's a landlord issue w/the Jennings reopening at the same location...

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um, I don't think it's a landlord issue w/the Jennings reopening at the same location...

I never said it was. Was generalizing to the street itself. Regardless, the issue is still financial for why they are closing the existing business. Money still has to be paid to those owed.

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