Hillsborough Street - NCSU Area developments

[Green_man]

Similar to 2304, 1301, 2604, & 2811 Hillsborough St and 105 Friendly apt buildings.... another is being planned for 2812 Hillsborough (J&J Auto building at corner of Bagwell).

Proposed ground floor retail space and 4 levels of apartments above.  Currently zoned for max 4 floors so they will have to go through rezoning process.  Proposed 25 apartments.  New City Design is the architect for this one as well.

[DPK]

This forum really is lacking game lately when City-Data beats it with development blurbs these days.  Saw this on Facebook yesterday and City-Data this evening.  Might as well throw it up on here too at this point.

Target potentially slated to replace the bowling alley on Hillsborough Street:
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2016/09/30/target-raleigh-hillsborough-street.html

[Green_man]

11 hours ago, DPK said:

This forum really is lacking game lately

Complains about not enough posts.  LOL.  Then post more.  Or add comments more.  Easy.

11 hours ago, DPK said:

Target potentially slated to replace the bowling alley on Hillsborough Street:
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2016/09/30/target-raleigh-hillsborough-street.html

Sad.  Would've preferred they take an unused location rather than one that is extremely vibrant already.  NCSU master plan shows a parking deck to replace the lot next to North Hall.  A Target on the ground floor would've help span the retail gap at this stretch of Hillsborough.  Or the parking lot at Brooks and Hillsborough.

[Green_man]

Damn... site plan submitted for a new apartment building at the location of the 2 old brick apartment buildings at 105/107 & 113 Chamberlain St.

http://raleighpublicrecord.org/news/development-beat/2016/10/03/development-beat-the-next-chapter-for-113-chamberlain/

3 story building with ground floor parking.  I know the apartments are basically student slums but its a huge loss of character for the neighborhood.

[orulz]

Ita seems that the rumor about Target building a store where Western Lanes/The Alley is may be legit; TBJ is reporting a pretty plausible scenario involving Sandman, a local developer. The owners of The Alley also mention that they have their own "exciting plans" in the works so I'm hoping it means an updated bowling alley will be part of the project as well somehow. Sandman is also involved in the mixed use complex on Franklin Street in Chapel Hill that will include a Target, so I would not be surprised if this one were part of a mixed use building as well. What is the UDO zoning classification on that part of Hillsborough? CX-5-SH?

In other news 102 Logan Ct and 113 Chamberlain, about a block north of Hillsborough Street, are planned for 81 and 42 apartments respectively in three story buildings with parking on the ground level. This one I have mixed feelings about. I like the density and am perfectly aware that one dimensional redevelopment only directly facing Hillsborough is not enough to transform the city. However, this will take the place of a few historic bungalows and rooming houses, none of which look immaculately maintained but are nice nonetheless. I was willing to take this in Stanhope but here on the edge of University Park it is a little harder. I don't want to convey the message that all detached dwellings are sacrosanct but I can't help but feel that these ones are a bit exploitative. They appear(?) to be development by right and if they turn out to be hideous it could potentially trigger a backlash that leads to scaling back or gutting the form based UDO... I hope that doesn't happen!



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[Green_man]

This sucks!  The city spends all this money and time on planning documents for the Hillsborough and Cameron Village area.  Recommendation was to concentrate growth on Enterprise St. where there is no character at the bank and bland office buildings so that the existing neighborhood feel could be maintained.

And almost immediately, the exact opposite is proposed.  I get that it's the developer's right, but still.  Disappointing.

[Jones_]

This is infuriating. The Chamberlin ones were just remodeled and renting at pretty high prices. Not slums at all. I've had it. I'll be approaching the developer directly as well as council members. 

[Jones_]

1 hour ago, orulz said:

Ita seems that the rumor about Target building a store where Western Lanes/The Alley is may be legit; TBJ is reporting a pretty plausible scenario involving Sandman, a local developer. The owners of The Alley also mention that they have their own "exciting plans" in the works so I'm hoping it means an updated bowling alley will be part of the project as well somehow. Sandman is also involved in the mixed use complex on Franklin Street in Chapel Hill that will include a Target, so I would not be surprised if this one were part of a mixed use building as well. What is the UDO zoning classification on that part of Hillsborough? CX-5-SH?

In other news 102 Logan Ct and 113 Chamberlain, about a block north of Hillsborough Street, are planned for 81 and 42 apartments respectively in three story buildings with parking on the ground level. This one I have mixed feelings about. I like the density and am perfectly aware that one dimensional redevelopment only directly facing Hillsborough is not enough to transform the city. However, this will take the place of a few historic bungalows and rooming houses, none of which look immaculately maintained but are nice nonetheless. I was willing to take this in Stanhope but here on the edge of University Park it is a little harder. I don't want to convey the message that all detached dwellings are sacrosanct but I can't help but feel that these ones are a bit exploitative. They appear(?) to be development by right and if they turn out to be hideous it could potentially trigger a backlash that leads to scaling back or gutting the form based UDO... I hope that doesn't happen!



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This would start to realize my worst fears of ripping out the entire area between Hillsborough St and Cameron Village for mediocre student apartments. This is exactly the opposite of what the University and City wanted when the re-did Hillsborough St.....you want to see student gehtto? Wait 20 years for this area to stop being maintained properly after another company takes over management. Like poverty, you can't cluster all the students in one area and think there won't be negative side effects. Don't get me wrong...I was a student at State and lived in this exact area...but we were dispersed among the home owners in the area, kept our parties mostly quiet etc. All the huge keggers were down on Gorman and Avent Ferry where you only had students around you. 

[DPK]

13 hours ago, Green_man said:

Complains about not enough posts.  LOL.  Then post more.  Or add comments more.  Easy.

 

I did, that's the point, lol.  

[Jones_]

I swear I will take a picture day wit ha decent camera and post some stuff sometime before christmas. Time and energy are in short supply though, with this silly marathon I signed up for as a way to deal with being a 40 something...

[Jones_]

And there it goes, all of Maiden Lane in one full swoop. So many victorian houses wiped clean off our limited inventory all at once for more absolute crap. I don't even have to see the proposal to tell you it'll be absolute crap. If you try to frame this as "progress" I will give you a virtual beat down...

[Green_man]

Attached image:  yellow:  recently completed or under construction redevelopments.  red:  recently announced. 

Wow. Hillsborough St area is going to be unrecognizable.  I'm just glad the owner of the PR fought off developers for his property.

[orulz]

On the subject of redeveloping the neighborhood: I'm not 100% opposed to it. However, I'd at least like to see some of the houses moved and preserved if possible. I just hope this development isn't utter crap. It should be something worthwhile in my opinion. "401 Oberlin" and "Berkshire Cameron Village" aren't perfect but something of that scale would be about right.

I've long thought that the intersection of Oberlin and Clark is the most convenient and walkable urban location in the whole city, given the amenities within short walking distance. (University, Hillsborough Street, Pullen Park, Harris Teeter, Fresh Market, Cameron Village...) so this certainly has the potential to be a pretty big deal. I wouldn't mind seeing some reconfiguration of the street grid in the area to improve the connection of Hillsborough Street to Cameron Village as well.

Click to view my rather "scorched earth" strawman proposal for doing this...

[Green_man]

Same developer behind this proposal in Chapel Hill.  http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/community/chapel-hill-news/article86851007.html  Apparently they are not deterred from the area by the nimbyism in Chapel Hill.  

And speaking of nimbys... the current zoning for these lots:

• Maiden lane & Enterprise house lots are zoned RX-3 (residential mixed use 3 floor limit)
• Office building on Enterprise and two lots on Oberlin are zoned OX-3. (office mixed use 3 floor limit)

Although this might've all changed with the City's recent small area master planning.  All this to say... they will likely go through a rezoning process... which means there will be fights with Cameron Park and University Park neighbors.

[Jones_]

Well Orulz, Clark/Oberlin has plenty of stuff I'd rather see ripped out like the BOA, a crummy 1970's quad apartment and that real estate office building facing Oberlin. The whole north third of that triangle is available if you pry loose those parcels. Since this project can't front Clark it doesn't improve the urban environment at all in my opinion no matter the objective points. 

I should remind everyone this is a National Register historic district. Those don't get slapped on any old areas. Every one of these should be saved. 

Also your map is very much a throwback to actual proposals in the 70's. The Ferndell connector was fiercely fought and eventually removed entirely from the planning maps. It was part of the city wide plan that included making a freeway out of Western Blvd and connecting that to the north-south freeway through Oakwood. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Jones_

[orulz]

I do see your point and am certainly not advocating bulldozing everything flat.

That said, if preservation of the quality homes can be achieved, by moving them elsewhere where they can help enhance another neighborhood (say, Oberlin Village or the non-historic district eastern part of Oakwood), and if the redevelopment follows the lead of Berkshire and 401 Oberlin by having lots of retail and not being a student ghetto, and connectivity between Hillsborough and Cameron Village is improved as a result, I would see it as a win-win-win-win in a way.

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[Green_man]

23 hours ago, Jones_ said:

Clark/Oberlin has plenty of stuff I'd rather see ripped out like the BOA, a crummy 1970's quad apartment and that real estate office building facing Oberlin. The whole north third of that triangle is available if you pry loose those parcels. Since this project can't front Clark it doesn't improve the urban environment at all in my opinion no matter the objective points. 

I hope this project would create urban frontage on Enterprise to connect CV to Hillsborough St.

I agree, that Clark-Oberlin-Enterprise area should be redeveloped too.  But I like the idea of two separate developments rather than a monolithic mega development.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Is there a place and need for a new bowling facility in downtown Raleigh?

[DPK]

7 hours ago, DwnTwnRaleighGuy said:

Is there a place and need for a new bowling facility in downtown Raleigh?

If the existing alley closes by NCSU I think there'd be a potential need.  You'd have a "bowling hole" on the map and I think you'd get demand from students, bowlers, and the late night crowds.

[Tenkai]

The Alley, that NCSU landmark and institution, is moving to Durham.

[orulz]

I agree with the bowling hole notion especially since Capital Lanes on Capital Blvd ITB closed several years ago. Proximity to NCSU is a huge plus but it doesn't have to be Hillsborough Street. Parts of Mission Valley are ripe for mixed use redevelopment and will be even more so with BRT on Western Blvd.

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[Jones_]

As you can see my concerns are not unique. They temporary halt is currently in effect. Petition comments echo my rancor 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Jones_

[Green_man]

Regarding Target store at bowling alley building... more info and rendering from N&O:  http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article112275287.html

[orulz]

Regarding Target store at bowling alley building... more info and rendering from N&O:  http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article112275287.html

Comments:
1. Holy branding Batman. That Target logo is a bit over the top, don't you think?
2. That said, this is a massive improvement over the current look of the building.
3. I hope the downstairs remains leasable by other tenants. The building is 23000ksf per floor so seems likely.
4. If CVS is going to be inside the Target, then what of the CVS in Stanhope, less than half a mile west? Will it close? Will they both stay open? To me it seems they should focus on the Targety retail items and let the standalone CVS handle the Pharmacy end of things. The other possibility would be to close the standalone CVS and replace it with something else- Aldi or Trader Joe's would be about the right size.

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[Green_man]

Saw these two renderings posted by the Hillsborough St. non-profit group.

113 Chamberlain is the .62 acre site behind Chipotle.  102 Logan is 1.1 acre site behind Brueggers.

Other interesting news to keep an eye on... BB&T across from Players Retreat is closed.